Track Schools...Any New Ones?

[Scuba Steve]

They can easily call anything on a racetrack a contest of speed and you will be SOL

[meme]

They can easily call anything on a racetrack a contest of speed and you will be SOL

I specifically asked about that - they said it DID NOT fall into that category.

[murf]

I specifically asked about that - they said it DID NOT fall into that category.

are their laptimes? Lots of them do timing. Insurance is becoming more and more picky all the time.

[atss2006]

Its funny you should mention that, because I was reading more and more of the race schools are forbidding any timing devices now. Wonder if thats the reason.

[Scuba Steve]

I would want it in writing from the insurance company, saying that I was covered at the specific event first. Anything anyone tells you over the phone means nothing when it comes down to it.

[KTM250SX]

Its funny you should mention that, because I was reading more and more of the race schools are forbidding any timing devices now. Wonder if thats the reason.

lap times are a big thing for K. Code. He is a strong believer that the best way to monitor your progress is to check the evolution of your lap times during the 2 day class. I did the 4 levels with CSS and also the race school. Yes it is a lot of $$$ but it is also very well worth it.
And BTW I have seen Keith riding the bike on the track at Las Vegas in 2009, and yes he was fast.
Now his son has taken over most of the day-to-day stuff; Keith spends more time doing private classes for celebrities...

[john bickle]

lap times are a big thing for K. Code. He is a strong believer that the best way to monitor your progress is to check the evolution of your lap times during the 2 day class. ...

That fact is totally dependant on rider experience. Consider Keith is more or less dealing with the up level track day rider. So their level of experience is good. Take a lower level green group rider and start focusing them on lap times and you now have a ticking time bomb. If you are consistant and smooth and can manage the reality that now you are accountable to the lap timer, fine. If you are new and have good and bad laps then a school that does not use lap times and focus's on your riding refinement is better. Lap times can push people to crash,, in fact if you are committed to the lap timer you should crash! Because you "want" to find your limit. Lap times are a valuable asset if you understand how to use them. Otherwise,,,,,,just ride and have fun. A lap timer can ruin your day!

[atss2006]

The way I had understood the use of lap times was that most schools use them but they are not released to you until the end of the day, for the reasons that John gives. You start to race the timer instead of improving your technique. I believe they say the use of private lap timers is prohibited. This again gets around the insurance issue, and may be the reason they prohibit them?
I'll be signing up for a track school at the show..still haven't decided yet..At least Ive narrowed it down between FAST and Racer5. Might even try both if the schedule is right. Woohoo spring..where are you...

[KTM250SX]

That fact is totally dependant on rider experience. Consider Keith is more or less dealing with the up level track day rider. So their level of experience is good. Take a lower level green group rider and start focusing them on lap times and you now have a ticking time bomb. If you are consistant and smooth and can manage the reality that now you are accountable to the lap timer, fine. If you are new and have good and bad laps then a school that does not use lap times and focus's on your riding refinement is better. Lap times can push people to crash,, in fact if you are committed to the lap timer you should crash! Because you "want" to find your limit. Lap times are a valuable asset if you understand how to use them. Otherwise,,,,,,just ride and have fun. A lap timer can ruin your day!

you are absolutely right John. Looking at the timer is useless (and dangerous) until a sufficient riding level is mastered.

[reciprocity]

This is the newest school available.

Jason DiSalvo speed academy

http://www.disalvospeedacademy.com/

[rafiki911]

This is the newest school available.

Jason DiSalvo speed academy

http://www.disalvospeedacademy.com/

Wow, that's a decent price for two days and one on one with video footage to see where you need improvement.

[GRAYZ]

I specifically asked about that - they said it DID NOT fall into that category.

Better to ask for that in writing... Maybe there is consideration for instructed educational courses... but I'm finding they are largely very uninformed and you'll get an answer based on your choice of words in describing what it is.

I'm currently looking for next track season and so far my experience is that the big Cdn ins. co's don't differentiate between track days and racing. Leave any grey area for interpretation and you could be a very unhappy camper. Most likely will need specialty insurance, which should be available considering there are companies in the US and UK that offer these products. One group in the UK has rates starting at 70GBP for a season. Now wouldn't that be an early Christmas present...

(You'd think that with the number of posts about this on this site alone, a broker would figure out this is an under-served area and could corner the market...)

[GreyGhost]

(You'd think that with the number of posts about this on this site alone, a broker would figure out this is an under-served area and could corner the market...)

Who wants a monopoly on a money losing business? If rates were similar to great Britain there is a $150 upside and ~$100,000 downside per rider. If only 1 out of 200 riders needed any medical care in each year it may work, but I suspect many would have smaller claims. With a high deductible (I am thinking $5000 or $10,000) to ensure that the insurance is only used for major injuries it may work. This is still a lot of liability for the rIder to take on but keeps them from being wiped out.

I am not sure how the insurance company would even build a rating table for this. There is a small number of potential members, the members would self-select (the riskiest are more likely to buy insurance than the safest) and within this small group there is still fragmentation (is Keith code more or less dangerous than wheelie school for instance).

[GRAYZ]

Who wants a monopoly on a money losing business? If rates were similar to great Britain there is a $150 upside and ~$100,000 downside per rider. If only 1 out of 200 riders needed any medical care in each year it may work, but I suspect many would have smaller claims. With a high deductible (I am thinking $5000 or $10,000) to ensure that the insurance is only used for major injuries it may work. This is still a lot of liability for the rIder to take on but keeps them from being wiped out.

I am not sure how the insurance company would even build a rating table for this. There is a small number of potential members, the members would self-select (the riskiest are more likely to buy insurance than the safest) and within this small group there is still fragmentation (is Keith code more or less dangerous than wheelie school for instance).

The information I found was only for lost income as a result of an inability to go back to work, not other costs like rehab, and it was also capped around $4K/month for a maximum of 4 years. Can't speak to your point on whether it is a money losing business other than having spoken to Recip's contact Ralf who said in the years he was selling these policies he only had one claim. The policy was discontinued when insurers were re-evaluating many of their products and it got washed out with some others.

My point was really that it seems the US and UK each have these products available to them, so I'm a bit surprised that we don't. If it was a money losing business, it wouldn't be available anywhere.

Lastly, I could definitely see a difference in risk between a track day and a track school - not in the potential for injury but in accountability. If an personal injury insurer can defer responsibility to another group (like the school's insurance company), their risk necessarily decreases.

[omnivore]

June of 2000, I attended Phase 1 at FAST. There was no mention of lap timers or that we werebeing timed, and it never even crossed my mind. I was shocked when, at the end of the day they handed out sheets with our laptimes throughout the day.

I am sure they don't tell the first time track school student about lap times, becasue they want the student concentrating on riding improvement, not trying to be a hero, as John said.

[2live&ride]

Personally, I plan on doing the Racer5 program next season, I'll be signing up at the Jan. show...
I like the idea of using a smaller displacement bike to learn on and develop y technique at a reasonable pace.

For $799 you get 4 track days and...

1. Bike Rental
2. Instruction
3. Track Fees
4. Race Entry Fees
5. Race License
6. Fuel Costs
7. Tire Wear
8. Damage insurance with a $500 deductible

Can't go wrong IMO.

[GRAYZ]

For anyone that has an ability to learn, FAST Phase 1 provides the necessary tools for riders even up to Advanced level at any trackday. They also have been around the longest, and have the most credible instructors of any school. And they only need one day to do it.