Destroyed my clean record. Got a question!

[Corsara]

Every morning I drive down a road (with the car), and there is a traffic light for a left turn at one point that sometimes gets quite backed up. When I'm late, I make a left turn into one of the residential streets ahead of the traffic light, then I make a right turn and in this way I bypass the traffic light.

This is what I did today too, only that there was a cop waiting for me in that residential street. I thought he stopped me just to check my documents, but little did I know. Turns out that this left turn is prohibited from 7am to 9am. That was news to me, I've been doing that for years, I honestly didn't know that the turn is not allowed!

So, I got an $80 fine for "make prohibited left turn, City of Hamilton by-law 01-215.14".

Here is the problem:

I'll be buying my first super sport (GSXR750) in the summer, and I am afraid that this ticket will influence the insurance rates, which are high enough to begin with.

That said, is it worth pleading not-guilty and hope I get a trial date AFTER I get my new bike? Obviously I'm guilty because I did make the turn, so it's about strategy rather than avoiding the small fine. How about "Plea of Guilty with Submissions", or that would be just the same as "Guilty" for the insurance purposes?

[daisoman]

Always fight any ticket. Also don't take guilty with a lesser fine and the insurance company still considers that guilty.

Worst case your found guilty. Pray he doesn't show and your. Regardless extend it until you get your quote for your 750

[Corsara]

Always fight any ticket. Also don't take guilty with a lesser fine and the insurance company still considers that guilty.

Worst case your found guilty. Pray he doesn't show and your. Regardless extend it until you get your quote for your 750

Thanks! Just to confirm: if I want to fight the ticket, can it possibly become any worse?

[Baggsy]

Go back and check the signage.
If you haven't noticed it in years then there may be an obstruction in front of the sign.
Take pictures, if it's obstructed.

Sometimes these blitzes are due to complaints.
People get written up and the complainant is happy.
Officer gets busy and can't make it to court.
Offender gets off the hook, is happy, and never makes the same mistake.
Win-win-win.

[Corsara]

Go back and check the signage.
If you haven't noticed it in years then there may be an obstruction in front of the sign.
Take pictures, if it's obstructed.

Sometimes these blitzes are due to complaints.
People get written up and the complainant is happy.
Officer gets busy and can't make it to court.
Offender gets off the hook, is happy, and never makes the same mistake.
Win-win-win.

I can't wait work to finish to go home and see where the sign is!

[eastcoast_gsx]

I can't wait work to finish to go home and see where the sign is!

Try google street view

[Corsara]

Try google street view

Great idea! Here it is, but it's on the right side of the road while my eyes should be on the left keeping an eye to oncoming traffic before I turn!!!!! I think I have a case here!!!

http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=queen+%...&cbp=12,0,,0,0

[eastcoast_gsx]

There is one on the left as well.

http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=queen+%...2,,0,5.35&z=16

PS: They are stopping that manouver due to folks using the neighborhood to bypass the busy morning intersection (like you were doing).

[Corsara]

There is one on the left as well.

http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=queen+%...2,,0,5.35&z=16

PS: They are stopping that manouver due to folks using the neighborhood to bypass the busy morning intersection (like you were doing).

Damn, there is. I wonder if it is hidden by the trees like this at the moment. I'll definitely go take some pictures. The truth is that I really haven't seen it before, otherwise I wouldn't have turned in the first place!

That said, if I want to go to court but don't show up at the appointed trail date, does it get worse or just the same as if I pleaded guilty now?

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk

[daisoman]

In my experience worst case you are found guilty and have to pay said fine. Nothing added maybe late fee but nothing worse for ur record.

[vkhamphi]

Every morning I drive down a road (with the car), and there is a traffic light for a left turn at one point that sometimes gets quite backed up. When I'm late, I make a left turn into one of the residential streets ahead of the traffic light, then I make a right turn and in this way I bypass the traffic light.

This is what I did today too, only that there was a cop waiting for me in that residential street. I thought he stopped me just to check my documents, but little did I know. Turns out that this left turn is prohibited from 7am to 9am. That was news to me, I've been doing that for years, I honestly didn't know that the turn is not allowed!

So, I got an $80 fine for "make prohibited left turn, City of Hamilton by-law 01-215.14".

Here is the problem:

I'll be buying my first super sport (GSXR750) in the summer, and I am afraid that this ticket will influence the insurance rates, which are high enough to begin with.

That said, is it worth pleading not-guilty and hope I get a trial date AFTER I get my new bike? Obviously I'm guilty because I did make the turn, so it's about strategy rather than avoiding the small fine. How about "Plea of Guilty with Submissions", or that would be just the same as "Guilty" for the insurance purposes?

It's a by-law offence not HTA, won't even appear on your driving record. Pay it or fight it, means nothing to driving record.

[ZX600]

It's a by-law offence not HTA, won't even appear on your driving record. Pay it or fight it, means nothing to driving record.

This is wrong

[vkhamphi]

This is wrong

Really? Please explain. OP just posted the by-law infraction.

[250R-ICE]

I would fight it and state that the sign is past the intersection and not in advance of the intersection. One could argue that you thought that the sign meant no left turns past the intersection.

If you want to get technical, research the Manual of Uniform Traffic Control Devices and look in the section regarding signage. There may be some guidelines about sign placement spacing, distance from travelled lane, advancements of intersections etc.

[iFly55]

by-law infractions "can" appear on your driving record

and this one "could" carry two demerit points

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/reg...s_940339_e.htm

Item #29: Prohibited Turns - 2 demerit points

Section 143 and subsection 144 (9) and any municipal by-law prohibiting turns

[vkhamphi]

by-law infractions "can" appear on your driving record

and this one "could" carry two demerit points

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/reg...s_940339_e.htm

It can but unless you have lots of demerit points I wouldn't worry. Insurance companies don't care about demerit points, just convictions. I got the same ticket in Toronto and the cop was nice and wrote it up as a by-law infraction instead of HTA but it was $3.75 plus some fee of $15.00 which made it $18.75.

[eastcoast_gsx]

I would fight it and state that the sign is past the intersection and not in advance of the intersection. One could argue that you thought that the sign meant no left turns past the intersection.

If you want to get technical, research the Manual of Uniform Traffic Control Devices and look in the section regarding signage. There may be some guidelines about sign placement spacing, distance from travelled lane, advancements of intersections etc.

In most major intersections the signage is on the far side of the intersection (on the traffic light poles, etc...) so I don't think that will fly at all...

[Corsara]

I'll try to quote my conversation with the officer:

---------------------
Me: (handing him the license, registration and insurance slip)
Officer: Is your record clean?
Me: Yes
Officer: I'll check it and if it is clean, I'll write the offence under by-law.. (goes back to car)
....
(returns, hands me the slip) This will have no demerit points.
Me: Is it going to affect my insurance?
Officer: They won't know until you get a new policy (..or renew)
--------------------

So I don't know. I don't want to risk it, or my wife might start disagreeing about the new bike if the insurance is too high.. I'll just state not guilty and then when the time comes, most probably I won't waste the time to go to court for nothing apparently. The signs are clearly there, I checked after work, and both are quite visible to my regret...

[GayManLoveIsOK]

i would be arguing that the sign is blocked and hard to see (one on the left)...regardless of the sign on the right hand side of the street, it does not give you adequate warning for no left turn, they should have put it before the turn and not "in the intersection" at least that is how i see it...if you have the time and money, i would show up in court and argue it. you have a clean record, if it's an honest mistake, to me it's worth it...no point the city putting signs up that you can't read properly.

[vkhamphi]

I'll try to quote my conversation with the officer:

---------------------
Me: (handing him the license, registration and insurance slip)
Officer: Is your record clean?
Me: Yes
Officer: I'll check it and if it is clean, I'll write the offence under by-law.. (goes back to car)
....
(returns, hands me the slip) This will have no demerit points.
Me: Is it going to affect my insurance?
Officer: They won't know until you get a new policy (..or renew)
--------------------

So I don't know. I don't want to risk it, or my wife might start disagreeing about the new bike if the insurance is too high.. I'll just state not guilty and then when the time comes, most probably I won't waste the time to go to court for nothing apparently. The signs are clearly there, I checked after work, and both are quite visible to my regret...

You can call MTO if you want but I'm pretty sure the by-law offence does nothing to your driver's abstract.