turning right from middle lane

[PLau]

Assuming all solid green.

Blue car must yield to red car, despite red car making an illegal turn. Blue car has a duty to make sure that the way is clear, prior to making his turn.

Green car must yield to pink car, for the same reason stated above.

Or, in my preferred situation (which wouldn't be supported under law), all of the idiots making illegal turns would get hammered for it. They screw with traffic flow and create hazardous situations.

Wouldn't this be a situation you would want to fight in court then since its a collision between someone that is doing something legal vs illegal?

[Rob MacLennan]

Wouldn't this be a situation you would want to fight in court then since its a collision between someone that is doing something legal vs illegal?

Of course I would fight it. I would just as certainly lose, but tilting at windmills is sort of my shtick.

[BusaBob]

That's because it's legal.

on a red?

[Baggsy]

I used to "love" turning north on British Columbia from eastbound Lakeshore.
People keep turning left from the live passing lane, instead of the left turn lane.

Eventually, I found an alternate route as so many people were making the same mistake over and over.

[Rob MacLennan]

on a red?

Yup.

[djltoronto]

Wouldn't this be a situation you would want to fight in court then since its a collision between someone that is doing something legal vs illegal?

you could fight it in court till you're blue in the face - but your insurance company will have already deemed you 100% at fault for the collision, regardless of the outcome in court for some minor traffic ticket.

[ViperZ]

I wish I had a dashcam 'cause I see a TTC bus doing it often outside where I work.

You do realize that buses and long trucks require more space to make a turn than car/bike, right?

[Splash]

You do realize that buses and long trucks require more space to make a turn than car/bike, right?

you do realize that's not what I'm talking about?

3 lanes... One turning right, one turning left and one going straight. HUGE line waiting to turn left, TTC bus in the middle lane by-passing everyone and turns left.

[toysareforboys]

on a red?

There is no way this can be legal! I got pulled over for it last year, right by my house! http://g.co/maps/774hm There was a car broken down in the right lane, almost into the intersection, light was red. I changed to the center lane, stopped, and turned right into the the left hand lane (as would be expected if we could both turn right at the same time). The cop pulled me over and said you can only turn right on red from the right most lane! Let me off with a warning (also said I changed lanes too close to the intersection, how the F am I supposed to maneuver around the disabled car then!?).

I searched and searched the HTA and couldn't find a reference to why I would have gotten a ticket (for turning right from middle lane on red).

-Jamie M.

[BusaBob]

Yup.

can you point out to me where it says that?
i only ask 'cause you seem to know and i don't feel like going cross eyed reading e-laws HTA.

honestly, i thought you were only allowed to make a right had turn on a red from the right most lane.

[Splash]

can you point out to me where it says that?
i only ask 'cause you seem to know and i don't feel like going cross eyed reading e-laws HTA.

honestly, i thought you were only allowed to make a right had turn on a red from the right most lane.

You can't prove a negative... but nowhere in the HTA does it say you can't do it.

Also, it was posted already... See post #20


Right turn at intersection
(2) Where a driver or operator of a vehicle intends to turn to the right into an intersecting highway, he or she shall, where the highway on which he or she is driving has marked lanes for traffic, approach the intersection within the right-hand lane or, where it has no such marked lanes, by keeping immediately to the left of the right curb or edge of the roadway and he or she shall make the right turn by entering the right-hand lane of the intersecting highway where the lane is marked or, where no such lane is marked, by keeping immediately to the left of the right curb or edge of the roadway being entered. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 141 (2).
Right turn, where multiple lanes
(3) Despite subsection (2), where more than one lane of a highway has been designated as a right-turn lane, the driver or operator of a vehicle intending to turn to the right into an intersecting highway shall approach the intersection in one of the lanes and leave the intersection in the lane of the intersecting highway that corresponds to the lane from which the turn was commenced. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 141 (3).


Red light
(18 )Every driver approaching a traffic control signal showing a circular red indication and facing the indication shall stop his or her vehicle and shall not proceed until a green indication is shown. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 144 (18 ).


Exception – turn
(19) Despite subsection (18 ) and subject to subsection (14), a driver, after stopping his or her vehicle and yielding the right of way to traffic lawfully approaching so closely that to proceed would constitute an immediate hazard, may,
(a) turn to the right; or
(b) turn to the left from a one-way street into a one-way street,
without a green indication being shown. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 144 (19).

[Rob MacLennan]

There is no way this can be legal! I got pulled over for it last year, right by my house! http://g.co/maps/774hm There was a car broken down in the right lane, almost into the intersection, light was red. I changed to the center lane, stopped, and turned right into the the left hand lane (as would be expected if we could both turn right at the same time). The cop pulled me over and said you can only turn right on red from the right most lane! Let me off with a warning (also said I changed lanes too close to the intersection, how the F am I supposed to maneuver around the disabled car then!?).

I searched and searched the HTA and couldn't find a reference to why I would have gotten a ticket (for turning right from middle lane on red).

-Jamie M.

Your mistake was in turning into the LEFT lane. You should have turned into the RIGHT lane, as there was no second left turn lane.

[spd]

isnt HTA dissection fun

since we are talking about the laws of turns, I have an interesting story


a few years ago I worked as a contractor to the Ontario govt and its agencies

I was at a DriveTest center in Thunder Bay and was with the manager of the center going over paperwork, until he had to take a call

the person on the phone was furious because she failed her driving test, for the following reason:

she made a [b]right[b/] turn during an advanced left arrow.

she made the turn properly - stopping, right lane to right lane, etc


failed instantly. do not pass go, do not collect $200.



now, apparently, the directive to drive centers is (or at least was at the time) that that is an illegal maneuver. i saw the memo myself.


here is the statute they use(d) to support this directive:

144 (14)

Every driver approaching a traffic control signal showing one or more green arrow indications only or in combination with a circular red or circular amber indication and facing the indication may proceed only to follow the direction shown by the arrow. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 144 (14).

I think it's a real stretch to say that a driver in the RIGHT lane is "facing" an advanced left arrow. The ministry and DriveTest have got it wrong, in my opinion.

I can't imagine how furious I'd be if I failed for that.

And there's essentially no recourse for someone finding themselves in that position.


thoughts?

[Rob MacLennan]

What I think, is that this is directly contradicted by their own Driver's Handbook.

[Lyndsay]

In the sketch, that eastbound set of lanes would make for some very frequent collisions. You show it being legal to go straight through in the right lane, while the lane to your left can turn right. I would imagine there would never be a situation like that. The right lane would be right turn only.

[djltoronto]

Your mistake was in turning into the LEFT lane. You should have turned into the RIGHT lane, as there was no second left turn lane.

But there was a second right turn lane, and he was turning right, from the middle lane (which is a right & left turn lane), and he should end up in the left lane, which he said he did.

http://g.co/maps/774hm

[toysareforboys]

But there was a second right turn lane, and he was turning right, from the middle lane (which is a right & left turn lane), and he should end up in the left lane, which he said he did.

http://g.co/maps/774hm

Yep, as far as I could tell I did everything right!

-Jamie M.

[Rob MacLennan]

Yup, I'm wrong. If you turned from the centre lane, then you had to turn into the second lane. I'm betting that the officer was nailing you for crossing the solid white line, with his "moved to late" comment, though there's no law against it. Been nailed for it myself. Attempted, anyway.

[toysareforboys]

Yup, I'm wrong. If you turned from the centre lane, then you had to turn into the second lane. I'm betting that the officer was nailing you for crossing the solid white line, with his "moved to late" comment, though there's no law against it. Been nailed for it myself. Attempted, anyway.

Yeah, that was probably it

I wonder why they provide dashed guide lines for the left turners, but not the middle lane right turners? http://g.co/maps/zqyjn

-Jamie M.

[djltoronto]

Yeah, that was probably it

I wonder why they provide dashed guide lines for the left turners, but not the middle lane right turners? http://g.co/maps/zqyjn

-Jamie M.

Good question for the traffic department. - maybe they were trying to save $$$ on paint?
Is there an email address for the township/city whoever might own this responsibility?