Transport Minister says NO to speed limit increase

[iFly55]

The Canadian Press Posted: Apr 18, 2012 1:17 PM ET Last Updated: Apr 18, 2012 5:37 PM ET

Ontario's Liberal government is flatly rejecting calls to raise the speed limit on the province's 400-series highways.

Bob Chiarelli says the province has no plans to increase the speed limits on the 400-series highways.

The group stop100.ca wants the maximum speed on those highways increased to 120 or even 130 kilometres an hour, saying 100 km/h is one of the lowest speed limits in the world.

However, Transportation Minister Bob Chiarelli says speed is a factor in 20 per cent of fatal car accidents in Ontario, so the province will not be increasing the highway speed limit.

He said the government "is not inclined in any way, shape or form to increase the speed limits on Ontario roads."

Chiarelli also rejects suggestions that everyone already drives 120 kilometres an hour on highways, and said police are kept busy issuing tickets to drivers caught going that fast.

He added Ontario has the safest roads in North America and intends to keep that record by maintaining the current speed limits.


http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/video/201375

http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/video/201410

[the27thelement]

Gee, what a suprise.

[Kuma]

http://www.motorists.org/press/monta...safety-paradox

[OpenGambit]

Exactly the way that reasonable people predicted.

I would also note that turbo effectively predicted all of their reasons for rejecting it.

[DoubleJ]

Haha, Chiarelli obviously doesn't travel the major highways much. 120 is the norm and a blind eye is used by the OPP unless you are being a dumb squid or just a stupid cage operator.

[viper84737]

What a surprise. Ontario rejects a good idea, effectively keeping intelligence, fun, efficiency, increase in quality of life, and advancement as far regressed as possible.

Congratulations!

[turbodish]

http://www.motorists.org/press/monta...safety-paradox

Comparing predominately-rural, sparsely-populated and sparse-traffic-density Montana with the GTA or even most of southern Ontario is pointless. Even the supposed "paradox" is a lie when you look at longer term trends in Montana. Besides, you might want to look at the Montana thing again over a span of years.

Montana speed limits were repealed in Dec 1995 and were not reinstated until the end of 1999. That's 4 years of no posted speed limit.

Prior to those 4 years, Montana together with most other US states was enjoying a steadily declining per vehicle mile travelled (VMT) fatality rate. When speed limits were tossed out in Montana, that rate started climbing again, while the rest of the US continued to decline. See PDF page 28 at http://www.mdt.mt.gov/publications/d...rrent_chsp.pdf , specifically "Chart III-1 Fatality Rate Montana versus US" for the 38-year trend lines for Montana and the rest of the US. The spike in Montana's trend line coinciding with the removal of the speed limit is fairly obvious.

There are also tables on the two pages before the chart mentioned above. From Tables III-1 and III-2, during the time of no speed limits the average number of Montana fatalities (2nd column) and injuries (3rd column) per 100 million VMT were as follows:

1996  2.10      112
1997  2.84      115
1998  2.50      106
1999  2.25      107
Avg   2.4225    110

Speed limits were reimposed for year 2000. The fatalities per 100 VMT for year 2000 was 2.4 which was slightly more than the immediately preceding year, but less than the average for the previous 4 years with no speed limits.

Looking at the next 4 years with newly-imposed speed limits, the average for fatalities dropped slightly (around 4%) , and the average for injuries dropped significantly (about 19%).

2001   2.30      90
2002   2.57      96
2003   2.40      88
2004   2.04      83
Avg    2.3275    89.25

Unlike your claim, apparently those signs were in fact about safety.

With respect to Ontario's signs and speed limits, while you can whine about how unreasonably low they are, they are in fact at or reasonable close to the average for the north-east part of the North American continent. Ontario also has the best per km driven traffic safety record in all of North America. There is simply no political upside to raising speed limits in Ontario.

[Tango5]

...
Unlike your claim, apparently those signs were in fact about safety.
...

Well you have to admit turbodish, it's a stretch to imply causality on that data alone. There are many other things that happened from 2000 to 2004 and beyond, namely vehicles having many safety features implemented and a much greater awareness by consumers of those safety features. What would be fair to say is that we don't know to what extent, if any, the reduction in speed (assuming there was a reduction) was the reason for the reduced injury rates.

As an example under the heading -Motor Vehicle Safety- the CDC states;


"Motor vehicle crashes are among the top 10 causes of death for U.S. residents of all ages and the leading cause of death for persons aged 5--34 years (30). In terms of years of potential life lost before age 65, motor vehicle crashes ranked third in 2007, behind only cancer and heart disease, and account for an estimated $99 billion in medical and lost work costs annually (31,32). Crash-related deaths and injuries largely are preventable. From 2000 to 2009, while the number of vehicle miles traveled on the nation's roads increased by 8.5%, the death rate related to motor vehicle travel declined from 14.9 per 100,000 population to 11.0, and the injury rate declined from 1,130 to 722; among children, the number of pedestrian deaths declined by 49%, from 475 to 244, and the number of bicyclist deaths declined by 58%, from 178 to 74 (33,34).
These successes largely resulted from safer vehicles, safer roadways, and safer road use. Behavior was improved by protective policies, including effective seat belt and child safety seat legislation; 49 states and the DC have enacted seat belt laws for adults, and all 50 states and DC have enacted legislation that protects children riding in vehicles (35). Graduated drivers licensing policies for teen drivers have helped reduce the number of teen crash deaths (36)." - http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6019a5.htm


As far as I am concerned, I would much rather have a strictly enforced 120 or 130Km/h limit on 400 series highways over the nudge-nudge wink-wink 120km/h sham we have now. LEOs shouldn't have to decide when some arbitrary line has been crossed, and I shouldn't have to be in a position where a pass at 10km faster than all the cars doing 120 nets me a 30 over ticket.

[viper84737]

Do they strictly enforce the speed limits in Europe? Or on the Autobahn, for example? (Yes for much of the Autobahn network there is a speed limit)

[invictus43]

Do they strictly enforce the speed limits in Europe? Or on the Autobahn, for example? (Yes for much of the Autobahn network there is a speed limit)

In my experience, it's pretty much like here. They do have two levels of infractions though..they have the traffic polizei and they do the regular traffic stuff. They also have a criminal polizei that do more serious traffic incidents, like road-rage..which they take very seriously. And they have blitzes in response to incidents..for instance, they have their own "Forks of the Credit" type of situation where bikes to stupid things on the Deutsche Alpenstrasse or such..and they'll do hard-core blitzes on those roads in response to significant rises in accidents or idiots..

[Brian P]

Do they strictly enforce the speed limits in Europe? Or on the Autobahn, for example? (Yes for much of the Autobahn network there is a speed limit)

Yes, frequently using speed cameras. BUT ... Motorways are mostly 120 - 130 km/h limit depending on country, Germany uses variable speed limits (or not) on autobahns depending on traffic and weather conditions, UK is in the midst of increasing their motorway speed limit from 70 to 80 mph (about 130 km/h). Rural roads are mostly 90 - 100 km/h and they're not exactly the straight and boring kind we have here.

It's no surprise that the Ontario gov't rejects any increase in speed limit. It would cost money to do, it would reduce the number of tickets the police would write, and they've got the "speed kills" mentality firmly ingrained. Anyone who thinks the 100 km/h limit has any basis in reality hasn't done any driving on those roads lately.

[viper84737]

I especially liked how the Minister of Transportation described his driving habits. He sets the cruise control to 100 km/h on the highways and 40 km/h on residential streets. What a tool.

1) Nobody, and I mean NOBODY sets their cruise control on residential streets, so he's either a liar or an idiot or both.
2) Nobody likes the clown going 100 km/h on the highway. Not even other clowns going 100 km/h on the highway. I'm starting to lean towards "he's an idiot" more than anything else. Granted, being in office it means he's obligated to pretend he breaks no laws so he can justify holding the rest of us to them. Tool it is.

[slowbird]

Why not raise it to atleast 110 like other provinces?

Hell, when I was in Texas last year one of the Interstates I was on had a limit of 80mph!!!

[AF4iK]

Comparing per-km safety records is meaningless when the population of one country is ten times greater than the other. I know Turbo was referring to Ontario and not Canada at large but just wanted to point out that such statistics are intended to deceive. A country with population 1 would easily have the world's best per-km safety record, even if that single citizen had a fatal crash (100% on-road mortality rate).

For the record, I'm not for or against changing the speed limit (though I'd love to drive on faster highways).

[OpenGambit]

Comparing per-km safety records is meaningless when the population of one country is ten times greater than the other. I know Turbo was referring to Ontario and not Canada at large but just wanted to point out that such statistics are intended to deceive. A country with population 1 would easily have the world's best per-km safety record, even if that single citizen had a fatal crash (100% on-road mortality rate).

For the record, I'm not for or against changing the speed limit (though I'd love to drive on faster highways).

I don't think you understand the per km driven stat.

[viper84737]

I don't think you understand the per km driven stat.

He's right, though. While mortality of population is normalized to a per-Km driven basis, it's not a linear relationship at all.

[Venom01]

We all do 120kph when traffic allows anyway. So what's the point? Heck, when I come back from the cottage down hwy 11 people are averaging 130-140kph. I think they are concerned if they raise the limit people will go even faster then that. Seeing how the 400 series barley move anyhow I think we are adjusting and governing our own speed just fine. What I would like to see is people driving in their proper lanes while on the highway and to stop driving 2 feet off of everyone's bumper. If we could do that I know that traffic would move quicker and within h FAR less accidents.

This is my signature

[Rob MacLennan]

If they ever do increase the 400-series highway speed limits it would have to apply only outside of population centres, would have to be rigorously enforced, and police would need to start enforcing areas of the HTA that they currently seem to steer well clear of (lane discipline, signalling, etc.).

[viper84737]

Uh-oh, here's another good idea for Ontario to shoot down for some stupidity-oriented reason or another:

Have traffic-density-based speed limits. Traffic starts getting congested (which they track in real-time so easily already), and a little LED sign changes from "130 km/h" to "120 km/h", and then to "110 km/h". The cost of this should be no higher than installing street lights, as they don't have to be every 100 meters. Put them every 2 km or something, one sign, powered by a battery that charges via solar panels so you don't have to install expensive wiring all over the city, and have the numbers changed via radio signal.

Technology. Use it.

[Brian P]

^ German autobahns use the same type of LED sign boards that many 400-series roads here already do. The current restrictions (usually the speed limit) is displayed on those.

I saw the posted limit on the autobahn indicated at 80 km/h at one point, during torrential rain with poor visibility ...