Local Shops VS Online Dealers.....discuss.

[ronnie]

Okay, some of you know but most of you newer members have no idea that I've worked in various shops around the GTA. So yeah, i may sound a little biased but I'm just generally curious if the people who do this actually realize how douchebaggey like it is to go to your local shop and spend hours with one of the staff there trying on a million helmets, jackets, gloves, boots, etc. fully knowing that you are going to buy all that **** online anyways. Not to mention poring over all the catalogs and checking stock and prices online for you.

It's been happening for years and I guess it will always happen. People complain that they can buy certain products online for much cheaper than you can add a shop. I will not dispute that certain items are much cheaper online. will the online website spend hours and hours with you making sure that everything is a correct fit? Will the online retailer actually give you advice that may save your life someday? Will the online retailer be there when there something wrong and you need to change something that very day?

Just some food for thought here. I'm all for saving a buck when possible, but I'm also willing to pay for good service when it is valid. I am not saying that you should buy every single item knowing that you're getting gouged, I'm just saying sometimes it's okay to pay a little bit more for something because the service is good.

Anyways, I'm done ranting. I'm just wondering if the people who do this realize how uncool it can be. and for the ones to actually understand that supporting your local shop actually keeps pricing down in a long run, I salute you.

[slogan]

C'mon! Business is business - you survive or you got out of.

You cannot ask ppl to pay just to support someone's business. Local shops? Well... Why do not those "local shops" buy "my services" to support me?

I think, if "local shops" want to compete with "online" - they have to offer something, that "online" never will be able to provide. Otherwise, sorry man - the lower price is the lower price

[AF4iK]

I understand where you're coming from and I bet it gets frustrating. Totally not cool to take advantage of a business like that. Sort of like eating the free bread at a restaurant and then leaving. But here's another perspective for thought...

I buy local and online. I definitely also window shop locally for something I plan to purchase online. But when I do, I don't ask for assistance from staff except to maybe ask if they carry the item of interest. If a sales rep approaches me I usually respond with "thanks, just looking around". If they get overzealous I try to drop a hint that I don't plan on buying anything today. If they persist, well... that's their fault. Pushy sales reps don't have the right to complain IMO (not saying that you are). Owners could hang a sign on the window saying "only committed buyers may enter" or "no money, no entry" or "buy something or get the **** lost!" lol but who's gonna do that? If you open a brick n' mortar store you accept that not everyone who walks through the door is gonna buy something.

[ronnie]

C'mon! Business is business - you survive or you got out of.

You cannot ask ppl to pay just to support someone's business. Local shops? Well... Why do not those "local shops" buy "my services" to support me?

I think, if "local shops" want to compete with "online" - they have to offer something, that "online" never will be able to provide. Otherwise, sorry man - the lower price is the lower price

you just said that if local shops want to compete they should be able to offer something that online shops can't provide? What about all those things that I listed? Like making sure everything fits, like offering advice, like actually taking an interest in you, like giving you tips, anything like that? If you can honestly tell me that you have never ever benefited from a shop before then I understand. An online shop will never ever be able to fit you in a helmets that may save your life someday in a proper way. An online shop will not provide somebody that will sit there and shoot the **** with you for as long as it takes to have you comfortable with something. An online shop will never provide a place where you can go and just chill out with other riders randomly. an online shop won't be able to help you out in a bind if you're broke down on the side of the road in the area. there are countless things that real-life local shops are good for that I am sure you have benefited from at some point. If you've never ever benefited from it and then I understand if not then my point is kind of proven.

[ronnie]

I understand where you're coming from and I bet it gets frustrating. Totally not cool to take advantage of a business like that. Sort of like eating the free bread at a restaurant and then leaving. But here's another perspective for thought...

I buy local and online. I definitely also window shop locally for something I plan to purchase online. But when I do, I don't ask for assistance from staff except to maybe ask if they carry the item of interest. If a sales rep approaches me I usually respond with "thanks, just looking around". If they get overzealous I try to drop a hint that I don't plan on buying anything today. If they persist, well... that's their fault. Pushy sales reps don't have the right to complain IMO (not saying that you are). Owners could hang a sign on the window saying "only committed buyers may enter" or "no money, no entry" or "buy something or get the **** lost!" lol but who's gonna do that? If you open a brick n' mortar store you accept that not everyone who walks through the door is gonna buy something.

Thank you for your perspective. I can totally respect that and I cannot agree with you. Like I said, I'm all for saving a buck whenever I can, I'm all for getting the best value that I can for my money. I'm not rich, not many of us on this forum are rich either. I'm just saying that it's really really unrad for people to totally rape us knowing full well that they will not spend a penny with us ever.

For example, if that arai helmets is $500 online, the very same helmet at the shop is $1000, I would of course not expect you to buy the helmet at the shop. But if the shop can spend an hour sending you for that very same helmet and bring their price down to $550 only to have you still walk away just because of its $50 more expensive, that's douchebaggery foooooooshooooooooo.

[jc100]

If the store is only a little more expensive than online then that's fine, I'll buy at the store. Way more expensive then I'll ask for a best price and mention online price plus shipping. No deal then I'll walk.

[RedDogDarren]

Agreed.

Build a relationship with the shop and get the best of all worlds. Win-win.

[ronnie]

If the store is only a little more expensive than online then that's fine, I'll buy at the store. Way more expensive then I'll ask for a best price and mention online price plus shipping. No deal then I'll walk.

you do the same thing that I do and I work at one. Ha ha ha. Your perspective is respectable, cheers.

[slogan]

you just said that if local shops want to compete they should be able to offer something that online shops can't provide? What about all those things that I listed? Like making sure everything fits, like offering advice, like actually taking an interest in you, like giving you tips, anything like that? If you can honestly tell me that you have never ever benefited from a shop before then I understand. An online shop will never ever be able to fit you in a helmets that may save your life someday in a proper way. An online shop will not provide somebody that will sit there and shoot the **** with you for as long as it takes to have you comfortable with something. An online shop will never provide a place where you can go and just chill out with other riders randomly. an online shop won't be able to help you out in a bind if you're broke down on the side of the road in the area. there are countless things that real-life local shops are good for that I am sure you have benefited from at some point. If you've never ever benefited from it and then I understand if not then my point is kind of proven.

Well, that's exactly what I am saying!
This is a market, and each seller has to "fight" for customers You cannot make someone to buy the things from you only because you can do something "extra for free" unless this "something for free" comes only after the purchase
But you can behave with a customer the way he will be really willing to buy something from YOU. I don't know... because he/she likes your smile, your opinion, your support, comfort, whatever... that's some marketing question...

A lot of sales assistance, actually, do opposite: trying to sale the stuff, they start "pushing" customer, giving thousands of standard-meaningless advices. That creates a negative reaction...

[AF4iK]

Thank you for your perspective. I can totally respect that and I cannot agree with you. Like I said, I'm all for saving a buck whenever I can, I'm all for getting the best value that I can for my money. I'm not rich, not many of us on this forum are rich either. I'm just saying that it's really really unrad for people to totally rape us knowing full well that they will not spend a penny with us ever.

For example, if that arai helmets is $500 online, the very same helmet at the shop is $1000, I would of course not expect you to buy the helmet at the shop. But if the shop can spend an hour sending you for that very same helmet and bring their price down to $550 only to have you still walk away just because of its $50 more expensive, that's douchebaggery foooooooshooooooooo.

hmm... I don't see how it "rapes" anyone if someone walks in to browse. Or were you referring to your first scenario? Even then, taking up a lot of a sales person's time might cost the business potential revenue and it might not. Far from a raping though. If someone can save even a buck buying elsewhere that's there prerogative and no one has the right to tell the customer how much their dollar is worth to them.

[coyo]

I'm starting to find that prices seem to be coming more in line with the online retailers, making it far more appealing to buy on our side of the border.

I totally agree; I'd spend A BIT MORE to buy an item in a local shop rather than online... but when I'm being robbed, I'll place the online order.

[Jampy00]

I find most "local shops" in many cases don't do anything to get or deserve to keep your business. I personally feel this is more about service and less about price. When the service lacks the price becomes the only factor to negotiate with. I can tell you 7 times out of 10 I want into a shop with the intent to buy, only to feel I am "interrupting" the staff's day. I am them forced into one of two actions, ask for service or seak another service. The fact that online shopping is so popular only goes to show the flaws we see with local businesses. It is a sad fact, I for one would love to have a local stop and shop for my needs.

[Griffin]

I'm willing to pay a premium to buy from a local shop - say 10% - but not 50-100% which is sometimes the norm.. However, when that local shop has no idea about customer service, than no, I have no concern about trying on for size and buying elsewhere, online or otherwise. I've NEVER been in a shop and gotten much help with fit of anything and never benefited from informed, professional advice. Best I've ever had from any shop is some half-informed, opinionated advice.

Frankly, I usually get better customer service, including relatively informed advice from online sellers. GPBikes is the only local shop that has come close, in my experience, for service and pricing, but it is still a far cry from what I expect.

[jaymurr]

When I go into a shop with that intention, I flat out tell them I found the item online and I'm looking for sizing and comfort. I also tell them if we can get close on price I would rather buy from them.

Sometimes they walk away, other times they try to negotiate price, and occasionally they'll start suggesting other products that might be better for various reasons.

I've left with the product I came for, more research to be done on a new product, and I've purchased things from my phone in the parking lot.

I will not pay a 50-200% premium to shop locally, nor will I lie about my intentions.

[xSVRiderx]

I actually did the opposite...I spent countless hours on the internet first and decided on all the gear I wanted and sizes..Then I went to my local shop and had it all ordered..I ordered boots, gloves and a jacket all of which fit perfect..Prices were actually the same as or cheaper than the prices I found online..

I order some parts online but all my gear has came from my local shop and will continue too until they either raise their prices or I am unhappy with the service..

[braveheart]

If I know a Part # of what i want, i will always get it online. Its usually way cheaper online than it is in a local store.

But some of the item you are talking about, i would never purchase on the internet. A Helmet ? really ? who would do that ?
something so important as that, would have to be tried on, and if it fits, that onethat im holding is the one I would buy, I wouldnt even get one from an unopened box, i would be the exact one i tried on.

same with anything other thing that tyou have to try on for size.

[cbowman78]

Last time I used a local shop (Royal Distributing) I got the biggest run around and they got me into gear that did not fit like it should have. Jacket way to big, helmet to big. I was new at riding and didnt know any better.

I now use Riders Discount who offers me superior advice over most local shops (not all) and the price that cant be beat. I have built up quite a relationship with one of the staff members there and enjoy purchasing from them.

So, local shops are not always the best route. Lot of them just want your money like any other business and offer very little to justify the massive difference in pricing from online.

Okay, some of you know but most of you newer members have no idea that I've worked in various shops around the GTA. So yeah, i may sound a little biased but I'm just generally curious if the people who do this actually realize how douchebaggey like it is to go to your local shop and spend hours with one of the staff there trying on a million helmets, jackets, gloves, boots, etc. fully knowing that you are going to buy all that **** online anyways. Not to mention poring over all the catalogs and checking stock and prices online for you.

It's been happening for years and I guess it will always happen. People complain that they can buy certain products online for much cheaper than you can add a shop. I will not dispute that certain items are much cheaper online. will the online website spend hours and hours with you making sure that everything is a correct fit? Will the online retailer actually give you advice that may save your life someday? Will the online retailer be there when there something wrong and you need to change something that very day?

Just some food for thought here. I'm all for saving a buck when possible, but I'm also willing to pay for good service when it is valid. I am not saying that you should buy every single item knowing that you're getting gouged, I'm just saying sometimes it's okay to pay a little bit more for something because the service is good.

Anyways, I'm done ranting. I'm just wondering if the people who do this realize how uncool it can be. and for the ones to actually understand that supporting your local shop actually keeps pricing down in a long run, I salute you.

[Spiider]

I have the opposite problem....retailers that have one of each item in stock for "trying on".

I go in and figure out exactly what I want, and then they say "sorry, we have to order that"....you know what? I can order online too...I often tell them that. I go into a local store because I want it in my hand when I leave, as long as the price isn't insanely wrong I'll buy locally every single time to try and support keeping shops open.

The problem is that almost every company has become a catalog order company...the ****** accountants of the world told people not to carry inventory because it is "bad to have capital tied up"...well you also don't get my sale if you don't have it in stock.

This is where the owners of the company should put on their big boy underpants and tell the accountants to stfu and go count some beans.

[cbcanada]

This is a very dear subject to me. I own a shop where i sell jewellery, the same things happen in our industry I have seen people choose to go online for very small differences in price so i am not surprised and i do not blame them. Its their hard earned money and i would do the same!

Most retailers rip the buyers severly and have been for years. I sell a diamond for $3000 and spence diamonds a supposed wholesaler sells the same for $7000!

So who is at fault? The buyers for not agreeing to pay more to support the retailers luxury? Lets be real !

Yes as retailers we have way more costs and yes this is our bread money and we need to make a living... But business is business

The internet is not going away, so you adapt. Swim or drown. What i did 5 years ago was to move into a very cheap low cost location and pinched every penny to bring my operating cost to lowest. Its a shabby place but i still offer the best service and prices so thats all that matters.

My customers come to me because not only do i give them better then internet prices but i also give them service and advice. In the last 5 years i have never not been able to beat an internet price! What you have to do is accept to make less money and still
Offer great service. Then your customer will say "wow same price and personal service, bette then the internet woohooo". Thats what a bike shop or any other small shop has gotta do too! Dont use the the service you offer as a trump card for charging more.

Its hard out there. Thank GOD i survive. But i am one of the most connected people in our business and i get merchandise for
Way less then others.... others are not surviving. Cuz they refuse to change. I also started selling wholesale direct to the public so i can beat any price on the internet! The idea is you accept change and agree to make less profits and you donwhat you can

i am not greedy i make WAY waaaay less money Then all others in my business but i am on safer ground. I make less then 100k annually. I live in a 180k home with a mortgage, i drive a mitsubishi and my bike is like $2000. I do not mind still i know that what i make is still better then most people out thete but some would think "hey you are rich you sell gold n diamonds" lol but i m not

Bike shops or any shop will need to eventually match internet prices by lowering their operating costs and restructuring their business. Its economic evolution

There u have some very honest input into whats going on in small business world

By the way i will add and say that i know my opinion as stated here is not shared by 95% off other retailers.... So please no hate mail from other shop owners

[ronnie]

To be honest, I agree that there can be some really garbage shops out there. I also agree that if the service is **** then you should spend your money elsewhere. The raping terminology comes from somebody who has literally spent hours upon hours trying every single piece of equipment on knowing that they are not going to buy anything at all.

I will say though, that I have made some very good friends out of "customers" that have walked into a shop that I have worked at, some of them on this very forum. As in dude or dudette, walks in and has some questions or want to buy something, we end up going riding afterwards and we're friends. Voila!! idiggthat fo shooooooo.