Convictions on insurance record

[GateKeeper]

I am 99% sure this is a young male.
And you wonder why their insurance is so high.
Until the immaturity and stupidity go away this is what insurance companies see and the aftermath if he crashes.
This video was posted on another thread in case you missed it.
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/daily...3.html#more-id

fine, nail his ***** to the wall with high insurance,,,,but why nail me if I am the father of that young man,

as I said, my young son is quoted 3000 a year for insurance, and because he lives with me, and I have a mc license, my rates went from 600 a year to 3000 as well, just because he is now a motorcycle rider and has his mc license, and live in my house, yet he has not been convicted of anything, has never crashed a bike, heck, he hasn't even ridden one, but I get jacked for 2400 dollars a year more....

this is right ??????



just wait and see how this poor guy is going to react when his insurance gets renewed and his rates go up.....

http://www.gtamotorcycle.com/vbforum...sticker-ticket!!!

.

[Corey McNeely]

If the MTO removes it from their records so should the insurer. Is the policy not based on the driving record which is held by the ministry? Did they not change the policy based on the conviction of the MTO record?. Yes they did so they cared about that, did they not.
Why would they not also remove it at 3 years other than they could capture additional revenue.

-1[/QUOTE]

It works both ways. Ticket surcharges are not added until the renewal. Therefore if your policy runs from July - July and you get a ticketor an accident your rate wouldn't change until your renewal.

GateKeeper - There are a whole bunch of reasons why insurance is more expensive in Ontario compared to other provinces, the biggest being Accident Benefits. Also most of the tickets you mentioned are not surcharged by the insurance company. I am not sure I can explain it any better than Viffer, but a seatbelt ticket can directly effect claim cost, therefore you should be charged more. As would a fail to stop, speeding, failure to remain at an accident, etc....

If you don't want to pay the high rates for your son, then don't have him drive it. Driving a motorcycle is not a right, its a luxury that some can afford and others can't.

[Kedo]

It works both ways. Ticket surcharges are not added until the renewal. Therefore if your policy runs from July - July and you get a ticket or an accident your rate wouldn't change until your renewal

In fairness I will concede to that statement.

[GateKeeper]

If you don't want to pay the high rates for your son, then don't have him drive it. Driving a motorcycle is not a right, its a luxury that some can afford and others can't.

It's not about the cost for the son.......please read.....

I have had a mc license for a very long time, my rate was quoted for 600 bucks a year. My son decided to get his mc license this year, he was quoted 3000 bucks a year.....

so far your with me right...

now comes the kicker

I call the insurance and say I want to insure the son on his own bike, yes sir that will be 3000 dollars, OK no problem, and by the way I want insurance on my bike as well,,,,no problem sir, that will be 3000 grand for you as well

now do you get it....

why did my insurance go up 2400 dollars.......

at this point I cannot even get cheaper insurance because he lives in the house and has a mc license, only way might be is to have that form signed that he will not ride a motorcycle......

and this is fair ????

[macrider]

I get it, that is not fair at all.

[VifferFun]

Exactly the insurance companies only look at their pocket book, nothing else, if you didn't then a seat belt ticket wouldn't and shouldn't have any effect on premiums, if you don't like that one, then lets go for any other conviction, like failure to have papers on person

and you tell me why my son should pay the 3000 bucks a year, young, no experience, and all that stuff, but what you didn't tell me is why is my rate is right up there with his......? why am I dinged the same.......I am not young, inexperienced, but you insure all riders the same amount based on the worse case.......even if there were 4 of in the house, all would pay the 3000 a year, because of the newest rider.........

that right there is wrong...............as I said Insurance companies are nothing short of legal extortionists...............

Yes, insurance companies care about their pocketbooks, and I have never denied that. Like any rational business, we strive to make a profit. In order to profit, we have to be sure that we charge the most accurate premium for a risk as we can:

• If we undercharge (eg. charge someone $1000 for an expected loss of $1500) then we will attract this unprofitable business from competitors and go bankrupt
• If we overcharge (eg. charge someone $1000 for an expected loss of $500) then we will lose this profitable business to competitors and go bankrupt

Your premium is not the same as your son's -- for your risk you are being charged $600 but for your son's risk you would be charged $3000. If you don't want to pay $3000 due to your son being in the household, you can easily exclude him from your policy with an OPCF28a endorsement and pay $600/yr (but in this situation, your son cannot ride the bike as he is not insured). Yes, this is fair. If your son is going to ride the bike, then we need the premium to cover that. Unfortunately, since people used to take advantage of the situation and pretend like their sons were "occasional" operators (when indeed they rode the bike the majority of the time), insurance company automatically assign the highest-rated operator as the principal.

[VifferFun]

Viffer, I understand most of your logic and find you very informative and although I don't necessarily agree with it, unfortunately it is the way the insurance industry operates.
As far as not caring, they should and that is the point I believe. It should be 3 years from date of conviction as that is the date that matters not renewal.
If the MTO removes it from their records so should the insurer. Is the policy not based on the driving record which is held by the ministry? Did they not change the policy based on the conviction of the MTO record?. Yes they did so they cared about that, did they not.
Why would they not also remove it at 3 years other than they could capture additional revenue.

If they want to be transparent and not appear to be extortionists (they kind of are as you cant drive without insurance so its not really an option and why some people have to pay ridiculous amounts) they should just change it so all convictions stay on you file for 4 years to ensure it clears the policy renewal date. To gouge for the sake of a month is just wrong I am sorry. I am well aware of insurance fraud and other factors as I have many friends in the industry but this is all about the revenue unfortunately.

-1

I already explained this in detail -- you are surcharged for three years. Although you may pay for 10MO after the conviction dropped off your record, there was 10MO when you had a conviction but paid no surcharge at all. Look at the example I gave above more carefully, as this method works to YOUR benefit.

You driving history is a snapshot as of the renewal date, and does not change until your next renewal date. If you are in a collision or have a conviction, you rate won't be increased until your renewal date, whether that's tomorrow or 364 days away.

[VifferFun]

go price insurance in other provinces and then, come back and tell me what you think about our insurance rates here in Ontario

I read what is replied, and it's the same crap they have been spewing for years

and like I said if you don't want to use the seatbelt one, pick any other, no front plate, tint is too dark, and the list can go on

I price insurance in ALL Canadian Provinces, even those with Gov't programs (since we're able to offer optional coverages for cheaper than the Gov't insurers can). The pricing methodologies are identical between provinces -- the difference is the coverage levels, legal environments, and claim patterns. People in Ontario claim much, MUCH more than any other province which is why their insurance premiums are higher. As an example, it takes an Ontarian 13 times longer to heal from a collision than a British Columbian. Are Ontarians weak, or perhaps we're taking advantage with the help of some crafty lawyers?

[Corey McNeely]

Yeah I follow you. You also didn't explain it that way in your first post, so that could be why.

The insurance company should not be double charging you if your son has his own bike policy. I would call them back and discuss with them. You pay the $600 rate and he pays $3000/yr. Maybe there was a communication problem there.

[VifferFun]

It's not about the cost for the son.......please read.....

I have had a mc license for a very long time, my rate was quoted for 600 bucks a year. My son decided to get his mc license this year, he was quoted 3000 bucks a year.....

so far your with me right...

now comes the kicker

I call the insurance and say I want to insure the son on his own bike, yes sir that will be 3000 dollars, OK no problem, and by the way I want insurance on my bike as well,,,,no problem sir, that will be 3000 grand for you as well

now do you get it....

why did my insurance go up 2400 dollars.......

at this point I cannot even get cheaper insurance because he lives in the house and has a mc license, only way might be is to have that form signed that he will not ride a motorcycle......

and this is fair ????

Simply get your son to sign this form, give it to your insurer, and your MC premium will remain at $600/yr:
http://www.fsco.gov.on.ca/en/auto/au.../a-03_05-1.pdf

Your son won't be able to ride your bike though.

[Flywheel]

As an example, it takes an Ontarian 13 times longer to heal from a collision than a British Columbian. Are Ontarians weak, or perhaps we're taking advantage with the help of some crafty lawyers?

Well many of them seem to think Newton's Laws Of Motion are optional, just like stop signs and the speed limit, so anything's possible.

[PLau]

Like Viffer said, get that form and exclude your son from your policy and save yourself $2400 per year.
Your son will have to pay high rates regardless due to the fact that he's new.

[murf]

It goes like this....

My last ticket expires June 10 this year, that is 3 years to the day of conviction, my renewal on my insurance is May 6th of this year,,,,guess what, ticket will still be counted against me and will not drop off until May 6th of 2013.......so I get to pay higher premiums for an extra year, I asked and they will not take the conviction off my insurance even though it's only a month after renewal

Bloody Extortionists.......these insurance companies are....

..

After your ticket falls off the record, cancel your insurance and go to a different company. When they pull your abstract they won't see that ticket?

[VifferFun]

After your ticket falls off the record, cancel your insurance and go to a different company. When they pull your abstract they won't see that ticket?

That is correct.

[murf]

That was easy!

[KrazyBones]

It goes like this....

My last ticket expires June 10 this year, that is 3 years to the day of conviction, my renewal on my insurance is May 6th of this year,,,,guess what, ticket will still be counted against me and will not drop off until May 6th of 2013.......so I get to pay higher premiums for an extra year, I asked and they will not take the conviction off my insurance even though it's only a month after renewal

Bloody Extortionists.......these insurance companies are....

the only justice in this scenario is, they didn't know about the ticket for the first 2 years, no checks by them as nothing changed, so I guess sometimes the little guy sticks it to them as well..............

next time you get a ticket (minor) and it's reduced, and your told " I am being nice, I reduced it, no points just a fine" ya right,,,,yes your going to pay the ticket amount, but your also going to pay higher premiums for the next 3 years, how do they justify (insurance companies) making me pay for something for 3 years......this includes seatbelt tickets, failure to provide necessary documents, and any and all small so called tickets......

i may switch insurance if that's the case if the price difference is huge. As in SF wants to keep charging me 100 dollars more a month for 6 months because of their renew schedule... i assume if i change insurance companies i can avoid this?

[KrazyBones]

That is correct.

that is what i think i will do.

Right now i have a bike, car and renter and life insurance with statefarm. If i cancel my car insurance can they jack up my bike policy? Also my agent told me that the life insurance and renter is "free" cause its a bundle? Is that ********?

[GateKeeper]

After your ticket falls off the record, cancel your insurance and go to a different company. When they pull your abstract they won't see that ticket?

That is correct.

That was easy!

that is what i think i will do.

Right now i have a bike, car and renter and life insurance with statefarm. If i cancel my car insurance can they jack up my bike policy? Also my agent told me that the life insurance and renter is "free" cause its a bundle? Is that ********?

All fine and dandy.....

Until your current Insurance Company hits you with their cancellation fee........

They are going to get it out of you one way or another......

Am I right VifferFun ?

[KrazyBones]

no such thing for car insurance. State-farm doesn't charge a cancellation fee as iv cancelled my car insurance before

for bike they may charge or pay you depending on when you cancelled.

[Corey McNeely]

All fine and dandy.....

Until your current Insurance Company hits you with their cancellation fee........

They are going to get it out of you one way or another......

Am I right VifferFun ?

Some companies charge a fee and some don't. No different than any other company in every industry that you sign a contract with.