Local Shops VS Online Dealers.....discuss.

[ronnie]

This is a very dear subject to me. I own a shop where i sell jewellery, the same things happen in our industry I have seen people choose to go online for very small differences in price so i am not surprised and i do not blame them. Its their hard earned money and i would do the same!

Most retailers rip the buyers severly and have been for years. I sell a diamond for $3000 and spence diamonds a supposed wholesaler sells the same for $7000!

So who is at fault? The buyer for not paying agreeing to pay more to support the retailers luxury? Lets be real !

Yes as retailers we have way more costs and yes this is our bread money and we need to make a living... But business is business

The internet is not going away, so you adapt. Swim or drown. What i did 5 years ago was to move into a very cheap low cost location and pinched every penny to bring my operating cost to lowest. Its a shabby place but i still offer the best service and prices so thats all that matters.

My customers come to me cuz not only do because i give them better then internet prices but i also give them service. Thats what a bike shops hotta do too !

Thank GOD i survive. But i am one of the most connected people in our business and i get merchandise for
Way less then others.... others are not surviving. Cuz they refuse to change. I also started selling wholesale direct to the public so i can beat any price on the internet! The idea is you accept change and agree to make less profits and you donwhat you can

i am not greedy i make WAY waaaay less money Then all others in my business but i am on safer ground. I make less then 100k annually. I live in a 180k home with a mortgage, i drive a mitsubishi and my bike is like $2000. I do not mind still i know that what i make is still better then most people out thete but some would think "hey you are rich you sell gold n diamonds" lol but i m not

Bike shops or any shop will need to eventually match internet prices by lowering their operating costs and restructuring their business. Its economic evolution

There u have some very honest input into whats going on in small business world

By the way i will add and say that i know my opinion as stated here is not shared by 95% off other retailers.... So please no hate mail from other shop owners

I agree with you. I think that the big massive shop with massive buildings are going to fail and HAVE been. Bike shops are not meant to be these massive corporate structures. they're supposed to be somewhere that you can show up and actually feel at home, not like you're at the local new car dealership. At the same time, the small shop has to be able to offer big massive shop service as well.

[Rob MacLennan]

C'mon! Business is business - you survive or you got out of.

You cannot ask ppl to pay just to support someone's business. Local shops? Well... Why do not those "local shops" buy "my services" to support me?

I think, if "local shops" want to compete with "online" - they have to offer something, that "online" never will be able to provide. Otherwise, sorry man - the lower price is the lower price

They do provide something, that the online shops can never provide for you; the ability to see the items you want to purchase, in person. Why else do so many people go to those brick and mortar stores, so that they can 'check out what they want to buy online'?

With that said I have stopped dealing with a store I've dealt with for decades because they no longer seem to stock anything I'm looking for any more and, when I try to order something in, it seems to take forever. When I asked them about a specific item I wanted to buy I was told that it no longer existed, but purchased directly from the manufacturer online. That didn't stop me from dealing with other shops though.

[slogan]

They do provide something, that the online shops can never provide for you; the ability to see the items you want to purchase, in person. Why else do so many people go to those brick and mortar stores, so that they can 'check out what they want to buy online'?

OK. Here is what I say:
The "services" that local shops provide to potential customers (who goes after to online) - those services do not work. Find something else...
C'mon - marketing is marketing - it's kind of RND: to find the way to get your customer have a business with you.
Everything is evaluating and progressing: the trick that did work yesterday, may not work anymore tomorrow. Then you have to find new trick and get new customers, than blame bloody customers for walking away
something like that

[ddusseld]

This is the big problem. Stock. If a local store does not stock what I want then there no incentive for me to buy from them. I can order it as easy as the shop. Like Rob, eventually I will give up on a shop if everytime I look for something they don't have it in stock.

The other "issue" local shops have is knowledge. I suspect I'm pretty much normal in that before I decide to buy I research the crap out of whatever I'm interested in on the internet. I go to a shop for advice and I likely know more about that specific item then the sales person. There is very little value added. This is not a knock on the sales person. How can they know everything about everything?

My policy has to do with supporting local business. If the price is close and the item is in stock I'll buy locally. If not, I try to order through a Canadian internet seller and if that fails I order internationally via the web.

They do provide something, that the online shops can never provide for you; the ability to see the items you want to purchase, in person. Why else do so many people go to those brick and mortar stores, so that they can 'check out what they want to buy online'?

With that said I have stopped dealing with a store I've dealt with for decades because they no longer seem to stock anything I'm looking for any more and, when I try to order something in, it seems to take forever. When I asked them about a specific item I wanted to buy I was told that it no longer existed, but purchased directly from the manufacturer online. That didn't stop me from dealing with other shops though.

[ska]

Ronnie, in general I agree with your sentiment, but there are areas where it cuts the other way. For example, I needed a set of tires recently. I already knew exactly what I wanted, started calling around. Couldn't believe the variability in quotes I was getting, nearly $300 span. Worse, they were all $100 to $200 more than what I could purchase the same tires online.

So are they trying to rip me off, or just bad at supplier agreements? Either way, doesn't make me feel good towards them. I'm perfectly happy to pay a bit more for local time and expertise, but dicking me around on margins isn't going to make me happy, especially when I'm already putting shop rate money in your pocket for a simple job.

[Rob MacLennan]

OK. Here is what I say:
The "services" that local shops provide to potential customers (who goes after to online) - those services do not work. Find something else...
C'mon - marketing is marketing - it's kind of RND: to find the way to get your customer have a business with you.
Everything is evaluating and progressing: the trick that did work yesterday, may not work anymore tomorrow. Then you have to find new trick and get new customers, than blame bloody customers for walking away
something like that

This in no way excuses those people who expect everyone else to support the local shop, so that they'll have their place to selfishly shop for product they'll eventually be buying online anyway. In most cases the cost difference, after taxes duties and shipping, is minimal anyway. Maybe 5%-10% on most items. The ability to check the items out is what that extra cost covers.

This is the big problem. Stock. If a local store does not stock what I want then there no incentive for me to buy from them. I can order it as easy as the shop. Like Rob, eventually I will give up on a shop if everytime I look for something they don't have it in stock.

The other "issue" local shops have is knowledge. I suspect I'm pretty much normal in that before I decide to buy I research the crap out of whatever I'm interested in on the internet. I go to a shop for advice and I likely know more about that specific item then the sales person. There is very little value added. This is not a knock on the sales person. How can they know everything about everything?

My policy has to do with supporting local business. If the price is close and the item is in stock I'll buy locally. If not, I try to order through a Canadian internet seller and if that fails I order internationally via the web.

Stocking has definitely become an issue. I recognize that many of the things I want may be unusual, and therefore not stocked items, but it has now gotten to the point where common items are also frequently not available. With the shop I mentioned it became bad enough that finding handlebars, bar ends, and swingarm spools weren't stocked. Combine that with a lack of knowledge, like that item I was told no longer existed, and it's enough that I have no real desire to walk into that store anymore. Quite a pity, as I had shopped there almost since I started riding.

Another shop seems to have let go all the people who served me well, leaving some people I have little or no trust in, so it certainly creates an issue with wanting to go there again.

Now that I've found one of my favourite suppliers in the US also has Canadian distributors, my most recent order went to the Canadian side of the border. It was a small item that costs about $35.00 in the US, but $40.00 in Canada, which means I'm actually saving a few bucks on the duty and shipping overall. The taxes would be the same, no matter which side I purchased from. I get the product I prefer, a Canadian distributor gets my money, and I pay less for it. Where's the problem?

[rob_96]

C'mon! Business is business - you survive or you got out of.

You cannot ask ppl to pay just to support someone's business. Local shops? Well... Why do not those "local shops" buy "my services" to support me?

I think, if "local shops" want to compete with "online" - they have to offer something, that "online" never will be able to provide. Otherwise, sorry man - the lower price is the lower price

Local shops do provide something more, or they should. Using a Local show will allow you to build a relationship with the employees there. Online yes the prices are lower, but if you use a local shop they should be more willing to help you in other ways. Price is not always the most important thing, its the extra services they offer. I try to use local when I can, and i can say that i have build many relationships and acquired many new friends. They have from time to time, tossed me free parts and extra service for free. Online wont give you this.

[OpenGambit]

When I started out. I bought everything at a shop. I wanted to try everything on and spend the time and I spent a few thousand bucks at Rider's Choice, GP ETC.

Now I kinda have my branding/sizeing down in a sense. I know what size I am and what brands I like. I honestly don't have time to go to a store that often. So its just easy to order online and ship it to the office where someone is going to receive it and bring it to me. it also doesn't help that the pieces I wanted sometimes had to be ordered in. So if the scenario is:

(a) I go to a store, I order it, I pay, it comes in 3 weeks later, i go an pick it up and costs a significant amount more. (520 vs 679- actual prices)
(b) i press some buttons online, pay, it comes in 4 days later on my desk

The choice is simple.

That being said If I am planning to try everything on and generally use the service, then I'll most likely buy it at that place.

[viper84737]

The laws of supply and demand WILL ALWAYS CONQUER all opinions and feelings. That being said, we all know the Occidental economic model has surged ahead over the decades and now the Oriental model is catching up (what I've called for years now as The Great Equalization). This is supply and demand at its finest. Prices in the West must continue to decline relative to lower prices in the East until some reasonable equilibrium is met, and since we know prices don't usually go down, we must expect that prices will generally rise in the East to meet prices in the West, as the Orient equalizes. As that happens, it will be easier and easier to shop locally once again, as costs to produce/ship/import will be prohibitive relative to buying locally anyway.

Now this being said, I personally prefer to shop at a shop where I can hold people accountable to the claims they make about products they sell. Why? I have a healthy distrust of people, as they seem to say one thing and not live up to doing it when push comes to shove, so by them having a shop, it's easier to bring the hammer down if they fail to deliver. One might argue that there is a premium to pay for this in the form of "insurance" against a failure to deliver what was promised. The risk of getting screwed in the end is mitigated because it costs you less to hold someone accountable. I also to like to shop online for cheaper items, because I know the cost of getting screwed is less and not justifiable by me having to go to a local retailer (in time, gas, price premium), and thus I take that risk within my tolerances.

You all do the same thing, whether you're aware of it or not.

The burning question for everyone remains as follows: Is the price we pay at a local retailer, which includes this insurance premium (totalling some 50% higher than the price we pay at an online retailer) justified at the amounts we pay at each source?

[slogan]

Local shops do provide something more, or they should. Using a Local show will allow you to build a relationship with the employees there. Online yes the prices are lower, but if you use a local shop they should be more willing to help you in other ways. Price is not always the most important thing, its the extra services they offer. I try to use local when I can, and i can say that i have build many relationships and acquired many new friends. They have from time to time, tossed me free parts and extra service for free. Online wont give you this.

I totally agree, on one side, but...
If this doesn't work to get more customers, you cannot blame them for it.You wanna get more customers - you have to find a way that works, instead of winning "let's support local shops" or so on...
Supporting someone local, just because it is local - has no sense.
In some countries (I do not wanna list 'em) governors put up to 50-100% import taxes on vehicle price to support local manufacturer. But local manufacturer makes crap. And then they going to say, that you HAVE TO buy local... and so on.
Free market (where you are free to choose) is based on competition.
Competition is a base of progress.
Amen!

[slogan]

Frankly, I usually get better customer service, including relatively informed advice from online sellers. GPBikes is the only local shop that has come close, in my experience, for service and pricing, but it is still a far cry from what I expect.

BTW, now it sounds more like GPBikes in-line adds advertising

[wormburner]

If I can buy it on my iPad, while relaxing on my couch with a coffee in hand, (and save money) ....I'll do it every single time.

[slogan]

If I can buy it on my iPad, while relaxing on my couch with a coffee in hand, (and save money) ....I'll do it every single time.

The initial question is not about buying on iPad. The initial question was about using but not paying for free services offered by local stores.

[poukali]

Had to chime in on this interesting topic. Two things to consider when buying locally, 1) the cost of obtaining product. It's a very well known fact that the cost price of goods for our retailers is generally 10-20% give or take. 2) the cost of running a retail store is more expensive. Although a fair comparison would be to canadian e-tailers which are inline with traditional retailers.

US based retailers are not a fair barometer of what pricing should be in Canada because of the cost, duties, and taxes our domestic retailers pay are fare different from the south. I think all shops in the gta make the same margin on their products as they do down south of the border.

If this trends continues where we continue not to shop locally two things will occur. We will have a number of shops closing down, our choices become very limited and we will probably allow a couple of the largest shops in the area have a complete monopoly. At which point we will be discussing on here the gold old days and shops of the past we wish were still around.

Pouk


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[Rob MacLennan]

Had to chime in on this interesting topic. Two things to consider when buying locally, 1) the cost of obtaining product. It's a very well known fact that the cost price of goods for our retailers is generally 10-20% give or take. 2) the cost of running a retail store is more expensive. Although a fair comparison would be to canadian e-tailers which are inline with traditional retailers.

US based retailers are not a fair barometer of what pricing should be in Canada because of the cost, duties, and taxes our domestic retailers pay are fare different from the south. I think all shops in the gta make the same margin on their products as they do down south of the border.

If this trends continues where we continue not to shop locally two things will occur. We will have a number of shops closing down, our choices become very limited and we will probably allow a couple of the largest shops in the area have a complete monopoly. At which point we will be discussing on here the gold old days and shops of the past we wish were still around.

Pouk

Many of us are already lamenting the good ol' days, when we had so many shops to choose from.

[viper84737]

Many of us are already lamenting the good ol' days, when we had so many shops to choose from.

And when income:cost ratios were in general much more reasonable, too.

[Rob MacLennan]

And when income:cost ratios were in general much more reasonable, too.

Then you don't know what profit margins were like back then

[architect]

For gear, GPBikes offered the best service to me easily. I will always go back, and pay the 15% premium price to buy goods. I want to support local businesses and I enjoy the relationships I've built with the young guys that work the floor. They freely give advice without any pressure to buy. Even when I've gone back 3-4 times to look at the same helmet. I have purchased stuff online though, where it was a good 30-50% cheaper. But whenever I can, I will go back to GPBikes.

I've tried getting some OEM parts from Snowcity. Terrible experience over the phone, on several occasions, with the lady. She makes it sound like she's doing me a favour when I shop there. Never again.

People can bring back $800 of products from the border (instead of $400) duty free after 48 hours. $200 up from 50$ under 48$. I might try to make a trip to SBTG now What will this mean to local businesses?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windso...es-budget.html

[Brian P]

Another somewhat related pain with regards to shopping in Canada, is that it appears that the major distributors (Parts Canada, Motovan, etc) have gotten their distribution channels locked up. They only offer a sub-set of parts of their choosing, and then when you go to the local dealer, if it isn't in the catalog, it doesn't exist.

Meanwhile, the most basic of internet searches finds multiple choices for what you are looking for ...

The Canadian OEM distributors don't exactly help.

"I need a XXXX for a 1990 Yamaha FZR400". "Sorry, that model and year does not exist in the catalog." (Meanwhile, it's the exact same part as for a 1989 model, but the 1990 was only sold in the USA - which is where my bike came from.) Internet here we come; the part was on my doorstep in three days.

Or the related "Sorry, that part has been discontinued." Or, "Sorry, estimated delivery 6 months." Had it inside of a week.

[Rob MacLennan]

Another somewhat related pain with regards to shopping in Canada, is that it appears that the major distributors (Parts Canada, Motovan, etc) have gotten their distribution channels locked up. They only offer a sub-set of parts of their choosing, and then when you go to the local dealer, if it isn't in the catalog, it doesn't exist.

Meanwhile, the most basic of internet searches finds multiple choices for what you are looking for ...

The Canadian OEM distributors don't exactly help.

"I need a XXXX for a 1990 Yamaha FZR400". "Sorry, that model and year does not exist in the catalog." (Meanwhile, it's the exact same part as for a 1989 model, but the 1990 was only sold in the USA - which is where my bike came from.) Internet here we come; the part was on my doorstep in three days.

Or the related "Sorry, that part has been discontinued." Or, "Sorry, estimated delivery 6 months." Had it inside of a week.

Not to mention that they OEM distribution channel, with its additional layer of profit margin over the US model, is also at least partially responsible for the price differential.