City council voting on getting rid of free parking for motorcycles today

[Rob MacLennan]

While I don't generally put any stock in what The Sun has to say, other than Page 3 (occasionally), I suggest that Toronto residents contact your counsellors.

http://www.torontosun.com/2011/11/29...g-faces-to-ban

[silverbullet132]

Budget chief Mike Del Grande seems to think a bike takes up an entire parking spot. This only happens when the rider is inconsiderate, most of the time riders park in such a way that 3-4 bikes can share the same spot.

[kiterider]

Another harebrained, illogical scheme by the city.
I was gonna rant on a little more but, Bah....what's the point??

[EatSleepRIDE]

The point is unless you actually do try to do something, things will never change.

To quote edmond burke, "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

I'm not suggesting that this is evil per se, but what happens when the next thing they want to do is ban after market pipes? Or Bikes over 100hp? Or make everyone wear high-viz clothing? Will you still feel so apathetic? FYI, these are all things that have happened in france and been successfully prevented by a cohesive and politically active motorcycle community. I think we need the same.

Another harebrained, illogical scheme by the city.
I was gonna rant on a little more but, Bah....what's the point??

[Face]

Everyone

The Council website now shows that this issue has been dealt with, and the status is "amended". I have an e-mail in to the Clerk's office for clarification, and to get the approved recommendations, as amended. I'll post it as soon as I hear back.

I assume this means that they achieved the 2/3 votes to actually deal with the item today, and not let the motion go back to Committee where we could speak to it, as we had hoped. Hopefully the amendment gives us a little more time to work with staff and Council on this.

I'll let you know as soon as I do!

[Rob MacLennan]

Everyone

The Council website now shows that this issue has been dealt with, and the status is "amended". I have an e-mail in to the Clerk's office for clarification, and to get the approved recommendations, as amended. I'll post it as soon as I hear back.

I assume this means that they achieved the 2/3 votes to actually deal with the item today, and not let the motion go back to Committee where we could speak to it, as we had hoped. Hopefully the amendment gives us a little more time to work with staff and Council on this.

I'll let you know as soon as I do!

http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/viewAgen...m=2011.MM14.19

[Jayv]

Discussion on 1010am radio right now about this subject.

[kiterider]

Thanks for the tip Eng J. Just caught the last 3 mins

[Rob MacLennan]

It was only maybe 5 minutes long, in all. I think that the best point made was by Downs who pointed out the amount of money wasted when motorcyclists have to prove that they actually paid for their stolen or lost tickets, and the parking tickets are dropped.

[EatSleepRIDE]

Call or email your city councillor as apparently this will be voted on Wednesday, Nov 30th. Find your city councillor's name here http://app.toronto.ca/wards/jsp/wards.jsp

Do it now. Make your voice heard. This is a unique opportunity to have a net-positive impact on the motorcycle riding community in Toronto. Marina http://EatSleepRIDE.com/rider/marina

[EatSleepRIDE]

Feel free to reuse this open letter and send it to your Toronto city councillors.

Dear Mr Layton,


I understand after reading this article (http://www.torontosun.com/2011/11/29...g-faces-to-ban) that Toronto council intends to vote on the issue of rescinding free motorcycle parking in the city. As my representative on council, I wanted you to understand that this would not be in the best interests of the city.


Firstly, the arguments being advanced by Del Grande and Wong-Tam are, to say the least, biased: While motorcyclists do indeed burn gas, they burn significantly less of it, especially in urban centres. That they also can't name a dollar figure being lost is somewhat odd. How would they know the law was a success, for example?


Secondly, we take up significantly less road, both whilst driving and parked. We also cause far less damage to the surface due to lighter vehicles. Of course, if this is about fairness it would be reflected in our significantly lower road taxes but that is not the case.


Thirdly, forcing motorcyclists to pay for parking in the city centre would all but ban them, which is an odd choice as the province has recently prioritized motorcycle tourism as a growth area. As it stands, motorcycles are already discriminated against by being disallowed from most parking lots. On-street parking is often difficult to find as it is and with Toronto's ticket based system, we would have no way of demonstrating we had paid - we don't have a dashboard to leave a ticket in. Maybe the councillors think replacing all the meters would fix that? Sounds like a net spend to me.


There's also the timing aspect. I know it's often slow to change the law, but this would seem to be a simply by-law change and thus happen quickly which makes November a strange month to push it through. There's only one or two of us brave souls out there still riding. There's no lost revenue to collect for at least four-six months.


The company I am a founder of, EatSleepRIDE, is about advancing the causes of motorcyclists everywhere. We even recently wrote a manifesto about how motorcycles can make this city, indeed any city, better (http://eatsleepride.com/c/4418/We+th...o+Save+Toronto) from a traffic perspective. I would dearly love to find a way to get this discussed at the various government levels.


As such, I would humbly ask that you:


a) Vote against this bill tomorrow.


b) Ask the councillor(s) if they are looking for parity in the one area where are treated well, how do they intend to address the many areas where we are discriminated on (excessively high road taxes, unable to use HOV lanes, unable to use public and private parking lots /etc)?


c) Remind the council that there is no loss to them for at least 4-6 months and that all their constituents are best served by taking advantage of this time to study the facts


d) Allow me some time to meet with you, so that we can discuss how motorcycles can be better represented as positive modes of urban transport.


Regards,


Alex Crookes
President, EatSleepRIDE
http://EatSleepRIDE.com
Ward 19.

[Jayv]

It was only maybe 5 minutes long, in all. I think that the best point made was by Downs who pointed out the amount of money wasted when motorcyclists have to prove that they actually paid for their stolen or lost tickets, and the parking tickets are dropped.

Shame that the majority of the airtime was wasted by both of the hosts trying to prove their pro's and con's, sadly both sides were using misinformed information.

[awyala]

Toronto likes to bite other cities' initiatives.....try London then....create free parking bays (usually 2 car lengths, sometimes 1) Free for bikes only and usually 1 per block or 1 every 2 blocks. That way we don't park all willy nilly and rob the city of valuable infraction income. Or they shut the hell up when we stuff a bike between 2 cars and don't get in anyone's way.

There are a few spots around town where bikes routinely take up a a couple spots (with 5+ bikes). These would be great candidates for zoned bike parking. But other than downtown it is usually the odd bike here or there. Or the odd single bike which takes up a whole spot at a mall parking lot or something.

The case against free bike parking is weak, when 150cc scooters litter the sidewalks. The city's approach is haphazard and a sign of a confused "green" initiative. Toronto is by no means a leading city...they simply copy and paste.

Bike lanes? copy and paste
Bixie? copy and paste
High occupancy or diamond lanes? copy and paste
Reduction of classic streetcars? copy and paste
Dedicated embarking and disembarking platforms (that cripple traffic) (Roncesvalles)? copy and paste
You name it, this city bites it in a half assed poorly planned fashion. Even our infrastructure development over the years (especially the TTC) was half assed. Now we can't even afford to dig tunnels. This over groung light rail stuff is the sign of a poorly planned growth strategy from minute one. Toronto is buckling with only a population of (2.5 million) in the Metro area!!!

And the areas that take us up to 5 million are new enough to have been able to dig trenches to lay subway track, like Vaughan, Mississauga, Markham, etc. All in all this nitpicking over a minor segment like bikers is typical of Toronto city planning.

I only hope it gets tied up in 20 years of debate like the Gardener.

[awyala]

By the way, if free parking is repealed, that will crush the biking scene completely! I for one could not justify the expenditure any longer. With insurance rates on par with cars, and now daily commuting reaching the same costs as cars, why bother braving the weather to pay $20/day to park at work downtown?

The only advantage would be savings on gas, which would be justified by sheer comfort of the cage.

I'll just switch over to my heated / air conditioned car (which puffs away idling in Gardner traffic).

This is a collosally poorly thought out proposal!

It isn't even worth a vote.

If the city wants to cut congestion and polution...make parking free for bikes and legalize filtering and you will see an even more massive shift than that of recent times to 2 wheel commuting. When your average Joe can cut his commute by 70%, save another 60% on gas, and save 100% on parking....watch how Joe runs down to the dealer to grab a $6k Vespa and some textile all weather gear!

[Griffin]

It was only maybe 5 minutes long, in all. I think that the best point made was by Downs who pointed out the amount of money wasted when motorcyclists have to prove that they actually paid for their stolen or lost tickets, and the parking tickets are dropped.

How does one prove they had paid? Other than the receipt that gets printed to be displayed on the vehicle I never get anything to prove I put coins in the machine. Am I missing something?

EDIT: I was answered in the other thread.

The ticket has a detachable portion, that acts as a receipt. You would have to show that receipt, in order to prove you actually paid. Just saying that someone must have stolen it would be insufficient. Of course that would mean wasting your time to go and fight it, also wasting the time of some civic employee.

Heh, oops. I don't park in TO often and never even noticed that there is a detachable part. I always just put the whole thing in my windshield. Learn something new everyday...

[soto]

How does one prove they had paid? Other than the receipt that gets printed to be displayed on the vehicle I never get anything to prove I put coins in the machine. Am I missing something?

Half of the printed receipt is to be put on the dash, the other half is your proof of purchase. You're supposed to tear your half and keep it with you.

So... Anybody going to thank the mayor?

[topendz]

I would suggest those not wanting to loose free parking of motorcycles and scooters complain to their local council ASAP today as they are voting on it.


http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/viewAgen...m=2011.MM14.19

________

TORONTO - City council may move to slam the brakes on free parking in Toronto for motorcycles and scooters Wednesday.

Budget chief Mike Del Grande and Councillor Kristyn Wong-Tam are asking their council colleagues to have staff examine enforcing parking charges and fees on motorcycles and motor scooters.

“They burn gas just like everybody else,” Del Grande said Tuesday. “You take a parking spot, you pay what you pay for cars.”

Back in 2005, city council exempted motorcycles and scooters from buying pay-and-display tickets when they park in designated street parking areas. Del Grande points out in 2006, council voted to allow motorcycles and scooters to get long-term, on-street parking permits for free.

“I’ve noticed going through the budget that there are all kinds of freebies that still exist in the City of Toronto that doesn’t exist anywhere else,” Del Grande told reporters.

While he didn’t have a dollar amount on how much money Toronto is losing on the motorcycle parking “freebies”, Del Grande said no amount would be too small.

“Even if it is a dollar, it is a dollar that should go into the city coffers,” he said.

In his member’s motion which city council will vote on Wednesday, Del Grande calls the motorcycle parking freebies unfair to other vehicles.

“These systems are unfair to motorists who drive different classes of vehicles other than motorcycles and motor scooters as they currently pay full fees for using parking services of their vehicles,” Del Grande writes in his motion. “Exempting certain classes of vehicles such as motorcycles and motor scooters from being charged the above fees could also be considered a loss in potential revenue for the city.”

don.peat@sunmedia.ca

[Rob MacLennan]

This will be happening today so if you're in favour of free pay & display parking for bikes, in the on-street areas, you need to contact your councillor NOW. Tomorrow will be too late.

http://app.toronto.ca/im/council/councillors.jsp

[topendz]

Thanks Rob you beat me too it. I have already written to the major and several councilors!

This will be happening today so if you're in favour of free pay & display parking for bikes, in the on-street areas, you need to contact your councillor NOW. Tomorrow will be too late.

http://app.toronto.ca/im/council/councillors.jsp

[topendz]

Even if you don't care and don't ride into the city this benefits your fellow riders and supports everyone in the motorcycle community. Please write.