Oil Change Epic Fail - overfill now won't start.

[usdm_b18]

I have a 2002 Suzuki Katana and being proactive and overly ambitious, over filled my oil (probably about a quart over) similarly to this guy:


http://www.gtamotorcycle.com/vbforum...t=oil+overfill

I wasn't too far over the F mark in the oil window there was a visible bubble at the top, however as I've read this is often not overly accurate.


After changing the oil, the bike sounded very sluggish (requiring the choke to start and backfiring a bit), I thought this was just a symptom of being cold or not being ridden over the winter.


I did take the bike out for a spin for about 20-30 minutes and was eventually able to ease off the choke, as well, the back firing had subsided as well.


The real problems started a few days later when I wasn't able to get the bike to start at all. The bike cranks, however won't turn over. I drained oil out of the bike to the correct level. I checked the spark plugs and they had been fouled by oil. I also tried to clean out any residual oil in the cylinders.



To date I've:

-cleaned out the airbox
-cleaned the air filter
-cleaned the spark plugs
-blown out cyclinders with compressed air
-blown out vent lines
-corrected oil levels
-tried starting the bike with cold start
-pushed the bike around in 1st
-charged battery
-(pleaded with the bike to start)

The bike does occasionally backfire, and also will fire on what sounds to be one cylinder, however it is a far cry from turning over.

Any ideas on what to try next? Thanks GTA Motorcycle;



Probably doesn't help any, however here's the bike cranking:

<embed width="600" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowFullscreen="true" allowNetworking="all" wmode="transparent" src="http://static.photobucket.com/player.swf" flashvars="file=http%3A%2F%2Fvid1060.photobucket.c om%2Falbums%2Ft447%2Fusdm_b18%2Fe25d8db6.mp4">

[usdm_b18]

Sorry - here's a working link:

http://s1060.photobucket.com/albums/...t=e25d8db6.mp4

[Wingboy]

Were the plugs fouled?What do you mean "cleaned them"? New plugs if they were oiled up.
Edit: you cleaned out out residual oil in the cylinders? How,what?

[usdm_b18]

They were oiled up good;

The sparks were new this season and it didn't look like the oil was baked on; so I cleaned them up pretty good. Aside from scraping them down is there any other cleaning I can be doing to them? sand paper on the contact? Torch?

[Wingboy]

Scrape down and sandpaper are things you don't do to spark plugs.I think yours were prolly just wet with fuel.I'm going to wait for a tech to chime in.

[invictus43]

Buy new plugs. I've had iffy luck on cleaning after fouling and you won't know for sure if they're the issue until they're replaced. I also don't believe they're fouled by oil. I suspect it's gas. Did you find oil contamination in the air-box or air filter?

[usdm_b18]

Actually I've gone ahead and ordered some new sparks -

I did notice last time I pulled to clean, that there was some non-ignited gas on them suggesting that there are ignition issues. I tested and there is current running through it, however I couldn't see any spark (perhaps too bright)

Hopefully that's it -- does that logic make sense?



PS thanks for the help wingboy;

[invictus43]

I think yours were prolly just wet with fuel.I'm going to wait for a tech to chime in.

I agree Ric. Unless there is some visible oil in the air box, I think it's just covering the real issue, which is too much choke I bet.

[usdm_b18]

I did find some oil in the drain line for the airbox as well as in the vent lines heading out of the vent box. Not a probably about a cap full in both locations.

Airbox:





Spark Plugs:




Filter:

[Teal]

Sounds more like a fuel issue to me, without knowing more details. If the bike started and ran earlier (post winter storage) but required the choke to keep it going I would think that you're running lean on fuel, for whatever reason. How fresh is your gas? Are the petcock and fuel vent in good working order? Is there fuel in the carb bowls?

Charge the battery, clean the plugs and try to start. Then pull the plugs and diagnose whether they're getting too much or too little fuel, or if they're oil fouled. Don't assume that the plug condition will be consistent for all cylinders, so check each one. Fresh gas would be helpful for troubleshooting, in both the tank and carbs.

[usdm_b18]

Sounds more like a fuel issue to me, without knowing more details. If the bike started and ran earlier (post winter storage) but required the choke to keep it going I would think that you're running lean on fuel, for whatever reason. How fresh is your gas? Are the petcock and fuel vent in good working order? Is there fuel in the carb bowls?

Charge the battery, clean the plugs and try to start. Then pull the plugs and diagnose whether they're getting too much or too little fuel, or if they're oil fouled. Don't assume that the plug condition will be consistent for all cylinders, so check each one. Fresh gas would be helpful for troubleshooting, in both the tank and carbs.

Gas is pretty fresh (new within the last 4 weeks) I did get the bike out for a few good runs in early march when the weather was mid 20's. The old over winter gas has since been run out and the newer gas is in there.

Even the station that I tanked up at is pretty high traffic (downtown TO)

[Wingboy]

Buy new plugs. I've had iffy luck on cleaning after fouling and you won't know for sure if they're the issue until they're replaced. I also don't believe they're fouled by oil. I suspect it's gas. Did you find oil contamination in the air-box or air filter?

Exactly.Scraping and sandpaper are words that don't belong in a sentence with sparkplugs.The fouled part of the insulator that causes the problem is deep down at the bottom.A squirt of contact cleaner might help.But i doubt it.

[usdm_b18]

Exactly.Scraping and sandpaper are words that don't belong in a sentence with sparkplugs.The fouled part of the insulator that causes the problem is deep down at the bottom.A squirt of contact cleaner might help.But i doubt it.

That I did not know -- I suspect that's it. I've been looking at the two contact points (electrode and arm)

[Wingboy]

Before you go spend more cash,wait for someone like frekeyguy to chime in.

[wandering_bandit]

Sounds more like a fuel issue to me, without knowing more details. If the bike started and ran earlier (post winter storage) but required the choke to keep it going I would think that you're running lean on fuel, for whatever reason. How fresh is your gas? Are the petcock and fuel vent in good working order? Is there fuel in the carb bowls?

Charge the battery, clean the plugs and try to start. Then pull the plugs and diagnose whether they're getting too much or too little fuel, or if they're oil fouled. Don't assume that the plug condition will be consistent for all cylinders, so check each one. Fresh gas would be helpful for troubleshooting, in both the tank and carbs.

agree with above. vid looks like a fuel issue ... gas look yellow when you drain from all the float bowls?? If you changed the spark plugs, change the filters as well, air and fuel.

keep us informed - hope you can get back on the road soon.

[Teal]

I didn't see the vid but I did see the pics of the new and old spark plugs... they're all black. How do they smell? Having to use choke plus the backfiring sounds like a lean condition but the plugs suggest otherwise.

If the spark plugs are simply fouled with fuel they should clean up well with some brake cleaner and a roughing pad or sandpaper, at least good enough for further testing until new plugs arrive. Clean plugs, try to start, pull them and look/smell.

[toysareforboys]

I always way over fill my oil too, by at least 1/4 liter over the full line Stops the oil light from coming on during extended wheelies

-Jamie M.

[Ikan]

I always way over fill my oil too, by at least 1/4 liter over the full line Stops the oil light from coming on during extended wheelies

-Jamie M.

Suggestions:

- Drain oil and change filter!
It is most like contaminated by all the gasoline that has gotten into the cylinders via all the engine cranking but not starting. Possibly washing the cylinder walls of necessary oil. Really! Just like what happens to a car engine in the cold of winter when one will not start (warm it up in a garage, change the oil and filter, and new sparkplugs and away you go).

- install fresh new oil and filter.

- with air filter off and spark plugs removed ground sparkplug wires, hold throttle fully open (as it appears the bike has carbs not fuel injection) and crank over a bit to expell what ever is in the cylinders out via the sparkplug holes.

- air filter: replace or clean if oil or gas soaked


- Install new sparkplugs. The ones in the picture are far from being able to fire. In days gone by it worked to clean them with sandpaper or a torch (which I did with 2 strokes many times as a kid years ago on snowmobiles and dirtbikes = pinching every penny). New plugs and electronics do not tolerate this old technique much.

- Ensure battery is fully charged.

- Cross fingers. Make sure there are no little children around if it does not start right away as the words that may come out of your mouth may not be fit for the little ones.

Good luck.
Others may well know more to help you.

[usdm_b18]

Suggestions:

- Drain oil and change filter!
It is most like contaminated by all the gasoline that has gotten into the cylinders via all the engine cranking but not starting. Possibly washing the cylinder walls of necessary oil. Really! Just like what happens to a car engine in the cold of winter when one will not start (warm it up in a garage, change the oil and filter, and new sparkplugs and away you go).

- install fresh new oil and filter.

- with air filter off and spark plugs removed ground sparkplug wires, hold throttle fully open (as it appears the bike has carbs not fuel injection) and crank over a bit to expell what ever is in the cylinders out via the sparkplug holes.

- air filter: replace or clean if oil or gas soaked


- Install new sparkplugs. The ones in the picture are far from being able to fire. In days gone by it worked to clean them with sandpaper or a torch (which I did with 2 strokes many times as a kid years ago on snowmobiles and dirtbikes = pinching every penny). New plugs and electronics do not tolerate this old technique much.

- Ensure battery is fully charged.

- Cross fingers. Make sure there are no little children around if it does not start right away as the words that may come out of your mouth may not be fit for the little ones.

Good luck.
Others may well know more to help you.

Thanks Ikan --

I'm going to add those to the list of things to do this week. I suspect that it is the spark plugs (I really hope it's the spark plugs). I'm guessing there has to be an ignition issue if they are able to get soaked with gas. Oil is probably good idea it is dark even though it was just swapped (probably hadn't recieved an oil change for a long time before I got it).

Gas seems to be a go
Air seems to be a go
so Spark --

seems logical I'll update if that logic pans out.

Thanks for the help GTA Motorcycle;

[kawasakimatt]

I would follow all of the above but if your not getting spark and it wont fire with quick start I have one question. After u re-installed the spark plugs are you sure you replaced the wires on the right plug? If you got even two of them in the wrong place it may throw u off in starting. Just a thought? Hope u get it figured out buddy.