Got a ticket - Improper Right turn , HTA 141 ( 2)

**bigfoot** · 02-07-2012, 01:23 PM

Ok, need your advice , it was at the Eglinton exit off the 403 ramp , you can go and merge on the right and if you proceed you can make a left turn but there are no street signs indicating no right turn but the cop gave me a ticket anyway. What are my options here ? I am sure I can win this since I have photographs of the intersection and I think he was being an idiot. Any loopholes or any other tips to fight this ticket ? Thanks

**jeffjones** · 02-07-2012, 01:26 PM

Make sure in your picture you can clearly see that is the intersection that it happened at and the same one as indicated on your ticket and if there are no signs indicating what you were charged with that should be enough to clear you.

**Rob MacLennan** · 02-07-2012, 02:01 PM

Not sure that I'm following here. Exit from 403 in which direction, to Eglinton in which direction?

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that you were on 403 northbound then exited to Eglinton eastbound, via the ramp that is meant for people who are trying to go westbound. The signage isn't in the corner, it's leading up to the corner.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=eglint...322.42,,0,6.41

**bigfoot** · 02-07-2012, 05:50 PM

Ok basically I was heading 410 southbound , got off at the eglinton exit and there is a exit that goes westbound and if you go straight you get to a set of traffic lights that take you eastbound. Once you get in the eastbound lane you can also turn right to go westbound which is what I did and got t a ticket.

Here are is google location of the intersection

http://maps.google.ca/maps?saddr=egl...40.09,,0,-17.4

**Rob MacLennan** · 02-07-2012, 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by bigfoot

Ok basically I was heading 410 southbound , got off at the eglinton exit and there is a exit that goes westbound and if you go straight you get to a set of traffic lights that take you eastbound. Once you get in the eastbound lane you can also turn right to go westbound which is what I did and got t a ticket.

Same situation as what I posted, just from the other side. There's a sign as you approach the intersection, stating what lanes can make what turns.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=eglint...,,0,-4.64&z=19

Other than the usual hope the cop doesn't show up, blah blah blah, you might be able to plead down to some no points infraction like "impede flow of traffic."

**Brian P** · 02-07-2012, 06:04 PM

I am having no luck with Google Streetview right now. But if my memory is correct, if you want to go westbound, you're supposed to take that first ramp marked as such, and if you carry on straight, those are left-turn-only lanes.

It's the same as at any other intersection that has a right-turn lane with an island separating that right-turn lane from the main traffic lanes. If you want to turn right, you have to take that right-turn lane (between the island and the curb along the roadside). If you miss that right-turn lane, you are not allowed to subsequently turn right (around the other side of the island).

**Brian P** · 02-07-2012, 06:07 PM

Rob posted the correct picture while I was messing around trying to coax Google Maps to show exactly that view. If you want to make a right turn, you have to be in the right lane (the one from which the Google Streetview picture is taken). If you are in the center lane, that is a left-turn-only lane, as indicated by the pavement marking (which is not the legal requirement) and the sign on the left in the picture (which IS the legal requirement). You are NOT allowed to go around the other side of that concrete island to make a right turn.

**klr_guy** · 02-07-2012, 08:35 PM

Originally Posted by Rob MacLennan

Same situation as what I posted, just from the other side. There's a sign as you approach the intersection, stating what lanes can make what turns.

Not to mention the pavement markings which make it crystal clear - OP you better keep your fingers x'd on a no-show.

**OpenGambit** · 02-07-2012, 08:42 PM

Originally Posted by Brian P

Rob posted the correct picture while I was messing around trying to coax Google Maps to show exactly that view. If you want to make a right turn, you have to be in the right lane (the one from which the Google Streetview picture is taken). If you are in the center lane, that is a left-turn-only lane, as indicated by the pavement marking (which is not the legal requirement) and the sign on the left in the picture (which IS the legal requirement). You are NOT allowed to go around the other side of that concrete island to make a right turn.

I concur, the sign seems clear to me. It doesn't look like you have a substantive argument for this.

**Rob MacLennan** · 02-07-2012, 08:57 PM

Originally Posted by klr_guy

Not to mention the pavement markings which make it crystal clear - OP you better keep your fingers x'd on a no-show.

Like Brian said, the pavement markings aren't a regulatory device. They do sort of hammer it home though.

**Brian P** · 02-07-2012, 09:26 PM

I don't have much patience for right-of-way violators or queue-jumpers, either. To original poster ... "What were you thinking" ... That sign is as plain as day, and making a turn like that puts you in a place where other drivers are not expecting you to be, i.e. it's begging for you to get hit.

If you find yourself in the wrong lane to make a turn that you want to do ... at a certain point, you are past the point of no return. Make the turn as the lane requires you to do. If it sends you a direction that isn't what you wanted, so be it. Find a legal spot to turn around. In that area, there are all sorts of driveways just down the road that you can turn into, in order to do this.

**Smutty** · 02-07-2012, 11:27 PM

I got the same ticket 2 years ago. LOL. The line to turn right durning rush hour is at least 4 cycles long and backs up on to the highway. The cops just love to stand in the middle of the road and pull people over. Easy tickets. When I got stopped, I was 1 of 5 on just 1 light cycle.
i knew I was in the wrong and simply paid the ticket as it wasn't that big and fighting it wouldn't have really changed anything. It's already a "disobey posted sign" ticket, crown won't drop it to anything else. Maybe you can convince them to drop it to a 5 over?

pay it or fight it if you have the time. As others said, hope for a no-show but good luck, you know they'll schedule the other 200 people that got the same charge that day.

**Brian P** · 02-08-2012, 06:15 PM

If there's an enormous backlog to make a certain turn, there's nothing generally illegal about turning the other direction and then (legally) turning around, or going 1 block further and then going around the block, etc.

Once upon a time when I routinely had to go 401 Ebound to 404 Nbound and that ramp was often backed up forever in the morning, I'd just go to the next exit (Victoria Park), loop around, get back on 401 Wbound, and take 404 N from that direction, which was never backed up (at that time). Avoids being a queue-jumper ...