Nap-time at Air Canada..

**invictus43** · 04-16-2012, 07:59 PM

I dunno about you guys..but I'm thinking there were 2 pilots asleep here.....

http://www.cp24.com/servlet/an/local.../?hub=CP24Home

**RockerGuy** · 04-16-2012, 08:11 PM

Maybe they were on strike at the time

**dash8** · 04-16-2012, 08:27 PM

Originally Posted by invictus43

I dunno about you guys..but I'm thinking there were 2 pilots asleep here.....

http://www.cp24.com/servlet/an/local.../?hub=CP24Home

Nah, we're trained to over ride the autopilot, in certain circumstances... the FO was cat napping, which is allowed, and "The "confused and disoriented" part is a load of *********... He woke up, saw a plane converging, and did a TCAS maneuver (Which we train to do, and it can be violent to avoid a mid air collison. He woke up, saw what he/she saw, and took evasive action... there are seconds to react, so to turn to the other pilot and say "Hey, do you see that other plane coming at us??" is sometimes not the best move..and trust me, a large plane 300 meters away is something that catches your attention, and FAST...and not only that, the plane calculates the closure rate and gives us a very loud aural warning (TRAFFIC TRAFFIC< CLIMB CLIMB CLIMB)... you do not mess around with one of these, you react.

Imagine if it HAD been closer, and the risk of a midair collision, and he did nothing?

the media blows everything out of proportion...

**dash8** · 04-16-2012, 08:28 PM

Originally Posted by RockerGuy

Maybe they were on strike at the time

**invictus43** · 04-16-2012, 08:51 PM

Originally Posted by dash8

Nah, we're trained to over ride the autopilot, in certain circumstances... the FO was cat napping, which is allowed, and "The "confused and disoriented" part is a load of *********... He woke up, saw a plane converging, and did a TCAS maneuver (Which we train to do, and it can be violent to avoid a mid air collison. He woke up, saw what he/she saw, and took evasive action... there are seconds to react, so to turn to the other pilot and say "Hey, do you see that other plane coming at us??" is sometimes not the best move..and trust me, a large plane 300 meters away is something that catches your attention, and FAST...and not only that, the plane calculates the closure rate and gives us a very loud aural warning (TRAFFIC TRAFFIC< CLIMB CLIMB CLIMB)... you do not mess around with one of these, you react.

Imagine if it HAD been closer, and the risk of a midair collision, and he did nothing?

the media blows everything out of proportion...

Wouldn't the non-sleeping pilot notice this ahead of time? Or was he well aware and just intending to ignore the warning? Honest questions.. I figured buddy **** the bed and grabbed the stick..I woulda too!!

And why did he dive and then climb? Was that just not being awake? Or was he out-guessing the TCAS?

**matthew** · 04-16-2012, 10:17 PM

I've woken up from naps completely disoriented, sometimes not knowing what day it was or thinking I have to go to work (if I wake up at 6:30pm thinking its AM). I can understand how the first officer reacted.

**EngineerJoe** · 04-16-2012, 10:31 PM

^^ I was wondering the same thing.

Originally Posted by dash8

... it can be violent to avoid a mid air collison.

Still less violent than a collision. If his actions prevented a mid-air collision, good for him!

**dash8** · 04-17-2012, 05:24 AM

Originally Posted by invictus43

Wouldn't the non-sleeping pilot notice this ahead of time? Or was he well aware and just intending to ignore the warning? Honest questions.. I figured buddy **** the bed and grabbed the stick..I woulda too!!

And why did he dive and then climb? Was that just not being awake? Or was he out-guessing the TCAS?

No worries

I would rather people ask and learn rather than listen blindly to the media lol

There are many reasons the non-sleeping pilot might not have been reacting, such as he was warned ahead of time by air traffic control (which the sleeping pilot would not know), and no, we never ignore a warning, but there are times when we pass close together, say in the U.S. with high congestion, and we can see the other plane and do not consider it a threat.

Nope, he would have been following a command from the TCAS, if that is what it was... Ie, you would get a "TRAFFIC TRAFFIC DESCEND DESCEND DESCEND" and on our planes there is a Vertical Speed Indicator that tells us how much to climb or descend depending on certain factors (IE Closure rates, etc..) so he dove (it is quite aggressive), then protocol dictates we return to our last assigned (So the climb)altitude asap and inform ATC what we did. or the other pilot started yelling at him " WHAT the hell are you doing???" lol

Remember when jets are converging, we are each doing 800+kms an hour, sometimes there is only seconds to react, not to say this guy didn;t goof up, but most would rather we err on the side of caution

**dash8** · 04-17-2012, 05:25 AM

Originally Posted by EngineerJoe

^^ I was wondering the same thing.

Still less violent than a collision. If his actions prevented a mid-air collision, good for him!

+1

**dash8** · 04-17-2012, 06:16 AM

Oh, a friendly piece of advice... keep you f&(&*_*& seat belt on AT ALL TIMES when you are in your seat... there is a reason we wear our belts all the time in the cockpit...it may seem like a nice smooth flight, but that can change quickly!

**invictus43** · 04-17-2012, 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by dash8

No worries

I would rather people ask and learn rather than listen blindly to the media lol

There are many reasons the non-sleeping pilot might not have been reacting, such as he was warned ahead of time by air traffic control (which the sleeping pilot would not know), and no, we never ignore a warning, but there are times when we pass close together, say in the U.S. with high congestion, and we can see the other plane and do not consider it a threat.

Nope, he would have been following a command from the TCAS, if that is what it was... Ie, you would get a "TRAFFIC TRAFFIC DESCEND DESCEND DESCEND" and on our planes there is a Vertical Speed Indicator that tells us how much to climb or descend depending on certain factors (IE Closure rates, etc..) so he dove (it is quite aggressive), then protocol dictates we return to our last assigned (So the climb)altitude asap and inform ATC what we did. or the other pilot started yelling at him " WHAT the hell are you doing???" lol

Remember when jets are converging, we are each doing 800+kms an hour, sometimes there is only seconds to react, not to say this guy didn;t goof up, but most would rather we err on the side of caution

Ahh..so descending was actually the correct action..just wasn't really needed at the time!

The article made it sound like the C17 was below them and then he descended which didn't make sense to me. Yeah, I figured an actual avoidance manoeveur would happen pretty quickly given the closing speed..I always leave my seat belt on..ya just never know!!