City council voting on getting rid of free parking for motorcycles today

[Griffin]

Good points about taking a full spot if paying for the spot.

One thing I never understood with pay parking is how a motorcycle is supposed to display the receipt. There just is NO secure place to put it. Would not everyone simply not buy the tag and then, if ticketed, fight the ticket by saying it must have been stolen? I realize that is a pain in the butt however why would you bother buying a tag and have the high probability of it being stolen or blowing away as opposed to save your money and don't pay and still be at the same point as if you had paid but it was stolen? I mean you wouldn't stick a five dollar bill on your motorcycle seat, why are you expected to put a parking receipt there which is basically the same thing? (not well worded - brain not working well this morning).

[Rob MacLennan]

This ****ing city. I hate it.

I emailed my councilor on a variation of the letter posted earlier. I hope the The Toronto Motor Scooter club gets in on the act too. Scooters will be next... I bet you.

Total wankers these Politicians.

Well not to put too fine a point on it, but what most scooter riders do (parking on the sidewalk) is actually illegal. Parking in pay & display street spots, for both scooter and motorcycle riders, is currently legal.

[Rob MacLennan]

The ticket has a detachable portion, that acts as a receipt. You would have to show that receipt, in order to prove you actually paid. Just saying that someone must have stolen it would be insufficient. Of course that would mean wasting your time to go and fight it, also wasting the time of some civic employee.

[ABadjusterrider_5]

So, if I don't live in Toronto but want to object, can someone PM me who I should email or call?

[Griffin]

It was only maybe 5 minutes long, in all. I think that the best point made was by Downs who pointed out the amount of money wasted when motorcyclists have to prove that they actually paid for their stolen or lost tickets, and the parking tickets are dropped.

How does one prove they had paid? Other than the receipt that gets printed to be displayed on the vehicle I never get anything to prove I put coins in the machine. Am I missing something?

EDIT: I was answered in the other thread.

The ticket has a detachable portion, that acts as a receipt. You would have to show that receipt, in order to prove you actually paid. Just saying that someone must have stolen it would be insufficient. Of course that would mean wasting your time to go and fight it, also wasting the time of some civic employee.

Heh, oops. I don't park in TO often and never even noticed that there is a detachable part. I always just put the whole thing in my windshield. Learn something new everyday...

[Griffin]

The ticket has a detachable portion, that acts as a receipt. You would have to show that receipt, in order to prove you actually paid. Just saying that someone must have stolen it would be insufficient. Of course that would mean wasting your time to go and fight it, also wasting the time of some civic employee.

Heh, oops. I don't park in TO often and never even noticed that there is a detachable part. I always just put the whole thing in my windshield. Learn something new everyday...

[soto]

How does one prove they had paid? Other than the receipt that gets printed to be displayed on the vehicle I never get anything to prove I put coins in the machine. Am I missing something?

Half of the printed receipt is to be put on the dash, the other half is your proof of purchase. You're supposed to tear your half and keep it with you.

So... Anybody going to thank the mayor?

[AdRath]

Heh, oops. I don't park in TO often and never even noticed that there is a detachable part. I always just put the whole thing in my windshield. Learn something new everyday...

I've lived in Toronto for the last 12 years and I didn't even know that. It sure isn't a widely known thing as I've asked several rider and drivers at work and no one knew that.

Rob is it explained on the tag that you can do that? I'm tempted to go toss a dollar in the machine just to see.

[Flashmonkey]

Come on De Baermaeker...don't fail me now....

[Rob MacLennan]

So, if I don't live in Toronto but want to object, can someone PM me who I should email or call?

I would recommend that you email the two councillors, listed in the article, and Rob Ford himself.

[EatSleepRIDE]

A Facebook page has been started. Take a minute to like it and have your say. http://www.facebook.com/pages/Keep-M...49560171769691

[Rob MacLennan]

I've lived in Toronto for the last 12 years and I didn't even know that. It sure isn't a widely known thing as I've asked several rider and drivers at work and no one knew that.

Rob is it explained on the tag that you can do that? I'm tempted to go toss a dollar in the machine just to see.

Yup, it's perforated and says something like "retain as receipt" on the detachable section.

[CruisnGrrl]

even when parking my car i detach the receipt part, windows have been broken for less. Suck to get a broken window and a parking ticket for fail to display.

[rafiki911]

rford@toronto.ca

I would recommend that you email the two councillors, listed in the article, and Rob Ford himself.

[Face]

This issue isn't over yet. The recommendation before Council as the following:

"Councillor Mike Del Grande, seconded by Councillor Kristyn Wong-Tam recommends that:

1. City Council direct the General Manager, Transportation Services to report to the February, 2012 meeting of City Council, through the Public Works and Infrastructure Committee on options for the implementation and enforcement of parking charges and fees regarding motorcycles and motor scooters to harmonize them with parking for other motorized vehicles.

2. In preparing the report, the General Manager review the City's pay-and-display areas as well as the number of parking permits currently being exempted to determine the financial impact of the recommended changes to pay parking."

I'll keep an eye on the City web site to see if these recommendations pass, and post the results. If they do, we have 2 directions to pursue, and I suggest we do both:

1. Meet with Transportation Services staff to encourage them to report on all aspects of the issue. I'm happy to organize that. Sounds like EatsleepRIDE has a good handle on this and should join me. I would also like to hear from any lawyers out there who know about issues related to prosecution against motorcycles without pay & display tickets, burden of proof, costs associated with prosecution, etc. Please PM me if you can help. Hopefully we can get staff to look at all the costs, not just the potential lost revenue referred to in recommendation #2. It also helps that staff are aware that this is a publicly sensitive issue. With any luck we can get staff to recommend against changing the by-law to charge motorcycles.

2. Continue the political lobbying. Everyone should e-mail your Councillor, but we should focus on the members of the Public Works and Infrastructure Committee who will then have to make their recommendation to Council. They are Mark Grimes, Mike Layton, Denzil Minnan-Wong, John Parker, Gord Perks & David Shiner. You can see who your Councillor is, and e-mail them through the following link:

http://app.toronto.ca/im/council/councillors.jsp

We should also organize as many people as we can to attend the Public Works and Infrastructure Committee when they hear this matter in February. Committee meetings are open to public deputations, Council meetings aren't. This is the time to speak up in person.

It's not too late! There is a lot more we can do to fight this! Let's keep the pressure on! Remember, this is just a last minute motion from 2 Councillors looking to pinch a few pennys. If we can show that the costs out weigh the benefits, and that this could become a bigger political problem, then we have a reasonable chance of success.

[CruisnGrrl]

could you sue the councillors in support of charging motorcycles for time lost when fighting traffic tickets?

In a word: No.

To clarify, it would be small claims court, I'm thinking that it would mean wasting their time, not suing to win, suing to waste their time. yes I know there would be court fees to file and it would be an abuse of the courts, but if if they can waste my time I think i should be able to waste theirs, if enough people had them running around i think it would be hilarious.

[invictus43]

How do you like your messiah (Rob Ford) now!!!

[bennyskywalker]

For sure if this goes through, I'm taking an entire length of car space. There's no way I'm paying the same price as a car and only allowed to take up 1/5 the space - that counceller that had the stupid quote:

“They burn gas just like everybody else,” Del Grande said Tuesday. “You take a parking spot, you pay what you pay for cars.”

is an idiot.

So, if I effectively "rent" a parking space, I'm going to use it up. Setup some pylons spread my hard cases out, maybe even pitch a tent for the day. I'm going to Occupy my Parking Space. Like a little mini occupy Toronto.

[Rob MacLennan]

To clarify, it would be small claims court, I'm thinking that it would mean wasting their time, not suing to win, suing to waste their time. yes I know there would be court fees to file and it would be an abuse of the courts, but if if they can waste my time I think i should be able to waste theirs, if enough people had them running around i think it would be hilarious.

"Abuse of process" can get you a pretty nasty suit, in response, so I wouldn't recommend advertising your intentions

[Flashmonkey]

rford@toronto.ca

Ah crap I used his mayor email. I'm probably going to get his secretary.