WOW!! $300 for puking im an idoit!

[Rob MacLennan]

So if there is no sign up stating the general public can come in then they aren't allowed? I sure trespass a lot.

http://www.gtamotorcycle.com/vbforum...=1#post1729017

[Dave_Stumph]

AAhhhh the good ole days in my stomping grounds as a former student in waterloo this does not surprise me one bit, they look for this and will find a way to slap you with a ticket. Im going to agree with wingboy on this one, they will not take it easy on you. good luck!

I understand and with the possibility of having the fine increased regardless of my defense strategy......I'm re-considering my options.
If I plea not guily and ask for disclosure. Come court date time and I don't show up.... Can they increase the fine without my presence? I figure it will give me 6 months or more of time?

[Rob MacLennan]

I understand and with the possibility of having the fine increased regardless of my defense strategy......I'm re-considering my options.
If I plea not guily and ask for disclosure. Come court date time and I don't show up.... Can they increase the fine without my presence? I figure it will give me 6 months or more of time?

Yes. It then becomes the discretion of the JP, who might be quite annoyed at your failure to appear.

[OpenGambit]

I understand and with the possibility of having the fine increased regardless of my defense strategy......I'm re-considering my options.
If I plea not guily and ask for disclosure. Come court date time and I don't show up.... Can they increase the fine without my presence? I figure it will give me 6 months or more of time?

If Turbo's information is correct, it gets bumped to 450 automatically with a possibilty of more.
So it wouldn't be IF your fine is increased, but rather, how much.

[Dave_Stumph]

If Turbo's information is correct, it gets bumped to 450 automatically with a possibilty of more.
So it wouldn't be IF your fine is increased, but rather, how much.

A risk I'm not willing to take. Just trying to get some facts at this point. Doesnt look good for me

[DOHC1]

Usually for tickets that I know I'm guilty of (excluding traffic tickets), I just plead guilty, ***** about being a student with no money, act very remorseful, and the JP lowers the fine.

I found a loophole at one of the TTC subway stations that would let me on for free, but a few years later they caught on. $400 fine IIRC.. I was nice and remorseful to the cop and she gave me the minumum ($60). I took it to a JP, and did the whole remorse/broke/student thing and it he dropped it to $10. Also gave me 60 days to pay it.
If you know youre guilty and will probably be convicted, its worth a shot. This way, I dont think they will raise the fine on you.
P.S. Find real excuses as to why you are broke. Lol, I'm actually a student so I wasn't lying. I'm sure you can work the recession/an unexpected expense into your excuse. They record everything so it's not worth lying..he even made me state which University I go to.

[nobbie48]

In that case, I feel the fine should be increased.

Right On! Flood the system and let the real problems get off under some undue delay clause.

[gwelfmike]

This would be a real problem for you if I got drunk and I ****** on your front door every night.

Right On! Flood the system and let the real problems get off under some undue delay clause.

[mat2312]

Saw one guy fighting a trespass ticket in Whitby court. He figured, what the hell, the worst that will happen is that he'll be out the $63 or so that he would have to pay had he just paid the ticket. He actually said that to the court during his trespass trial at the same time that he admitted he had no defence strategy. Imagine his shock when the Crown asked for the court to impose a $500 fine on conviction. Seems he didn't realize that the amount on the ticket is the out of court settlement, and not the maximum fine.

In this particular Waterloo bylaw, the OP might want to look at Sect 10 where it outlines the applicable fines on conviction. Minimum $450, maximum $25,000 for a first offence. His trying to "clog the system" may come at an even greater price than the out of court settlement amount on the ticket.

Doesn't anyone see a problem with a system that adds additional risk of penalties to people for exercising their fundamental right to a trial?

I feel this is an attempt by the Crown/Justice system to extort pleas from the accused and is a slippery slope.

Regardless of the conduct of the accused in the courtroom, the person is on trial for the ACT they committed and should face the same penalty as others who've committed the same act under the same set of circumstances. Some may argue it's the person's character on trial, I disagree.

In the case of the trespass ticket, if the man had otherwise kept his mouth shut, would he have faced the same $500 fine? We have laws on the books to deal with improper conduct in the courtroom.

[geoff-9]

If Turbo's information is correct, it gets bumped to 450 automatically with a possibilty of more.
So it wouldn't be IF your fine is increased, but rather, how much.

incorrect info. its definately not an automatic increase in fine, . ive been to court a lot and this rarely happens. when you do see a fine being increased its when a speeding ticket has already been reduced and the defendant is attending court for the soul purpose of trying to get it further reduced.

certain JP's are starting to do this due to the number of people attending court tyring to get a fine reduction by pleading guilty and plea bargaining, which 95% of POA court is.

[Rob MacLennan]

Doesn't anyone see a problem with a system that adds additional risk of penalties to people for exercising their fundamental right to a trial?

I feel this is an attempt by the Crown/Justice system to extort pleas from the accused and is a slippery slope.

Regardless of the conduct of the accused in the courtroom, the person is on trial for the ACT they committed and should face the same penalty as others who've committed the same act under the same set of circumstances. Some may argue it's the person's character on trial, I disagree.

In the case of the trespass ticket, if the man had otherwise kept his mouth shut, would he have faced the same $500 fine? We have laws on the books to deal with improper conduct in the courtroom.

It's an out of court settlement which is effectively no different from a plea bargain, in a Criminal Code case. there is no guarantee that the fine will be higher, if you take it to court, but you also take the risk that it might be. This system helps to keep the court system from being flooded when the issue is clear-cut, while still providing the option of exercising your rights.

That isn't a problem, it's a solution.

[OpenGambit]

Think of it as an incentive to not waste time, rather than a penalty for going =D

Either way, Its not the best idea, but I can't think of a better solution to keep people from disputing things "just cause".

The alternative is for them to raise all the fines to factor in the extra costs of everyone disputing their fines.

[turbodish]

incorrect info. its definately not an automatic increase in fine, . ive been to court a lot and this rarely happens. when you do see a fine being increased its when a speeding ticket has already been reduced and the defendant is attending court for the soul purpose of trying to get it further reduced.

This is a municipal bylaw ticket, not a provincial traffic ticket. Lower fine amounts for out-of-court settlement of municipal bylaw offences is common.

Read the bylaw. The link appears near the top of the thread. The $450-plus fine due on first-offence conviction is clearly stated in the bylaw.

[ddusseld]

I understand what you are saying but I'm with the poster who thinks that the possibility of going to court and getting a higher fine is a form of intimidation. There should be no penalty for going to court to fight a charge. The "plea bargain" should not be done by the police officer. "Plea bargains" should be struck with the court.

It's an out of court settlement which is effectively no different from a plea bargain, in a Criminal Code case. there is no guarantee that the fine will be higher, if you take it to court, but you also take the risk that it might be. This system helps to keep the court system from being flooded when the issue is clear-cut, while still providing the option of exercising your rights.

That isn't a problem, it's a solution.

[geoff-9]

plea bargains are not done by officer.

[Rob MacLennan]

I understand what you are saying but I'm with the poster who thinks that the possibility of going to court and getting a higher fine is a form of intimidation. There should be no penalty for going to court to fight a charge. The "plea bargain" should not be done by the police officer. "Plea bargains" should be struck with the court.

They are done by the court. When you plead guilty it's registered by the court, then the set fine is applied.

[09SV650S]

I would fight it and blame it on the pita pit for food poisoning. Puking is involuntary. I can understand pissing, spitting or whatever but puking that's stretching it on the cops part.

When you live in a university poser filled city it's not stretching the limit. I pay huge property tax to live in Waterloo and I don't want to walk through some goofs puke because they were to stupid to stop drinking earlier. These people usually just come here for schooling then are gone. Some of us live here and want our city to be clean.

Sorry neighbour. You pay to play. I'd expect to pay if I was in your shoes.

[ddusseld]

Rob,

I know this. I was quoting your post where you said an out of court settlement was effectively a plea bargain.

They are done by the court. When you plead guilty it's registered by the court, then the set fine is applied.

[Rob MacLennan]

Rob,

I know this. I was quoting your post where you said an out of court settlement was effectively a plea bargain.

I know that too. I was directly replying to your statements. It is a plea bargain and it isn't performed by the police officer.

[Dave_Stumph]

When you live in a university poser filled city it's not stretching the limit. I pay huge property tax to live in Waterloo and I don't want to walk through some goofs puke because they were to stupid to stop drinking earlier. These people usually just come here for schooling then are gone. Some of us live here and want our city to be clean.

Sorry neighbour. You pay to play. I'd expect to pay if I was in your shoes.

Pay'd up. Didn't want to chance an increased fine. Either way there is a definite possibility the court would have increased it!
Ive lived here my whole life and are quite aware of the temp residence and the mess they can make in our town. (I did wash it down with 2 bottles of water thou I just wasn't aware of the $300 fine.
Lesson learned.