Mixed feelings with GP Bikes -- and my own lack of mechanical knowledge.

[TekNinja81]

"Disclaimer": Take what I'm saying here with a grain of salt. This is my 3rd year and 3rd bike as a rider, but the bike I'm speaking of below was my first used one (bought my first two brand-new), and I am not mechanically inclined, so I will say up front that there are things I probably *should* have asked for/noticed, but did not know to. This should probably be looked at more as a "buyer-beware"/"know your stuff" story than a true review.

Let me first say that generally, my experience shopping at GP Bikes has been excellent. I know a few of the staff there which helps, but even aside from that, they're very friendly, knowledgeable and professional, unlike some of the smaller shops I've been to. That said, I have my doubts about their service department, and their ethics/thoroughness in examining used bikes they buy/sell -- perhaps in the servicing itself even.

I traded in my Ninja 650R for a used, 2005 V-Strom DL650 this past November. Put a deposit down on a Saturday, did the trade & picked up the bike that Monday, with the conditions that I'd be getting an oil change and brand new tires installed as part of the deal; the rear tire was backordered, so I would return that Friday to have it installed free of charge. I noted that they only seemed to very briefly look at my 650R, but figured maybe they'd done a closer inspection while we were out getting lunch prior to taking the V-Strom.

Cleaned up the bike the day after I picked it up, and realized that the chain & sprocket was *horribly* filthy. I actually had thought it was *supposed* to be black in colour, until I had globs of thick black gunk/dirt come off the chain. I would have expected the place to have checked the chain, and cleaned it in the process, so this was a surprise to me, but I let it go. I took the bike to my regular maintenance guys at 22Customs that night to have them look over the bike, check the bolts, etc. He noted that the bike mostly looked fine, but that my chain was *way* too tight and had almost no slack, so we adjusted the chain to spec.

Picked up my rear tire that weekend, rode for a few days and loved it. A bit later, I learned that my rear tire was actually mounted backwards -- I immediately called, left work to visit GP and they corrected this without delay, no appointment or such needed. Perhaps an innocent mistake while rushing to get the bike ready for me -- but nonetheless, a potentially dangerous oversight that I would not forget.

Flash forward to this March. This one is a little tricky, and could be one, both, or neither mentioned shop's fault.

Took the V-Strom to 22Customs last week, after noticing a difference in the feeling of my rear wheel -- my chain had about 2.5-3" of slack as opposed to the 1-1.5" it normally would. As soon as he looked at the bike, he noted that something looked off about my axle nut. Upon further inspection, we discovered that the entire nut was badly stripped, as was a good portion of the axle's threading. Potentially, the only thing that was holding the nut on was the cotter pin that locked it in place. There was enough free play to the nut that it could potentially slide around about 1-2mm on the axle. I ordered a new axle + nut on the spot and it's since been replaced. We aren't sure whether it was like that for long, but with the threading being mostly gone and no metal filings etc visible, it seems that way.

I suppose all of this comes down to being the risks of buying used, when lacking mechanical knowledge. But I'm left wondering: the axle/nut could have been that way since I bought the bike, and if so, *somebody* should have noticed it, if they hadn't actually caused it, especially since GP had worked on the rear wheel not once but at least twice. It could also just happen to have worn down that way in the last few months, maybe helped by some overtorquing or just the process of removing/replacing that nut the few times. Regardless, I wonder if legally, GPbikes and other dealerships are required to check for/fix issues like this mentioned above when buying/selling used vehicles, or if it truly is "buyer beware" in these cases?

In the long run, I intend to learn how to do all of this maintenance myself, so that if anything DOES go wrong, I'll know exactly why and only have myself to blame... I just hope that either way, an oversight or error by myself or someone I take my bike to, doesn't cost me my safety and possibly my life.

[frekeyguy]

My opinion on this situation:

1. Have you contacted GP in regards - what was their opinion? I would start here first...

2. GP bikes should fix the issue and pay for all of it....it should've been fixed at GP as they did the tire swap.

3. Safety cert looks for issues like axle's etc...it sounds like someone used too much torque on those threads and stripped it.

"What if I believe the inspection of a vehicle I just purchased was carried out improperly?

You should do the following three steps:

Check the regulations and ensure that the defect is an inspection requirement under the Highway Traffic Act - R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 611 Schedules 1 through 9, whichever applies to the type of vehicle inspected.
If you still believe the vehicle inspection was carried out improperly, you are encouraged to have your vehicle re-inspected at another MVIS location. Be sure to request they provide you with a list of items, including applicable measurements that do not meet the minimum SSC requirements. This information will support a possible ministry investigation.
If the results of the second inspection indicate the inspection was not properly conducted, you can contact your local Ministry of Transportation enforcement office as listed in the blue pages of your local telephone book (see “Drivers and Vehicles”)."


Don't be alarmed that your axle was stripped ; I've seen bikes in worst condition, where a front axle was stripped and being held by a pinch bolt, or the whole axle was so rounded that it had to be cut out. or spark plug thread's that were cross threaded and only 1/4" for the plug in the spark plug hole....or shops that forget to put in spacers that later ruined the wheel and carrier....its all 'normal' here it seems.

[TekNinja81]

1. Have you contacted GP in regards - what was their opinion? I would start here first...
2. GP bikes should fix the issue and pay for all of it....it should've been fixed at GP as they did the tire swap.

I actually meant to include the answers to this in my OP; oops! I did indeed contact them, and they offered to replace/fix the rear axle free of charge, BUT mentioned they were pretty backlogged with service. By this point I'd already ordered through 22Customs though, since I was worried about my immediate safety, so my parts were in-transit and I didn't want to cancel on them, especially if I might have to wait a while to get in to GP to fix it. (I think he meant that they'd have to squeeze me in though, not that I'd be waiting weeks etc...)

So we agreed to an alternative: GP will perform a complete re-inspection of the bike at no charge, and when I bring in the bike for an upcoming service job which'll include mostly the 24k checkup stuff (valve inspections etc), it'll also be discounted. I don't know how much those discounts will add up to, but I will be making it a point to at least get back what I paid for the axle replacement+labour.

3. Safety cert looks for issues like axle's etc...it sounds like someone used too much torque on those threads and stripped it.

I have my doubts that this was ever looked at, but as it was obviously done in their shop and I wasn't there to witness it, can't say for sure. My only direct experience with a safety cert was with Rosey Toes, which didn't leave me very confident in how safeties are done, but I know he's a bit of an oddball for those.

[frekeyguy]

Did you mention to GP that you were getting it fixed at 22 Custom as you thought it was unsafe to ride? Maybe they will pay for the money you are out?

[TekNinja81]

Did you mention to GP that you were getting it fixed at 22 Custom as you thought it was unsafe to ride? Maybe they will pay for the money you are out?

When they offered to fix it I told them that I already had ordered the parts in from 22Customs, as I didn't feel comfortable taking any further risk with it; hence the offer for the free inspection and discount on service. Like I said above, I'll be pushing to make sure I get at least the money I'm out, back from them in the process.

(edit: BTW, overall I am still happy with them, despite the issues I've had. They have remained quite friendly and more than willing to help. They're a little out of my way for any emergency service etc, but I do like that they keep a full log of whatever services were rendered in case I ever need to doublecheck anything... And of course the gentleman I've been speaking with is the guy at the counter, not the person who actually did the work, so I've had no reason to give him a hard time beyond ensuring my issues were communicated.)

[topendz]

Its sounds like you have been very reasonable and accomodating about the whole thing. You have a right to expect to receive a bike from a dealer that has been safetied and checked thoroughly so no blame should be put on your lack of knowledge here so don't be hard on yourself. Taking it to two different places though doesn't help matters. Personally I would have taken it back to GP Bikes to resolve for you and I am sure they would have accomodated immediately when safety was involved.

[Barneycanoe]

I agree that taking it different places would start to make it hard to figure out 'who dun what'. There's a saying in business, it's not so much the mistakes you make as how yo deal with them. Sounds like GP Bikes wants to keep your business.
There's no substitution for your personal knowledge of your own bike. A shop manual is very handy and informative and can save you many $$$ if you read it carefully. Also, the owner's manual suggests checking certain things EVERY time you ride. Most of us don't, but it's GOOD practice. I've just been going over the three bikes in my garage thoroughly - found a brake light switch inop for one thing. That alone could be a dangerous fault.

Dave

[TekNinja81]

So as sort of a follow-up to this thread, a good friend of mine purchased a used bike there this week. While the bike itself generally looked great, upon closer inspection he's found a few issues: chain was loose, dirty & rusty (albeit not nearly as filthy as mine was), the coolant reservoir was practically EMPTY, and he's noticing vibration from the front end when braking.. Not sure if anything else has come up yet. And rather unlike my own case, when he brought the issues to their attention, they told him it'd be 2 weeks before they could do anything about it. That to me is inexcusable, at the very least the first two issues are things they could correct in *minutes*, and if there's any kind of problem with the bike's handling, it's something that should not be left alone. And considering they supposedly do an oil change and check the fluids before every bike sale, they're clearly either screwing up bigtime lately, or have been lying to customers.

Another friend ordered a Dainese suit from them and has been continually given the runaround for close to 2 months now, when the suit should have been in long before that. Makes me wonder if the same will now happen to me when I eventually bring the V-Strom in for the promised service discount... I understand they're busy, especially when it's the beginning of the season for many riders, but letting things like these slip is going to give them a bad reputation very quickly.

I want to give these guys my business, as they've been great to me in the past, but these problems are really making me have second thoughts about buying/servicing bikes with them. To say the least, I am definitely making an extra effort to learn to do as much of my own maintenance as I can handle, as it seems finding a trustworthy shop is becoming more and more difficult lately. That said, I love dealing with Jason & Steve at 22Customs, they're quick and efficient, and everything is done in an open environment where you can watch them do the work -- not like most dealerships that do everything behind closed doors. I've learned a lot just from hanging around there and watching... Might just have to post up a separate review for those guys.

[konix]

Another friend ordered a Dainese suit from them and has been continually given the runaround for close to 2 months now, when the suit should have been in long before that. Makes me wonder if the same will now happen to me when I eventually bring the V-Strom in for the promised service discount... I understand they're busy, especially when it's the beginning of the season for many riders, but letting things like these slip is going to give them a bad reputation very quickly.

I order gear from GP bikes before and even when it was a special order, it never took longer than 2 weeks. Maybe your friend can cancel their order and get it from somewhere else.

[TekNinja81]

I order gear from GP bikes before and even when it was a special order, it never took longer than 2 weeks. Maybe your friend can cancel their order and get it from somewhere else.

Think that may be the plan; being continually told "no" or "maybe in a week or two" when asking if his order is in yet (which he paid for in full), is understandably frustrating. Is it normal for Dainese suits to take that long for a special order?

[TekNinja81]

So as some of you may have seen posted in General, I'm now also looking at a possible wrecked chain at this point. Seems to keep getting a rust/rust-coloured coating to it, despite regular cleaning & lubing, and several have suggested this may be result of a wrecked chain that is now leaking old lube/dusty rust particles from the O-rings.

All of that said, when I bought the bike back in November, it had 23.5k on it; I am now just over 30k, and am quite surprised that the issue didn't present itself until now -- at least not quite to this extent. I had a few times where the chain got dirty/rusty looking, but attributed it to the snowy/salty conditions I'd ridden through. Was regularly cleaning & lubing it of course, as I still do, but now it seems something is definitely wrong.

GP has a certain warranty on used bikes they sell, I believe it's the lesser of either 3,000km or 3 months, or something to that affect, either of which I've now passed. But given the above posts and now this chain issue, should I be expecting them to rectify the problems at any kind of a discount? If they'd presented themselves/I'd been aware of any of these problems when I first bought the bike, I would have brought it right back to either have them fixed or my money refunded, but at this point I don't know what I can reasonably expect out of them.

[topendz]

GPBikes is one of the few success stories in the motorcycle business in the GTA lets face it. Being in the business I don't have to go there often and if I do it's generally to have Ken work on my Ducatis, the only other person other than myself, I trust to work on my bikes right now. He, in my eyes, is the best when it comes to Ducati Service. One disappointment I will share is when they moved to the new location I was shocked how small the service bay was, it's very disproportional to the size of the shop and the amount of work I suspect is going through the service department on a daily basis. When you have a large uncluttered service area it really promotes organization and efficiency.

[Cha0s00100]

GP seems to be starting a trend.

I just got my Daytona 675 with 10,000km on it. They replaced new tiers / breaks for safety cert. I ride the bike home and notice strong bike vibrations while using the front break and the break grabbing and letting go during slow speed breaking (consistent pressure applied).

Prior to picking the bike up when I purchased it I noticed the chain was filthy and coolant resinous was just about empty. I was assured those would be taken care of prior to me picking the bike up. (I end up doing this myself)

When I show up 4 days later to pick my bike up as scheduled they still don't have my registration papers ready so I end up waiting for 2 hours. They plate my bike and I think im good to go when I notice coolant is still empty and chain filthy. I figure I will do it myself at this point and ride the bike home to notice the break issue.

I call them back about the break issue the same day and im given an appointment two weeks away . . . At this point I need to take a day off work and just show up. Hopefully I get this resolved . . Rather then going to Dover on Friday I need to get this #$%^ taken care of. Not happy and hope this gets resolved soon.

I am sure they will take care of this for me but im just upset that I need to go all the way back to GP for something they should have checked out prior to selling me the bike . . .

Ill keep you guys posted =/

[JonnyWyshbone]

Think that may be the plan; being continually told "no" or "maybe in a week or two" when asking if his order is in yet (which he paid for in full), is understandably frustrating. Is it normal for Dainese suits to take that long for a special order?

I have the dainese t. Avro two piece. I purchased mine from sportbiketrackgear.com at the time for 899. Theyve got a pretty good selection I dainese suits and when I had a problem with my suit, Brian Van called me back personally to sort it out. He's got tons of YouTube vids reviewing what he sells. Check them out if things dont sort themselves out wit GP. I originally purchased my bike at GP, but I haven't been back there since. Only cuz I gotta buddy who can sort out any situation for a reasonable prices.

[topendz]

GP seems to be starting a trend.

I just got my Daytona 675 with 10,000km on it. They replaced new tiers / breaks for safety cert. I ride the bike home and notice strong bike vibrations while using the front break and the break grabbing and letting go during slow speed breaking (consistent pressure applied).

Prior to picking the bike up when I purchased it I noticed the chain was filthy and coolant resinous was just about empty. I was assured those would be taken care of prior to me picking the bike up. (I end up doing this myself)

When I show up 4 days later to pick my bike up as scheduled they still don't have my registration papers ready so I end up waiting for 2 hours. They plate my bike and I think im good to go when I notice coolant is still empty and chain filthy. I figure I will do it myself at this point and ride the bike home to notice the break issue.

I call them back about the break issue the same day and im given an appointment two weeks away . . . At this point I need to take a day off work and just show up. Hopefully I get this resolved . . Rather then going to Dover on Friday I need to get this #$%^ taken care of. Not happy and hope this gets resolved soon.

I am sure they will take care of this for me but im just upset that I need to go all the way back to GP for something they should have checked out prior to selling me the bike . . .

Ill keep you guys posted =/

My advise would be to contact Jerry @ GP to give him the opportunity to stamp this out immediately. It sounds like there may be a quality control issue on used bikes going through the shop. Just a guess but they may have a junior service chap on the used bikes that may not be up to scratch. In my view any bike going through any work by any mechanic should be quality controlled by the Service Manager if there is one at GP I don't know their setup. Best to ask them.

[TekNinja81]

Yup, I'm probably never buying another bike there, nor will I take anything there for service after reading that. I called today to schedule my valve check and to have my chain & sprockets replaced, earliest they could fit me is early May. Said if I just do the chain maybe earlier, or I could try and show up early in the morning for an "unscheduled 1hr early day service" meaning basically they'd be rushing to change just the chain, leaving sprockets as is... I'd rather not have someone rushing the job, after already having things screwed up before for that reason.

With GP I'd be paying around $340+tax for the chain+sprocket replacement... and waiting a month. 22 Customs will be closer to $300 total, and this week. Think I'll just be sticking to them from now on and stop giving GP any more chances. Might just do my valves with them too and forget the "discount" at GP for that matter...

[revrandy]

As a former V-Strom owner (DL650), I strongly suggest purchasing the manual and then heading over to stromtrooper.com. Between the 2 you will be given excellent guidance to check the valves yourself and also to change the chain/sprocket.

Valves should take no more than 2 or 3 hours, maybe 4 or 5 the 1st time. Chain and sprockets should be 1 hour or so.

IMO you are spending way too much on service for things you can learn to do yourself. If you run into a hiccup while in the process, the folks on stromtrooper will promptly guide you on how to fix your boo-boo. It is an amazing resource for Strom owners.

[TekNinja81]

Hey revrandy; I'm actually a member at StromTroopers as well, and posted about some of the issues I've had there. Excellent feedback from them as well, and indeed, a great resource for all things V-Strom. Going to look into the service manual as well.

I wound up getting the chain & sprockets replaced at 22Customs, and the difference in the bike is quite noticeable. Could have attempted it myself, but for the price he gave me, and the infrequency that I should ever need it done, I felt better giving him the business.

I've got my valve clearance check scheduled for May 4th, the soonest GP could fit me in, and after that my bike will never touch their service bay again, nor will I ever buy another used bike there without VERY close examination. I'm just hoping that whoever works on the bike this time, doesn't screw it up. I've been advised to ask them to record the numbers from the check, to prove they actually did anything; seems like wise advice. The sales guys there are great, and Jeff at the service counter has been very friendly and accomodating, but I do not trust whoever's doing the service/certifications there after the experiences I and others have had of late.


On a sidenote, my friend who's been waiting on his Dainese suit called today and was told once again that it wasn't in yet. He ordered one through Riders Choice instead (should've gone there to begin with) and was given an estimated 10-day delivery date. GP wanted to charge him a 25% restocking fee for cancelling his order, but gave in when he showed up there, after claiming that supposedly, the suit hadn't yet been shipped from Italy. I don't know if the shipping from Italy bit is even true, but whether it is or not, he was given the runaround for upwards of 2 months and a proper Dainese distributor will be getting him the same item within less than 2 weeks.


Lessons learned: Never trust a dealership to properly service anything you can't verify yourself... and never special order Dainese gear through GPbikes...

[Cha0s00100]

Just wanted to provide an update on my Daytona. After I took the bike back in and they confirmed warped rotors they ordered up and new set of EBC waves (nice upgrade from stock). 3-4 days later I get a call that the rotors are in and they are able to squeeze me in ASAP. I take off work an hour early and they get the bike in the shop right away and make it right. The service was quick and greatly appreciated. Thanks to everyone at the service department at GP Bikes for making it right and putting up with me. I understand things do happen and you guys made the best out of a bad situation.

[topendz]

Just wanted to provide an update on my Daytona. After I took the bike back in and they confirmed warped rotors they ordered up and new set of EBC waves (nice upgrade from stock). 3-4 days later I get a call that the rotors are in and they are able to squeeze me in ASAP. I take off work an hour early and they get the bike in the shop right away and make it right. The service was quick and greatly appreciated. Thanks to everyone at the service department at GP Bikes for making it right and putting up with me. I understand things do happen and you guys made the best out of a bad situation.

Excellent, see it all worked out in the end stella!