Fire department Bill

[OpenGambit]

Maybe there is some misunderstanding, because I am not doubting that it happens. I am questioning the existence of a problem that the charges are placed on the shoulders of those who can not afford it. If anything, your post shows that it isn't a problem --

"The process of recovering costs doesn't require the name of the homeowner, just the name of the insurance adjuster and the policy number.
"We're not interested in who the homeowner or property owner is, we're just interested in looking at the property insurance file."

This indicates that they aren't going after the property owner.

As I stated above, I see no real issue with user fees and they are very common.

If the problem is really only academic, then I guess I have a hard time finding that offensive.

[Platinum Cycle]

An argument can be made for user fees for any service, fire, police, schools, library cards, public recreation facilities etc.

I'm not sure however everyone would be in favour or a user fee for a Fire Dept or say Police for example. Perhaps some people would be okay having to pay the police to try and find out who broke into their house or assaulted their loved ones.

I'd hate to have to contemplate the police dept "user fee" if I asked them to investigate an assault against one of my children. My feeling is that I would just assume my taxes already fund the police service, I have to admit I naively assume that about the fire dept too.

Here's the bottom line, at least from my perspective:

Socitey as a whole benefits greatly from Fire and Police Service. We should all pay our taxes to support these services so they can protect. That way, if we ever need them at the worst moment of our lives, they are there to help us.

[taximan62]

Fire dept. assumes you have auto, bike or home insurance. Therefore they don't expect the individual to pay out of pocket and that's also why those bills are high.

Yes but who do you think really pays???? All those bills the insurer pays eventually end up our cost in higher premiums!

[moe-2]

If anyone gets into an accident and the hose monkeys show up and ask for your documents tell them to kick rocks. They only are suppose to obtain the accident number from the police.

Incident occurred few months ago when a friend of mine got into a single motor vehicle property damage where she was going to fix her damage herself. Fire showed up sprinkled some absorbol where her vehicle was leaking fluids (the tow who hooked up her vehicle sprinkinled that already on the ground). She gave them her insurance info and they billed her insurance company $800.

[moto22]

I have never actually heard of a case where a guy's house burned down and then went bankrupt because he was unable to pay the fire department bill.

have you? or are you rallying against something that doesn't really exist?

Bankruptcy is besides the point here really ,the last thing i would imagine a person would need is a bill from the fire department after a house fire, if he or she has the ability to pay is irrelevant because the point is there should be no bill in the first place ,since those services are fully funded though public money as i mentioned before you would be paying twice for the same thing and there is no good reason for that .


Not rallying against anything that doesn't really exist, these bills do exist and are being handed out daily and shouldn't be.

[backmarkerducati]

My limited understanding is that the bill gets sent to people that are from outside the geographical property tax jurisdiction (each area may be different). So if your house burns down odds are it is inside the tax jurisdiction.

For vehicle accidents, there is a better chance that you live outside of the jurisdiction you crashed in. If you have a minor unscheduled dismount pull yourself together and get moving ASAP (even if it means pushing the bike down the street). That way if someone called 911 you will not be there to get the bill. If you are seriously hurt and cannot do this, well you should be happy to pay the bill.

[OpenGambit]

Bankruptcy is besides the point here really ,the last thing i would imagine a person would need is a bill from the fire department after a house fire, if he or she has the ability to pay is irrelevant because the point is there should be no bill in the first place ,since those services are fully funded though public money as i mentioned before you would be paying twice for the same thing and there is no good reason for that .


Not rallying against anything that doesn't really exist, these bills do exist and are being handed out daily and shouldn't be.

The post quoted above shows that these bills only go to insurance companies, I don't see a problem with that period.

and the paying twice for the same thing idea is just wrong.

[OpenGambit]

An argument can be made for user fees for any service, fire, police, schools, library cards, public recreation facilities etc.

I'm not sure however everyone would be in favour or a user fee for a Fire Dept or say Police for example. Perhaps some people would be okay having to pay the police to try and find out who broke into their house or assaulted their loved ones.

I'd hate to have to contemplate the police dept "user fee" if I asked them to investigate an assault against one of my children. My feeling is that I would just assume my taxes already fund the police service, I have to admit I naively assume that about the fire dept too.

Here's the bottom line, at least from my perspective:

Socitey as a whole benefits greatly from Fire and Police Service. We should all pay our taxes to support these services so they can protect. That way, if we ever need them at the worst moment of our lives, they are there to help us.

I dont' see any police bills, that is completely hypthetical. and your example is still just insurance companies being billed. So whats the problem there really?

[nobbie48]

My problem with new fees is that they fudge the tax numbers. Most taxes are increased by inflation so percentage increases come automatically like cost of living raises. New fees from any government department are a sign of incompetence of the present or previous governments.
The system is like a gigantic shell game that is so screwed up Solomon couldn't fix it.

[FiReSTaRT]

My problem with new fees is that they fudge the tax numbers. Most taxes are increased by inflation so percentage increases come automatically like cost of living raises. New fees from any government department are a sign of incompetence of the present or previous governments.
The system is like a gigantic shell game that is so screwed up Solomon couldn't fix it.

I have 2 issues with your statement:

1) You are assuming that the salaries went up with inflation. They didn't even cover 1/3 of the inflation over the last 30 years.

2) There have also been major and frequent tax incentives given to companies so they hold off on outsourcing their work for another couple of months - businesses are paying less and less every year

[nobbie48]

I have 2 issues with your statement:

1) You are assuming that the salaries went up with inflation. They didn't even cover 1/3 of the inflation over the last 30 years.

2) There have also been major and frequent tax incentives given to companies so they hold off on outsourcing their work for another couple of months - businesses are paying less and less every year

All part of the shell game. Corporate bail outs and subsidies to pork barreling special interest groups. The problem is international so there's little we can do as individuals.
Smoke and mirrors floor to ceiling.

[moto22]

The post quoted above shows that these bills only go to insurance companies, I don't see a problem with that period.

and the paying twice for the same thing idea is just wrong.

Well there is a bit of problem

Problem number one is they try sending the bill to your insurance company first, if your insurance company refuses to pay, which they are these days,"the bill will be sent directly to you," with the threat of being put in collections for none payment.


The second problem is we all pay for increased costs in claims,if the insurances companies choose to accept the bills,that shouldn't be in the first place because these services are fully funded through public money.

Thirdly where does this sneaky city tax end.


Fourthly no one can say definitively where this money is going,what its being used for,and who is giving over site to that .

[OpenGambit]

Problem number one is they try sending the bill to your insurance company first, if your insurance company refuses to pay, which they are these days,"the bill will be sent directly to you," with the threat of being put in collections for none payment.


The second problem is we all pay for increased costs in claims,if the insurances companies choose to accept the bills,that shouldn't be in the first place because these services are fully funded through public money.
.

I am still waiting for some evidence to show that the indivdual is being asked to pay.

your claim that the services are "fully funded through public money" is not supported by anything.

[moto22]

I am still waiting for some evidence to show that the indivdual is being asked to pay.

your claim that the services are "fully funded through public money" is not supported by anything.

I had a bike accident 09 my insurance refused to pay so i was sent the bill i refuse to pay .

Emergency Services: Municipalities are now fully responsible for paying for local policing services, including those provided to municipalities by the Ontario Provincial Police (OPP) services. Municipalities also have new fire prevention responsibilities. Land ambulance is a health and emergency service that is being transferred to municipalities, although the province still funds approximately 50% of the costs.

1997 report.

Like i said it's shared costs are between the municipality and the province thats the facts ..

[OpenGambit]

I had a bike accident 09 my insurance refused to pay so i was sent the bill i refuse to pay .

Emergency Services: Municipalities are now fully responsible for paying for local policing services, including those provided to municipalities by the Ontario Provincial Police (OPP) services. Municipalities also have new fire prevention responsibilities. Land ambulance is a health and emergency service that is being transferred to municipalities, although the province still funds approximately 50% of the costs.

1997 report.

Like i said it's shared costs are between the municipality and the province thats the facts ..

And the resulting collections action and impact on your credit rating?? if that doesn't exist.. an impark ticket means more.

nothing is "fully paid for" as long as we run deficits.

[moto22]

And the resulting collections action and impact on your credit rating?? if that doesn't exist.. an impark ticket means more.

nothing is "fully paid for" as long as we run deficits.

Really has nothing to do with your credit rating, no money has been borrowed from the fire department, and isn't reportable to any credit agency.

It's not mine or your responsibility to pay emergency services or the defects we elected officials to do that. we have done are part by all the tax we pay.

[OpenGambit]

Really has nothing to do with your credit rating, no money has been borrowed from the fire department, and isn't reportable to any credit agency.

It's not mine or your responsibility to pay emergency services or the defects we elected officials to do that. we have done are part by all the tax we pay.

you are wrong. not only debts that are the result of borrowed money is reportable to credit agencies.

All you have shown is that this "bill" has no legal force and results in no negative ramifications if you ignore it.

And as I said before, our government runs deficits. therefore no, our services aren't fully paid for by our tax dollars unless you have trouble with math.

[moto22]

you are wrong. not only debts that are the result of borrowed money is reportable to credit agencies.

All you have shown is that this "bill" has no legal force and results in no negative ramifications if you ignore it.

And as I said before, our government runs deficits. therefore no, our services aren't fully paid for by our tax dollars unless you have trouble with math.

I'm aware not only borrowed money is reportable agencies , I'm jus saying not in this case ..


I'm not sure if there is any legal ramifications, but if there isn't, i'm sure in the near future if allowed to continue they will be.

No trouble with my math at all, take one sneaky tax, call it a Fire Department bill, over time more will be added, equals a mess for taxpayers and policy holders.Unless your in government, we have no control over when,how and for what the government choices to run deficits for and these FD bills are not going to stop that from happening.

[jverlaan]

Does anyone else find it offensive that if I need the fire dept at the scene of an accident I.e. To rescue me I have to pay them for this service? Aren't fire departments funded through taxes etc for this?
What next if I have a heart attack while golfing will the fire dept charge me for this service too?

well you arent at fault if you have a heart attack unless of course you over eat and dont exersize but if you are " at fault " in an accident. then why is it you dont feel you should be held accountable for your actions. that is why you have insurance for when you screw up , the insurer pays the bill for you. Your not paying the bill. you send it to insurance and they pay it.

I get a little frustrated hearing people complain about being held accountable for thier screw ups. who elses fault is it ??

BTW how the heck did you manage to break a fire hydrant LOL

[jverlaan]

Bankruptcy is besides the point here really ,the last thing i would imagine a person would need is a bill from the fire department after a house fire, if he or she has the ability to pay is irrelevant because the point is there should be no bill in the first place ,since those services are fully funded though public money as i mentioned before you would be paying twice for the same thing and there is no good reason for that .


Not rallying against anything that doesn't really exist, these bills do exist and are being handed out daily and shouldn't be.

Try and remember that the \Fire department works for the city and it is the city that is submitting you the bill to recoupe thier costs. Those costs would in turn be again paid by your insurance unless of course you dont have any but then it ends up that the person is responsible for thier choises in not getting insurance. Dont blame the guys who walk into your burning home trying to save as much of your stuff and your life as they can while risking thiers because the city wants compensation. Police write tickets to make money to cover thier costs. Ambulances charge between $50-$300 for a ride to the hospital depending on it is deemed life threatening or the person was jsut to lazy to drive them selves thier or simply go see thier doctor because of the flu. Fire departments provide a service and dont personally bill the public. The city bills for False alarms calls at buildings and for perishable products like absorbant materials at accidnets.

Oh and yes I am one of those darn firefighters. We do it cause we like to help people and would rather be risking our lives to save someone or thier property than dealing with someone who is too lazy to go see a doctor on thier own because of the flu or a sore throat.