front fender and turn signals

[Jetpack]

So, I've read on a few kijiji ads that turn signals aren't required by law on bikes in ontario...is this true? I've also read the same thing about front fenders, just some info I'd like to know just because I've damaged my signals and front fender and I'd rather just get rid of'm instead of replace'm, thanks!

[smergy]

Regardless of the legality, I would not suggest riding without signals on either the front or back. Making your intentions known to other motorists around you may make the difference between going home or going to the hospital. Signals are cheap, have a look at aftermarket signals on ebay.

[Splash]

So, I've read on a few kijiji ads that turn signals aren't required by law on bikes in ontario...is this true? I've also read the same thing about front fenders, just some info I'd like to know just because I've damaged my signals and front fender and I'd rather just get rid of'm instead of replace'm, thanks!

Front fender? If you have none you're just damaging your bike... plus it looks stupid.

Signal lights? I'm not sure if you LEGALLY need them but but it's a good idea... The HTA says you don't need them in one section and says you need them in another section.

Signalling devices required on trucks, buses, etc.
(29) Every motor vehicle or combination of motor vehicle and trailer having a width at any part in excess of 2.05 metres or having a length in excess of 6.1 metres shall be equipped with mechanical or electrical signalling devices that comply with subsections 142 (6) and (. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 62 (29).


Mode of signalling turn
(3) The signal required in subsections (1) and (2)shall be given either by means of the hand and arm in the manner herein specified or by a mechanical or electrical signal device as described in subsection (6). R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 142 (3).


Requirements for signalling device

(6) A mechanical or electrical signal device shall clearly indicate the intention to turn, shall be visible and understandable during day-time and night-time from the front and from the rear of the vehicle for a distance of 30 metres, and shall be self-illuminated when used at any time from one-half hour after sunset to one-half hour before sunrise. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 142 (6).

[Jetpack]

I guess I better just replace'm

[Rob MacLennan]

You are not required to have signals. If you do then they must be in good repair and meet visibility requirements. It's not a good idea to go without them, though, as they provide better visibility and you would be required to hand signal all moves, without them, to people who probably no longer have any idea what the hand signals mean.

As to fenders....

Mudguards
(3) Every motor vehicle and every trailer shall be equipped with mudguards or fenders or other device adequate to reduce effectively the wheel spray or splash of water from the roadway to the rear thereof, unless adequate protection is afforded by the body of the motor vehicle or trailer or by a trailer drawn by the motor vehicle. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 66 (3).

Translation: You require fenders.

[Stewart]

only 10 posts...so your new, right? i guess you haven't riden in the rain at 60mph with out a front fender? you can't see a darn thing.

[Splash]

You are not required to have signals. If you do then they must be in good repair and meet visibility requirements. It's not a good idea to go without them, though, as they provide better visibility and you would be required to hand signal all moves, without them, to people who probably no longer have any idea what the hand signals mean.

As to fenders....

Mudguards
(3) Every motor vehicle and every trailer shall be equipped with mudguards or fenders or other device adequate to reduce effectively the wheel spray or splash of water from the roadway to the rear thereof, unless adequate protection is afforded by the body of the motor vehicle or trailer or by a trailer drawn by the motor vehicle. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 66 (3).

Translation: You require fenders.

I'm pretty sure you can argue that the engine (the whole bike) will " reduce effectively the wheel spray or splash of water from the roadway to the rear " We are talking about the front fender here... not the rear!

For signal lights, 62(29) says you don't while 142(6) says you do....

All the cop will do is charge you under 142(6) and say "fight it in court"

[Rob MacLennan]

I'm pretty sure you can argue that the engine (the whole bike) will " reduce effectively the wheel spray or splash of water from the roadway to the rear " We are talking about the front fender here... not the rear!

For signal lights, 62(29) says you don't while 142(6) says you do....

All the cop will do is charge you under 142(6) and say "fight it in court"

Based on what I've seen from people messing around on bikes without front fenders, you're wrong.

And your arm is a "mechanical signalling device." Read further in 142, or look up at section (4).

[Jetpack]

Thanx for the info guys! Really appreciate it, I'm just gonna go ahead and replace'm to avoid the "controversy", been achin to put a chrome fender on anyways

[Splash]

Based on what I've seen from people messing around on bikes without front fenders, you're wrong.

And your arm is a "mechanical signalling device." Read further in 142, or look up at section (4).

I don't care if you think I'm wrong or not I'm saying from the letter of the law you don't need a fender in the front because the body of the bike prevents wheel spray to the rear. It's like 90% of cars out there. They don't have "mud flaps"... they have the body of the car preventing wheel spray.

As for your arm being a "mechanical signaling devise", unless your a T-800 then your arm is not mechanical.

"shall be given either by means of the hand and arm in the manner herein specified or by a mechanical or electrical signal device"

So I guess you don't need signal lights (technically) but your arm is not a mechanical device.

[Rob MacLennan]

I don't care if you think I'm wrong or not I'm saying from the letter of the law you don't need a fender in the front because the body of the bike prevents wheel spray to the rear. It's like 90% of cars out there. They don't have "mud flaps"... they have the body of the car preventing wheel spray.

As for your arm being a "mechanical signaling devise", unless your a T-800 then your arm is not mechanical.

"shall be given either by means of the hand and arm in the manner herein specified or by a mechanical or electrical signal device"

So I guess you don't need signal lights (technically) but your arm is not a mechanical device.

In the case of a car, the body is designed to provide protection from spray. This is not the case, where a motorcycle is concerned. Ever know anyone who has built a custom motorcycle or chopper? They won't certify, without a front fender.

You may well be right there, but the fact remains that an arm is a valid signalling device, as stated.

[OpenGambit]

I think the spray from the front wheels would easily go over the bike and rider... and behind, without a front fender..
I guess that makes the fender eliminator kits illegal? interesting. Thats something I never looked into.

[Griffin]

Any modifications that you do from stock you do at significant risk of attracting police attention and perhaps being ticketed, whether rightly or wrongly.

As far as fender eliminators, I think most would not be legal.

Most of the time people that have done mods that aren't legal benefit from the generally poor enforcement of these requirements. It's like tinted windows on cars, there are a great many that do not meet the restrictions of the HTA but the drivers have not been hassled over, That doesn't make them legal though.

There are some things I'll modify on my bike without worrying about police interference but some things I won't. An example is the license plate location. If you screw with that there's a pretty good chance that at some point you'll be having a chat with a cop about it. I'd rather avoid that myself.

[Rob MacLennan]

I think the spray from the front wheels would easily go over the bike and rider... and behind, without a front fender..
I guess that makes the fender eliminator kits illegal? interesting. Thats something I never looked into.

As you require a 'mudguard' on a motorcycle, 'eliminating' the 'fender' is indeed illegal. It's generally in the, "Do you want fries with that" range of laws for how it's applied though

[OpenGambit]

Agreed. I was looking some fender eliminators and lots of them have the plate wedged underneath the tail, too obviously not stock and definately visibility impaired.

Just asking for trouble.



There are/were definately a few things on my bike that would have gotten me in trouble if a cop actually wanted to. But I have been pretty lucky.

Not so lucky with cars hitting me but with cops yeah.

[Brian P]

The topic of fender eliminators has come up here a few times before. I've explained the common issues with them, too:

- License plate placement, if not at the very rear of the bike
- License plate lighting (frequently nonexistent, otherwise too dim or wrong colour - has to be white and only the light reflected off the plate to the rear is allowed, not direct view of the bulb itself)
- Turn signal separation - required by CMVSS 108 to be 220mm / 9" apart - most are non-conforming
- Turn signal brightness - most of them are totally inadequate
- Mud flap issue described above
- No red reflector to the rear and sides required by CMVSS 108

I prefer to leave this stuff all stock, or at least maintain as much of the original function as possible.

[OpenGambit]

Thats helpful thanks.

Now I know what to look for

[LannyNguyen]

Not only that, you can be charged with failure to signal.
Are you going to raise your hand while making a right hand turn on a red?

[Rob MacLennan]

Not only that, you can be charged with failure to signal.
Are you going to raise your hand while making a right hand turn on a red?

You don't have to maintain the signal throughout the turn. You merely have to clearly signal your intent.

[Jetpack]

I know this is stupid but the main reason I want to get rid of my signals is to turn it off I have to slide the button the opposite direction, often causing me to signal that way with no intention...guess I just better get used to it