Local Shops VS Online Dealers.....discuss.

[Rob MacLennan]

Would it have been a good decision if the item was $100 online and $400 in store?

It's only in motorcycling that we are getting gouged so bad. I buy a lot of mountaineering equipment locally and I never feel downright shafted. For example most ski shops have prices that are similar to the US. Why is it that motorcycle retailers have it so bad?

Don't take up photography then.

[jolomatic]

Would it have been a good decision if the item was $100 online and $400 in store?

Maybe, maybe not, depending on whether you want the item that day or are willing to wait a month and pay unknown duties/taxes.

It certainly would have been a good choice if we were comparing $402 and $408.

I also think she would have made a good decision if she chose the $2 Chinese ebay order. The point is that there were many factors to consider other than just price, and she did a good job of prioritising and reconciling the different issues, and came to the best choice (for her) based on her specific needs/wants of the moment.

[matthew]

You're equating service with price, when they are not even close to being the same thing.

I know they're not the same thing, but when I see users posting about "establishing a relationship" with the store to get better prices, to me it sounds like they're dropping a lot of money to eventually get deals (better service).

[Petraeus]

LOL, where have I seen this debate before? Oh yea, THE RIAA.

Adapt or die

I will give you some FREE advice that will not only solve your current problem, but make you a ******** of money.

Start an online shop and use your local business to supplement it.

You're welcome

[Kri$han]

Would it have been a good decision if the item was $100 online and $400 in store?

It's only in motorcycling that we are getting gouged so bad. I buy a lot of mountaineering equipment locally and I never feel downright shafted. For example most ski shops have prices that are similar to the US. Why is it that motorcycle retailers have it so bad?

Sorry, but I think this is inaccurate. The gouging is equally as bad for ANY extreme activity/sport that typical suburbanites aren't participating in. Mountain biking, snowboarding, motorcycling... its all at least 30%-40% cheaper down south. And let's not even get into availability.

The way I see it, is that there is an unspoken agreement when you start trying stuff on in a store, and that is that you are going to give them the opportunity to sell you something. It is the shop's job to offer you something that is of value to you for a price that is reasonable, and if they fail to do so, you are well within your right to not make a purchase. On the other hand, if you know going in that you will not buy anything regardless of what happens in the store, and proceed to try on a bunch of stuff, ask a bunch of questions, and generally waste their time and money, then what your are doing is pretty close to stealing.

Stealing? I can understand wasting a salesperson's time (and thus money), but if you're in a store browsing merchandise by yourself, REGARDLESS of whether or not your intentions are to buy, you aren't consuming anything. If anything, you make their store look more populated, which could create more business. Often I'll shop in a store before researching online, so that I already have an idea of the fit, quality, and build of an item before researching the most cost effective (in regards to price and availability) option.

[Petraeus]

p.s. I am an ecommerce developer and I will digitize your whole inventory in exchange for bike parts and gear, msg me.

[Rob MacLennan]

Stealing? I can understand wasting a salesperson's time (and thus money), but if you're in a store browsing merchandise by yourself, REGARDLESS of whether or not your intentions are to buy, you aren't consuming anything. If anything, you make their store look more populated, which could create more business. Often I'll shop in a store before researching online, so that I already have an idea of the fit, quality, and build of an item before researching the most cost effective (in regards to price and availability) option.

You're consuming the stores lighting, floor space, and inventory, all of which they have to pay for. These are the items, that are responsible for the majority of the price difference. If you have no intention of purchasing in that store, then it's morally wrong.

[UberCLK]

I support a local shop for gear and such, they have what i want and give me a fair price although the product itself is pricey. service is good and always say hi when I drop by their booth at the shows..

For the bunch of OEM parts I need, checked with my dealer.. asked my sales guy if he hook me up.. sale next Monday blah, blah, blah (turns out to be only snowmobiles.. this was SnowCity), but in the end was MSRP.. can't deny that online was 30% less and even plus shipping and whatever was at least 20% less than buying locally. as for loyalty.. heck i bought my bike there, shouldn't it go both ways?
i don't know OP but would have like to see if could of help me out.. but now parts are ordered and on route.

[kamikaze]

While spending time with people to ensure proper fit of apparel and riding gear is important, what about things like parts and tires? If i know exactly what I need and can buy it online for a discount, why would I spend more to buy it in store?

[Kri$han]

You're consuming the stores lighting, floor space, and inventory, all of which they have to pay for. These are the items, that are responsible for the majority of the price difference. If you have no intention of purchasing in that store, then it's morally wrong.

Lighting/heating would be consumed regardless of presence, floor space is really only a concern if it's limited (in which I've never experienced a "packed" shop in Canada), and you're not consuming inventory if you're not buying it. If there's a showroom floor, then it's meant for "browsing".

Asking questions, taking advice and considering customer care are all things I appreciate when purchasing from a local shop (I buy all my gear locally), but if I want a pair of rearsets or hardware, my business will go to the shop with the best balance of price, availability and service - which oddly enough has been local at times.

[jolomatic]

Stealing? I can understand wasting a salesperson's time (and thus money), but if you're in a store browsing merchandise by yourself, REGARDLESS of whether or not your intentions are to buy, you aren't consuming anything. If anything, you make their store look more populated, which could create more business. Often I'll shop in a store before researching online, so that I already have an idea of the fit, quality, and build of an item before researching the most cost effective (in regards to price and availability) option.

I said it was like stealing.

There have been many times when I wanted the help of a sales person, was unable to find one who was free and so I left the store (Apple Stores everywhere take note!). If there had been someone available to answer my questions, I would have made a purchase. If it happens to be the case that the person who was taking up the salesperson's time had no intention to buy anything, then they have caused the store to lose a sale, just so they could weasel into a free consultation. Yes, I think that is very much like stealing.

To be clear, just going in to the shop to look around, is not what is being considered here. To me that is the same as looking through the catalogue. But if you have no intention to buy anything, and are not even open to giving the sales person an honest chance to sell you something, then anything beyond questions regarding price and availability, in my opinion is dishonest, unless you clearly state that you are not looking to buy anything today.

[Rob MacLennan]

Lighting/heating would be consumed regardless of presence, floor space is really only a concern if it's limited (in which I've never experienced a "packed" shop in Canada), and you're not consuming inventory if you're not buying it. If there's a showroom floor, then it's meant for "browsing".

Asking questions, taking advice and considering customer care are all things I appreciate when purchasing from a local shop (I buy all my gear locally), but if I want a pair of rearsets or hardware, my business will go to the shop with the best balance of price, availability and service - which oddly enough has been local at times.

You're consuming the presence of the inventory, which is a locked-in asset for the dealer if you aren't buying it. Again, it's morally wrong.

[jolomatic]

presence of the inventory

What does that mean? (not being a jerk, I really don't understand the phrase).

Also: even without wasting any salesperson's time, trying stuff on wears out the product. Personally I find it gross enough to think of all the sweaty but honest armpits that have gone into the jacket I'm about to buy, to think that that number is even higher than those who actually considered buing it just makes shudder! (joking, but I think the point is valid)

[Rob MacLennan]

What does that mean? (not being a jerk, I really don't understand the phrase).

Also: even without wasting any salesperson's time, trying stuff on wears out the product. Personally I find it gross enough to think of all the sweaty but honest armpits that have gone into the jacket I'm about to buy, to think that that number is even higher than those who actually considered buing it just makes shudder! (joking, but I think the point is valid)

The store pays for the inventory, that they have on their shelves. That money that they pay for that inventory is essentially frozen, so it can't be used for other purposes (paying employees, paying rent, keeping the lights on.....). There's also the wear and tear factor, from things like helmets being taken out of the box by people who aren't buying, that can result in a loss, through mark-down, to the business.

[jolomatic]

Ok, I understand now. And agree completely.

[Rob MacLennan]

I know they're not the same thing, but when I see users posting about "establishing a relationship" with the store to get better prices, to me it sounds like they're dropping a lot of money to eventually get deals (better service).

No, that would be getting preferential pricing, likely IN ADDITION to better service. I used to routinely get 15-20% off at the old Cycle World West, without saying a word, because I had dealt with them since something like 1986. When their manager screwed me over I was getting as much as 40% off from the accessories department, because they felt bad over what had happened, but I had a hard time walking back into the place.

[Griffin]

You're consuming the stores lighting, floor space, and inventory, all of which they have to pay for. These are the items, that are responsible for the majority of the price difference. If you have no intention of purchasing in that store, then it's morally wrong.

I disagree.

The store is in business to sell me something. If they aren't successful it's not my fault.

I buy a lot of stuff from GP Bikes, less from Royal and others, because at times I get okay-to-good service and the price is reasonable. On my boots, they were cheaper than from my usual online stores. But, if I can save $300 on a $400 jacket, I'm not going to feel morally obliged to do pay the higher price because I walked into the store and tried it on no differently than if it was on sale next door.

Let's take that scenario for a second: If I walk into GP and try on a jacket and eventually chat with a staffer for a couple of minutes, then find out the same jacket is on sale next door at Royal. Should I not buy the jacket on sale at Royal for half the price? Would that not be "morally wrong"?

You can charge more for your product than a competitor and still sell your stuff. But you have to offer more such as inventory, timeliness, knowlegable advice, etc. That's where I see the local shops failing.

[Rob MacLennan]

I disagree.

The store is in business to sell me something. If they aren't successful it's not my fault.

I buy a lot of stuff from GP Bikes, less from Royal and others, because at times I get okay-to-good service and the price is reasonable. On my boots, they were cheaper than from my usual online stores. But, if I can save $300 on a $400 jacket, I'm not going to feel morally obliged to do pay the higher price because I walked into the store and tried it on no differently than if it was on sale next door.

Let's take that scenario for a second: If I walk into GP and try on a jacket and eventually chat with a staffer for a couple of minutes, then find out the same jacket is on sale next door at Royal. Should I not buy the jacket on sale at Royal for half the price? Would that not be "morally wrong"?

You can charge more for your product than a competitor and still sell your stuff. But you have to offer more such as inventory, timeliness, knowlegable advice, etc. That's where I see the local shops failing.

Disagree all you want. You're morally wrong.

*EDIT* As I said previously if you walk into the store, with no intention of possibly purchasing there, just to make use of their inventory.

[raginduck]

Local!?!? Global is local in today's market. Move with the market, or be run over by it. Shops that try to stick with their old ways of doing business will not last...period. I don't care about someone's overhead and inventory costs... that's not my problem... lean out your inventory and work on your lead times. You already know that people will use you as a fitting store and order elsewhere... factor that into your business model and work with it.... or don't...

The lines fed about not having anywhere to service your bike if all the shops close down.. is crap. All those shops close, all those mechanics will find a way to continue on doing what they do. As far as I know, some of the best mechanics around don't even work out of a shop... or sell product other than their services at all.

[Rob MacLennan]

Local!?!? Global is local in today's market. Move with the market, or be run over by it. Shops that try to stick with their old ways of doing business will not last...period. I don't care about someone's overhead and inventory costs... that's not my problem... lean out your inventory and work on your lead times. You already know that people will use you as a fitting store and order elsewhere... factor that into your business model and work with it.... or don't...

The lines fed about not having anywhere to service your bike if all the shops close down.. is crap. All those shops close, all those mechanics will find a way to continue on doing what they do. As far as I know, some of the best mechanics around don't even work out of a shop... or sell product other than their services at all.

They have figured that into their business model. They've reduced in-store inventory and order everything in, so that you have nowhere to try anything on unless you haul your butt out to a superstore.

The day that I can have a helmet of jacket 3D printed in my home, for fitting, that's the day the market is global. Can you say "replicator"?