Electric scooter troubles

**JonnyWyshbone** · 04-14-2012, 10:42 AM

Ok, I have a bone to pick in regards to these stupid electric scooters. A buddy of mine yesterday is traveling along the left side of the curb lane, and a scooter is traveling in the same lane on the right and a little in front. Just as my buddy is getting a little speed to pass the scooter, it tries to chane lane position so it is directly in front of my buddy's Harley. He put it down to avoid killing the stupid lady, he has three independent witnesses to the accident and the police charge scooter rider with careless.

The problem now is that scooter operator doesn't have insurance, and thanks to our stupid *** government is not legally required to even have any. My buddy was deemed not at fault by the police and the cop was telling my boy just how much even e hates the stupid things. My buddy is not sure what is about to happen to his insurance with state farm or how he even tries to recoup his money from the scooter lady(small claims?) anyway if my buddy allows me I will post up pics of the damage and my buddys injuries. I was debating between this section and the rider down section to post, but I figured since my buddy's problems now focus on the legal aspect I would drop it here.

Does anyone else see a ginormous problem having uninsured user on the road with us, whether rider or cager? How are you supposed to fight when a scooter can hit your vehicle and the operator can just shrug and say " oops, sorry dude hope you don't have to take much out of your own pocket to fix that"

Should my buddy call state farm, or see if he can get his money from scooter lady first? Has anyone had anything similar happen? Any advice is greatly appreciated

**C-Note** · 04-14-2012, 10:53 AM

You should report the accident first and foremost. Then I would definitely take the small claims route. Problem is, it'll take the summer before he's actually in the court room. Also try and get officer's notes and any proof and witness info he can get. If he has the witness' contact info have them write down their eye whiteness accounts. Just my 2 cents

**Gumby256** · 04-14-2012, 11:01 AM

As much as hate these electric scooters your friend will get a at fault single vehicle accident on his record if he goes threw insurance. Sounds like he was on a multi-lane road and made a unsafe pass in the same lane. He should have switched lanes before attempting to pass.
Lesson learned I guess.

**matt123** · 04-14-2012, 11:58 AM

I would call insurance and find out if his rates would go up.They may pay it out and go after the scooter lady themselves or have to eat it.Just wondering because if you get into a accident with only liability and are 0% at fault it's your insurance that pays for your ride and they go after the other drive and or there insurance.Can't hurt to ask if hes not at fault but be sure of that fact.Not sure about the deductible ,cant remember if I had to pay it or not.Also would she considered and uninsured driver?Just throwing this out there in hopes it somehow helps.

**JonnyWyshbone** · 04-14-2012, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by Gumby256

As much as hate these electric scooters your friend will get a at fault single vehicle accident on his record if he goes threw insurance. Sounds like he was on a multi-lane road and made a unsafe pass in the same lane. He should have switched lanes before attempting to pass.
Lesson learned I guess.

My buddy was in left side of curb lane, scooter was on his right on same lane, the lady changed sides without looking over her shoulder. Police at scene placed blame solely on scooter. I have a bad feeling my boys insurance is goin up either way. Accident was reported I just told him to hold off on calling in into insurance until I got some feedback from u guys. Wow I feel so guilty cuz I was the one who told him to start bringing his bike out more and stop wasting the season.

**JonnyWyshbone** · 04-14-2012, 02:21 PM

Oh yeah, not sure if people realize this, electric scooters are not plated and their operators are not required to possess a license, thus insurance is not a requirement either. If you lose your PDL to a DUI you can legally hop on electric scooter to get around.

**JonnyWyshbone** · 04-14-2012, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by Gumby256

As much as hate these electric scooters your friend will get a at fault single vehicle accident on his record if he goes threw insurance. Sounds like he was on a multi-lane road and made a unsafe pass in the same lane. He should have switched lanes before attempting to pass.
Lesson learned I guess.

Good point, I wasn't there though and my boy isn't a stooge so I'm sure he wasn't doin nuthin crazy, for the cops to charge her and having independent witnesses acknowledge it was her fault I can't see people going out of their way to defend him if he was wrong.

**matt123** · 04-14-2012, 04:06 PM

There is no way there can be at fault single vehicle accident if another person is charged in the course of an accident whether they had property damage or not inconsiquencail.There does not have to be a collision involved,if she was charged this is not a single vehicle accident.also if the police deem she forced him to sustain damage while maneuvering to avoid while at fault she can still be 100% at fault even though she did not receive a scratch.All single vehicle accidents technically end up with that operator getting a charge,usually careless.There were two vehicles involved here not one.

**Gumby256** · 04-14-2012, 09:38 PM

First off if the scooter was another bike with proper license and insurance this would be treated a lot different.
For example if it was a motorcycle passing another motorcycle in the same lane I'm sure everyone would blame the guy passing. The rider in front has full right to be in any part of his lane he chooses and to move within it without someone from behind trying to pass them in their lane. It was a two lane road he should have changed lanes.
I would love to hear what insurance does. My feeling even the fact the scooter was charged they might still treat it as at fault. You can be in an accident where police are called and not get charged with careless driving and still be an at fault claim.

**toysareforboys** · 04-15-2012, 01:48 AM

Originally Posted by JonnyWyshbone

My buddy was in left side of curb lane, scooter was on his right on same lane, the lady changed sides without looking over her shoulder.

It's still not clear. Your buddie tried to pass them in the SAME lane?! Yes or no?

-Jamie M.

**JonnyWyshbone** · 04-15-2012, 07:26 AM

Originally Posted by toysareforboys

It's still not clear. Your buddie tried to pass them in the SAME lane?! Yes or no?

-Jamie M.

Sorry, what I was told by txt was that he was cut off by the scooter(in those words), I assumed he had to have been passing, or riding somewhere in close proximity to scooter, those things go a max of what, ten kliks an hour? But as I said I wasn't there, and a cop and three random people who stayed to be witness saw scooter do something dumb enough to charge with careless(somewhere between Stoney creek and P Dover). I know it to be bad form to pass in same lane, but I thought it was only bad if you pass on the right in the same lane, sorry I spend alot of my time lone wolfin it on the road so my group etiquette maybe incorrect. What about single lane road, is it ok then? When my boy gets out of hospital I'll confirm. Hell, maybe they were stopped next to each other at red light, my boy tried to pick her up and she kicked his bike over, lol. Sorry I only kid cuz I know he'll be ok

**imnothng** · 04-15-2012, 07:45 AM

I do believe that electric scooters are considered the same legally as a bicycle. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but riding a bicycle on a two lane road, the bicycle is the owner of the whole lane, not a certain amount from the shoulder. I often ride my bicycle on the road (because legally i HAVE to), and if I'm next to the curb i may have to swerve to avoid something, so people cant assume that it is ok to pass me in MY lane.

What kind of "careless" did she get? How can you get careless without having a license?

I don't mean to jump on the "it was your buddy's fault" bandwagon. This is a very interesting scenario.

**JonnyWyshbone** · 04-15-2012, 08:03 AM

I know, when I got all his txt's I thought it was really interesting too. But it was hard getting info cuz either he was completely in shock and tripping out on his BB, or they gave him something to feel nice at the hospital. I didn't want to press him too hard for info at the time cuz you know, right after accident and all I didnt want to seem like I was interrogating him or something, and I figure he got enough on his plate having altercation with the only vehicle on the road next to bicycle with no insurance but as I stated he told me cops charged her with careless, which I'm pretty sure anyone operating anything on a public road can be charged with. Don't we have any cop members who can shine light on this? Sorry cuz my story i missing information that may be helpful, like location. As soon as I got the info I'll pass it here. Stay away from scooters everyone 'till you hear from me, lol!

**JonnyWyshbone** · 04-15-2012, 08:17 AM

Hey I'm using tapatalk, is there any way for me to set this up so I can get alert when people add to threads and stuff on my iPhone?

**matt123** · 04-15-2012, 08:50 AM

If the cops charged her with careless i don't see how he could be found at fault.We don't now if she had a drivers license if she does it goes on her license just the same as if she was driving a car.I know of one idiot who got his second DUI by running into a mail box with his scooter in front of the cops.A careless charge is reserved for those who are totally at fault such as rear ending another car,changing lanes and single vehicle accident.If you get a carless instead of a following to close or illegal lane change,or in a single vehicle accident you have been deemed 100% at fault by the police.If she received a 6 point major (careless) I seriously doubt he has any fault.If he had any fault she would have been fined for an legal lane change.The cop defiantly DID NOT find him at fault and is making it clear with her careless ticket.

**FiReSTaRT** · 04-15-2012, 09:04 AM

Based on the police actions, it looks like it's a not-at-fault accident for the buddy, regardless of the almost certainly incorrect description of the situation in the OP. Now it depends on what sort of insurance he has. If he has collision/comprehensive, his insurance company will pay up and take her to court if it's worth their while. If he only has liability, he'll have to take her to court. They'll cover the damage and a token amount in costs, but they won't cover the real court costs.

In such a situation, the idiot's life/limb would be the least of my concerns. I'd worry about mine first. Hope your buddy gets well soon.

**Gumby256** · 04-15-2012, 09:09 AM

What we need is an insurance specialist to chime in not a cop.
The insurance companies have different rules for determining if the claim is at fault or not. For example if you get hit while waiting to turn left at a light. Even if the other driver runs red it goes on your insurance record as an at fault claim.

**nakkers** · 04-15-2012, 09:32 AM

If there is damage to your buddy and/or his bike, call the insurance company or broker and report it.

A word of warning to anyone one that does contact their broker or insurance company if they just want to call out of curiousity. The insurnace company can use the information as a "claim" and it can affect your premium at renewal even if you don't plan to submit a claim. It's reported and a matter of record. Especially if there is a police report.

Do not confuse what police determine as fault, with what insurance companies determine as fault. They are not one and the same. The insurance company will review the police report. and statements and may assign fault to both parties. Even though the e-bike rider was charged.

It's possible and likely the e-bike rider may even make a claim themselves.

**toysareforboys** · 04-15-2012, 09:41 AM

Originally Posted by JonnyWyshbone

scooter, those things go a max of what, ten kliks an hour?

They are electronically limited to a maximum of 35 kph

-Jamie M.

**imnothng** · 04-15-2012, 10:06 AM

I still don't get this. The whole lane belonged to her. The bike should be at fault for passing her in her lane. Sorry, but yet another biker that thinks "laying" it down will stop faster than using brakes that are designed to stop momentum.