DOCC questions

[Fiery254]

Hey Fiery,
Thanks for your comments and please let us know how you really feel about DOCC track events, hopefully it got better? The helmet thing sucks for certain and I know we have a couple of extra helmets with current date stamps usually available. Have to say, as volunteers we need all the feedback we can get to figure out where we're not making these events work better for everyone. Riders meetings will be better this season, we're only too aware of how problematic they were but we felt obliged to meet all the safety-related requirements line by line by ... yeah, there are better ways. Just want you to know we're trying to pay attention to making things more fun. We are happy to talk about any issues anyone has regarding STFU and riding, we like that a lot!

Franco
bike tech

Just to put a bit of meat on the bones of the helmet thing, the argument was about date stamps on a Suomy. The helmet shell was date stamped 2004 but the assembly date stamp was 2005. Because of this the gear tech guy was happy to not let me ride. It was only due to the intervention of another DOCC volunteer that I got over the issue. The second guy showed the first guy his own AGV lid which had the exact same combination of date stamps and pointed out to the gear tech guy that he had passed his helmet the day before so why not pass mine?

I understand all about rules and insurance etc etc but this was about basic inconsistensies in inspection standards. And what really hurt was the fact that the gear tech guy really didn't seem too bothered when he told me I couldn't ride. There was very much a "my word is God" attitude. Track time is too expensive and too fraught with other problems and risks to have to deal with this **** first thing in a morning.

[fmcd92]

Fiery,

I appreciate that detail and FWIW apologise for the frustration that helmet thing caused you. Also glad to hear another club volunteer sorted the certification date and code, stuff like Snell and DOT is easy for everyone but ECU and Euro standards can be a problem since these are something less than intuitive. While our inspection and gear standards are pretty detailed and comprehensive, codes like these remain problematic for much the same reason some riders bring helmets with expired date codes to the track -- lots of details in the rules takes lots of words. Not that that's anything unique, just means potential misunderstanding. The take-away here is you asked for a second opinion and that's the right thing to do.
BTW, we do use the "Hey, we're all just volunteers!" rejoinder too often, sometimes, so be creative when things get stuck and keep trying like you did there. We'll all learn something from these kinds of small victories.

All the best
Franco
DOCC

[fmcd92]

Your problem is the arrogance and know it all attitude of the volunteers . I was a DOCC member from 1994 to 2001 and attended events at mosport and grattan. Grattan was always better as the us guys we're more involved. But the docc is still dominated by pretty much the same people. You better recognize that while all other track day organizers are full to bursting and you guys can't fill spots the reason is you treat participants like children. I dumped the docc in 2001 but not Italian bikes or other non docc track events, What does that tell you? The really funny part is the DOCC events have way more crashing and incidents of bad riding than other events do.
Make it mandatory your event organizers and volunteers go to track days run by Pro 6 to see how it should be done. Copy that and you will get people back signing up

Now Sonny, ...oops, let me try again, here: Ahem, Sonnythe bull, it's not arrogance it's confusion. If you just talked to us you'd see the difference! Seriously, your comments are appreciated since there's no other way to get an open discussion going and these are pretty serious issues, here. A good safety record is essential and the only way to achieve that is to start with every rider in full understanding of fair play and good sportsmanship -- track etiquette I guess it's called. Some DOCC volunteers dispaired of the crashing that can happen anywhere and thought that a heavy clamp-down would regain order. Maybe, maybe not. I think you and I can agree that the only way to maintain order is with all riders being self-managed and having full buy-in to track etiquette and the "All for one and one for all" ethic of ensuring all riders have fun, all of them/us. so, whether or not DOCC events are near the industry average is rhetoric, what's important is how do we all learn how to occupy the track together and do so safely. I think we need to work on that and the answers are not so simple as copying but doing the due diligence and asking the hard questions.
Thank you for yours, we can work with that, too.

Cheers,
Franco

[sonnythebull]

Now Sonny, ...oops, let me try again, here: Ahem, Sonnythe bull, it's not arrogance it's confusion. If you just talked to us you'd see the difference! Seriously, your comments are appreciated since there's no other way to get an open discussion going and these are pretty serious issues, here. A good safety record is essential and the only way to achieve that is to start with every rider in full understanding of fair play and good sportsmanship -- track etiquette I guess it's called. Some DOCC volunteers dispaired of the crashing that can happen anywhere and thought that a heavy clamp-down would regain order. Maybe, maybe not. I think you and I can agree that the only way to maintain order is with all riders being self-managed and having full buy-in to track etiquette and the "All for one and one for all" ethic of ensuring all riders have fun, all of them/us. so, whether or not DOCC events are near the industry average is rhetoric, what's important is how do we all learn how to occupy the track together and do so safely. I think we need to work on that and the answers are not so simple as copying but doing the due diligence and asking the hard questions.
Thank you for yours, we can work with that, too.

Cheers,
Franco

You are fighting an uphill battle out there but I hope you can turn it around. You shouldnt have to lecture everyone on FairPlay and etiquette. That is what I mean by treating people like children. Explain the track rules and then enforce them for everyone and don't play favorites for docc butt kissers. That is an issue too. Also, if a guy goes in the intermediate or fast group and is slow get him out of there. Leave people alone and assume they are adults until they act differently and you will do fine. Not sure how long you have been with the DOCC but the complaints you are hearing have been going on since the 90's at least. Get some younger blood in there, cut back on the lectures and uptight personalities and life will be better for you.

[fmcd92]

Sonnythebull,

Points taken. I particularly like what you said about old geezers hanging around with archaic notions of past glories -- real or imagined. That would be me. I joined in 1981 and have attended DOCC track days since then. How the heck did that happen, it's like 30 years, jeebus! Anyway, keep us in mind, all kinds of seemingly impossible things is changing everywhere, including how DOCC track events are organised and provided so take another look sometime and join us, good folks on Japanese bikes are welcome too. Check us out and ride safe!

Franco

[sonnythebull]

Sonnythebull,

Points taken. I particularly like what you said about old geezers hanging around with archaic notions of past glories -- real or imagined. That would be me. I joined in 1981 and have attended DOCC track days since then. How the heck did that happen, it's like 30 years, jeebus! Anyway, keep us in mind, all kinds of seemingly impossible things is changing everywhere, including how DOCC track events are organised and provided so take another look sometime and join us, good folks on Japanese bikes are welcome too. Check us out and ride safe!

Franco

I like your attitude. Best of luck

[YellowDuck]

Hmmm....I was a first time DOCC member last year, mostly because I wanted to do the Mosport rally. In the end I couldn't make it, but was going to renew my membership and try again this year. But, after reading this thread, I am thinking "why bother?". It's bad enough that they require your membership number to be on the bike (my membership number has 4 digits!), and that it takes them between two months and never to return an email inquiry.

I think I'll find another way to ride Mosport....

(Proof this interweb thing has a certain amount of power, I guess...)

[fmcd92]

You just confirmed again what arrogance and poor attitudes the DOCC have. Death at a track day can happen to anyone and the sheer volume of people and events pro 6 run will increase the odds, besides that they run top level events and have pro racers there to teach riders. You cant say the same about your events? If your way is so great and safe why are your events failing and begging for more bikes while all other track days are full? Wrap your head around that one.Based on your post I hope the DOCC shuts down.

Hi Sonnythe bull,

All too easy to get fired up over who done what and possibly overlook what should be a perfectly useful discussion for most of us about how to stick to the program of a great day of riding on a racetrack! I think we all agree making things clear and simple gets us all on track smoothly and efficiently with minimal compromise to the safety of all. schitt happens and folks are bound to get excited about this or that, totally normal. Does it need to throw us off our game? Not if we're all on the same page regarding the rules of the game, all the stuff we're supposed to know about the flow onto the track, all through our ride session and then smoothly back to paddock. So that's what we can benefit from learning more about -- how do we ensure everyone riding is adequately aware of and is playing by the same rules? Agreed we fail when we try to bash the plan into riders heads, also agreed we fail if we just proceed hoping for the best and doing next to nothing to reduce misunderstandings.

So let's not slag the DOCC 'cause it's not about one person -- it's a club with all kinds of riders.

Or slag away but help us get to the important stuff that concerns the greatest number of riders having the best possible fun. Like a lot of things it ain't as easy as it looks!

Thank you,

Franco

[BlkNBlu]

Hmmm....I was a first time DOCC member last year, mostly because I wanted to do the Mosport rally. In the end I couldn't make it, but was going to renew my membership and try again this year. But, after reading this thread, I am thinking "why bother?". It's bad enough that they require your membership number to be on the bike (my membership number has 4 digits!), and that it takes them between two months and never to return an email inquiry.

I think I'll find another way to ride Mosport....

(Proof this interweb thing has a certain amount of power, I guess...)

The club can normally get you a shorter number for rallie events. As for the delay in reply from you're emails to the executive, i wish I could better help you on that. I know the club is always willing to help the members, and being a member as well I am always trying to help too.

[sircastic]

I've opened the thread again and cleaned it up.

This thread was created to ask questions about DOCC track days and needs to stick to the topic. Please play nice.

[kneedragger88]

I have no horse in the race. I have dealt with the DOCC on an official level regarding SOAR and always found them a good group. I have never done an event even though I own a Ducati (trackdays are really not my thing) I wish everyone could just put their differences aside and try and grow the sport. DOCC holds days, if you want to attend then do. If DOCC is not to your liking then dont. Its my feeling that the DOCC and Pro6 are very different animals. One not better than the other just different. Thanks for opening this thread again Simon. I was following along and understand why you closed it but good can come out of conversation even opposing conversation.

[sonnythebull]

I've opened the thread again and cleaned it up.

This thread was created to ask questions about DOCC track days and needs to stick to the topic. Please play nice.

You deleted any opposing opinion...nice.
The questions about the DOCC track days were being answered, obviously someone didnt like the answers so?..so why exactly did you delete my post where I offered to run the docc track day and pay for the track rental if the current DOCC exec and volunteers resigned?

[sonnythebull]

I have no horse in the race. I have dealt with the DOCC on an official level regarding SOAR and always found them a good group. I have never done an event even though I own a Ducati (trackdays are really not my thing) I wish everyone could just put their differences aside and try and grow the sport. DOCC holds days, if you want to attend then do. If DOCC is not to your liking then dont. Its my feeling that the DOCC and Pro6 are very different animals. One not better than the other just different. Thanks for opening this thread again Simon. I was following along and understand why you closed it but good can come out of conversation even opposing conversation.

Obviously one is better because one is failing and one is thriving

[Fiery254]

I've opened the thread again and cleaned it up.

This thread was created to ask questions about DOCC track days and needs to stick to the topic. Please play nice.

And what about the moderator who opened the door for blknblu to post bile and try to use the deaths of two riders to score points? Any action there against this moderator?

I'm sorry, but I just can't let that go. It was disgusting.

[BlkNBlu]

And what about the moderator who opened the door for blknblu to post bile and try to use the deaths of two riders to score points? Any action there against this moderator?

I'm sorry, but I just can't let that go. It was disgusting.

I was not let in by a mod, I gained a new user account, waited the standard period to be allowed to post. On a side note, not that it will matter because of the fact it was already said, I was not trying to "gain points" on that issue, and do incredibly regret mentioning it. I am not the voice of the docc by any means. Was stupid of me. All I can say is thanks to the mod that removed my stupidity.

[Fiery254]

I was not let in by a mod, I gained a new user account, waited the standard period to be allowed to post. On a side note, not that it will matter because of the fact it was already said, I was not trying to "gain points" on that issue, and do incredibly regret mentioning it. I am not the voice of the docc by any means. Was stupid of me. All I can say is thanks to the mod that removed my stupidity.

http://www.docc.ca/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4575

[Wingboy]

So what?Why wouldn't i post that.It's my club!Lets get back to discussing the trackdays.Maybe something positive will come out of this.
And my mod status has no influence here.I told the others to do what ever they wish with this.Ok?

[sonnythebull]

So what?Why wouldn't i post that.It's my club!Lets get back to discussing the trackdays.Maybe something positive will come out of this.
And my mod status has no influence here.I told the others to do what ever they wish with this.Ok?

You are really in the wrong for doing that. You should not be a moderator especially when the DOCC forum member called GTAMORCYCLE a piece of s h!! and you said nothing and then offered to assist him somehow over here. You are again highlighting the attitude that makes the docc track days unwelcome to most. Fran is the only person over there so far who has any brains or sense.

[infernobuster]

Wow. This thread is full of win.

Subscribed.

[Wingboy]

You are really in the wrong for doing that. You should not be a moderator especially when the DOCC forum member called GTAMORCYCLE a piece of s h!! and you said nothing and then offered to assist him somehow over here. You are again highlighting the attitude that makes the docc track days unwelcome to most. Fran is the only person over there so far who has any brains or sense.

I'm really sorry you feel so strongly about it.My intention from the start was to dicuss for the benefit of all.If you still feel the same,contact Paul and let him decide on my mod status with gtam.
As for the attitude at docc trackdays.When i started doing trackdays,i didn't like the way things were done years ago by other places.Being "stuffed" by some young hotshot isn't fun for a noob like myself.I tried the docc weekend because it appeared to be a much more mature crowd.And i was right.I thought at that time that the Ducati folks would be a snobby bunch with money to throw at anything.I couldn't have been more wrong.Your comment about Fran is spot on.Awesome guy that i would give the keys to anything i own in a heartbeat.
As for the things that have been posted by others,sadly i have to agree with you on most of your points.Your offer of taking over the trackday is very generous,but asking the execs to step aside is never going to happen.
All i can add is...drop by Mosport at the end of May.It would great to buy ya beer and chat. Ric