Are Unions done?

[SunnY S]

Take new deal or we’ll impose it, city tells workers

http://www.thestar.com/news/article/...-by-union?bn=1

Caterpillar closes Electro-Motive plant in London


http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/p...comotive-plant




Big companies and municipalities are playing hard ball.

What good are unions?

[Brian P]

In the grand scheme of things, and in this day and age ... not much.

As far as I can tell, Toronto wants at least a small amount of discretion to hire and fire. Businesses (and governments) NEED the ability to hire and fire. Good workers are kept, slackers have to go. It is unsustainable any other way. But unions fight for "jobs for life" tooth and nail. If you have job assurance for life, why show up for work any more than you have to, and why bother doing anything when you're there? Slackers like that need to GO.

Although the North American auto industry most certainly had other underlying problems, the UAW was responsible for a significant part of the mess that they've been through, and the mess is not over with. The pension obligations have been transferred from the auto manufacturers onto the UAW as part of the bankruptcy deal, and there is no way the UAW is going to be able to maintain the pension payments in the long term. They've been losing members, they've been unable to recruit workers at the import brands that have set up factories in the USA and workers at those plants have little interest in being unionized. For the most part, those plants have been setting up in "right to work" states.

[RetroGrouch]

Unions have had it their way far too long. Sure unions had their place in the past when people were getting arms cut off on the assembly line but these days they threaten strikes if they can't have inflated pension plans and bankable sick days. Eff them.

[AGAVE]

If there is one thing i am sure of, it's that Canadian voters are poor judges of character.
I don't really care about any union, but he just gave Caterpillar huge incentives to keep the plant here.

http://www.stthomastimesjournal.com/...aspx?e=3420995
http://opseuregion4.org/2012/02/harp...for-canadians/

"Three years ago, Harper donned protective goggles and posed with workers to chat up how his government had created a $1-billion tax break for industry broadly and a $5-million break to grease the wheels for sales by the locomotive-maker."

Not only that, the company made 5 billion in profit.
I'll say it again, Harper is a rat faced snake!!

[MadPoet]

Unions were needed when there were little concerns for workers rights but with the labour laws today, they are not needed. They became a mob of nothing but a shield for bad workers and a speedy way to bankrupt any successful manufacturing business. Keeping certain jobs in Canada is a very hard task when there are unions involved.

[EngineerJoe]

What's unfortunate is that even in this day in age, there are a lot of companies that treat their blue-collar work-force like ****. Even with the MOL, these companies still get away with things that would disgust most of us. Nobody likes a greedy union, but greedy upper management is no better.

[nobbie48]

Correct me if I have the facts wrong.

The London locomotive plant is moving to Indiana.
Indiana just changed to a right to work state.

Coincidence?

[nobbie48]

What's unfortunate is that even in this day in age, there are a lot of companies that treat their blue-collar work-force like ****. Even with the MOL, these companies still get away with things that would disgust most of us. Nobody likes a greedy union, but greedy upper management is no better.

You missed the greedy self serving government. More people would be content with just getting by if they weren't afraid of the govies pulling the rug out from under them. Screw them before they screw you. Freedom 55, oops 65, oops 67.....

[OpenGambit]

What's unfortunate is that even in this day in age, there are a lot of companies that treat their blue-collar work-force like ****. Even with the MOL, these companies still get away with things that would disgust most of us. Nobody likes a greedy union, but greedy upper management is no better.

I think you need to take that a couple steps further...
greedy upper management answers to greedy shareholders who are .....

the public, and the largest institutional investors in Canada are....
Pension funds!!!

now who is screwing who?

[Brian P]

Correct me if I have the facts wrong.

The London locomotive plant is moving to Indiana.
Indiana just changed to a right to work state.

Coincidence?

I am not sure if Indiana has changed to right-to-work yet, but I know there was discussion about it. This may also have something to do with VW opting for Tennessee (right to work) as opposed to Indiana, who were also interested in getting that plant.

[OpenGambit]

I am not sure if Indiana has changed to right-to-work yet, but I know there was discussion about it. This may also have something to do with VW opting for Tennessee (right to work) as opposed to Indiana, who were also interested in getting that plant.

I think it just got signed.

[Brian P]

I think you need to take that a couple steps further...
greedy upper management answers to greedy shareholders who are .....

the public, and the largest institutional investors in Canada are....
Pension funds!!!

now who is screwing who?

And to make things more interesting, UAW owns a lot of GM - that's what they got for eating the pension liability. The future pension liability exceeds by far any foreseeable amount that the UAW's share of GM could ever be worth. The distinct possibility exists that the UAW itself may eventually run out of money and itself go bankrupt. Those rich pensions that they negotiated in decades past could very well end up being worthless. And if they want those shares to be worth something, they have to maximize the company's profits (which, if you want the company to survive, is a good thing to be maximizing). Now, who was it that they were they negotiating in the interest of, again??

On the other hand, I know precisely what my company pension plan is worth: 0.

[murf]

I think there needs to be a balance......at the locomotive plant the company simply said we are cutting your salaries by 50%, take it or leave it. When I was at GE they offered workers that had been layed off $18 an hour instead of the $26 they had been making prior. I think this just adds to the widening gap between rich and poor........eventually when the middle class doesn't have much buying power the salaries of the profesionals, managers and executives will also come down unfortunately. Fords idea of paying good salaries so the middle class can buy what they make has merit.

[OpenGambit]

And to make things more interesting, UAW owns a lot of GM - that's what they got for eating the pension liability. The future pension liability exceeds by far any foreseeable amount that the UAW's share of GM could ever be worth. The distinct possibility exists that the UAW itself may eventually run out of money and itself go bankrupt. Those rich pensions that they negotiated in decades past could very well end up being worthless. And if they want those shares to be worth something, they have to maximize the company's profits (which, if you want the company to survive, is a good thing to be maximizing). Now, who was it that they were they negotiating in the interest of, again??

On the other hand, I know precisely what my company pension plan is worth: 0.

that is exactly the same as my company pension plan =D

[DownUnder]

When factory workers (unskilled labor) are getting $25-30/h (3x min wage) and going on strike for more, how does one expect the companies to stay competitive in a global economy. The Unions here just seem to blackmail companies/government. Every week it seems another union is on strike. Manufacturing wont be able to sustain all the demands. In todays economic turmoil $18/h down from $26/h is always better then $0/h. If $18/h is below the workers then im sure there is a line up of other people that would work for that much if not in Canada then in another country.

[OpenGambit]

Municipal workers striking makes me want to puke.

[fastar1]

I think you need to take that a couple steps further...
greedy upper management answers to greedy shareholders who are .....

the public, and the largest institutional investors in Canada are....
Pension funds!!!

now who is screwing who?

Wow, you just blew my mind!

[murf]

When factory workers (unskilled labor) are getting $25-30/h (3x min wage) and going on strike for more, how does one expect the companies to stay competitive in a global economy. The Unions here just seem to blackmail companies/government. Every week it seems another union is on strike. Manufacturing wont be able to sustain all the demands. In todays economic turmoil $18/h down from $26/h is always better then $0/h. If $18/h is below the workers then im sure there is a line up of other people that would work for that much if not in Canada then in another country.

Why stop at $18.......

[afong56]

When factory workers (unskilled labor) are getting $25-30/h (3x min wage) and going on strike for more, how does one expect the companies to stay competitive in a global economy. The Unions here just seem to blackmail companies/government. Every week it seems another union is on strike. Manufacturing wont be able to sustain all the demands. In todays economic turmoil $18/h down from $26/h is always better then $0/h. If $18/h is below the workers then im sure there is a line up of other people that would work for that much if not in Canada then in another country.

and at the same time, do we criticize corporations when they blackmail governments and make demands in order to keep plants or attract factories? are the wealthy immune from comment when in the midst of this 'economic turmoil' their real salaries and compensation are growing far beyond the average and the pace of negligible inflation? and how about the sectors that are reporting record profits during this turmoil? i'm not talking about slapping a crippling tax burden on businesses and the super wealthy, but c'mon, record profits?

why is it that we so glibly accept belt-tightening and bearing the costs of economic turmoil by the workers, but not by those who are far more capable of absorbing it?

[caboose483]

"Three years ago, Harper donned protective goggles and posed with workers to chat up how his government had created a $1-billion tax break for industry broadly and a $5-million break to grease the wheels for sales by the locomotive-maker."

Not only that, the company made 5 billion in profit.
I'll say it again, Harper is a rat faced snake!!

Sorry, you're leaving some information out. Although I can't blame you because the media did not release this info easily when reporting on the EMD lockout and Cat's profitability. All they ever reported was Cat's earnings/profit. Cat is an enormous company with many divisions and subsidiaries. Cat as a whole had a profit of $1.5 Billion in the most recent quarter. However, EMD's London facility lost $16 Million in 2010.

Why would the media only report Cat's earnings and leave out the fact that EMD is losing money? Why would they make it look as though EMD is profitable when they are not? Why would Cat continue to operate a facility that loses money? These are all questions that were never asked or answered in all the "news" articles i read on the lockout. The political bias of the news media is awful.. and most people buy it hook, line and sinker.

Unemployment here in London is over 9%. If there was no union to **** everything up and those jobs ($16.50-$22.00/hr for unskilled and $34/hr for skilled workers) were opened up to anyone interested there would have been thousands of people lined up to submit applications. Does anyone think that the CAW didn't know that EMD was losing money? Of course they knew. This is a case of the CAW bosses using their union members as pawns, and in this case they "won" (seriously... Ken Lewenza is quoted as calling this a win) by taking 100% of nothing instead of 60% of something.

Let's see if Ken Lewenza and Sid Ryan help their brothers put food on the table... I won't hold my breath.