Curiousity question about low liability coverage

**nobbie48** · 10-05-2011, 07:42 AM

Ontario requires a minimum liability coverage on vehicles. I can't recall how much but $250K or $500K. In the USA some states have minimums that are 10% of that. Is a biker from one of these states legal in Canada?
Obviously the rider faces the same financial problems as he would if he had an at fault at home but what about the injured party facing massive costs?

**Baggsy** · 10-05-2011, 08:59 AM

Say it was $25,000 coverage.
The injured party would have to sue both the insurance company and the rider.
Anything above the $25,000 would have to come from the rider.

The rider's insurance company might decide it's not in their interest to fight over $25,000 and pay out.
In that case the rider needs to have his own lawyer to protect his and not his insurance company's interests.

Somebody smarter can let me know if I've been watching too much American TV.

**VifferFun** · 10-05-2011, 09:22 AM

If someone from the US was driving in Canada with a low TPL limit and caused damage, I think the injured party could claim against their Underinsured Motorist coverage (which is mandatory in Ontario). I'm not good with this stuff though -- an adjuster or broker would know better.

And just in case you were scheming -- no, you cannot plate and insure your bike down there and drive it full time up here.

**ABadjusterrider_5** · 10-05-2011, 10:38 AM

Ontario used to have a min of $300,000 then they changed the laws to have a min of $1,000,000. Part of your policy covers your injuries as a result of an accident (AB) part of it covers your stupidity (BI) and the other part is property damage. In the event of under coverage you would sue the other drivers auto policy for anything not covered under your policy. If that person doesn't have sufficent coverage you would sue them directly.

My work had a case a few years back where a driver ran a stop sign and struck a minivan with a husband wife and 2 kids. The driver died on impact. She only had $300,000 of coverage. My work ended up suing the estate of the dead woman because she only had $300,000 of coverage.

**VifferFun** · 10-05-2011, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by ABadjusterrider_5

Ontario used to have a min of $300,000 then they changed the laws to have a min of $1,000,000.

This is not true -- Ontario's minimum liability coverage is $200,000. Most brokers/agents will quote you $1M by default, since it costs just a fraction more than the $200K coverage and you would be stupid to insure for less anyway. I personally have a $2M limit and wouldn't consider anything less.

Originally Posted by ABadjusterrider_5

Part of your policy covers your injuries as a result of an accident (AB) part of it covers your stupidity (BI) and the other part is property damage. In the event of under coverage you would sue the other drivers auto policy for anything not covered under your policy. If that person doesn't have sufficent coverage you would sue them directly.

Kind of yes, kind of no. Ontario has a threshold no-fault system. Essentially, your AB coverage pays for any injuries to you or your passengers, whether you're at fault or not, up to a specific threshold. This is what is known as "no-fault" insurance in Ontario. Once the threshold is exceeded, then your insurer will sue the at-fault party's insurer to recoup, and the at-fault party's TPL coverage will pay out. This is all transparent to you as the insured. Note: Even though we have "no-fault" insurance, fault is still determined in the event of a collision in order to increase the premiums of the at-fault party. Yes, it's a little confusing

**Platinum Cycle** · 10-05-2011, 08:48 PM

I can't say 100% but my suspicion is that the insurers in all states in the U.S. would provide coverage up to the minimum limits in the jurisdiction where the accident happened.
So, for example Skeeter from Louisianna was up here on his HOG and hit you, and he only had $20 000 worth of liability coverage his policy from Louisianna would bump him up to our minimum liability limits of $200 000. Incidentally that's how our auto policy works in the U.S.

What do you do if your injuries are over $200 000. Well you have your accident benefits coverage but you also have the OPCF 44 endorsement which will also kick in to provide you some coverage.

Boy, doesn't your Ontario Auto policy seem like a good deal.

It's no wonder policies in other jurisdictions are so cheap, they rarely provide the kind of coverage our policy does.

Section 5 Uninsured Motorist coverage would only kick in if Skeeter had no coverage whatsoever.

**ABadjusterrider_5** · 10-07-2011, 09:38 AM

Originally Posted by VifferFun

This is not true -- Ontario's minimum liability coverage is $200,000. Most brokers/agents will quote you $1M by default, since it costs just a fraction more than the $200K coverage and you would be stupid to insure for less anyway. I personally have a $2M limit and wouldn't consider anything less.

Kind of yes, kind of no. Ontario has a threshold no-fault system. Essentially, your AB coverage pays for any injuries to you or your passengers, whether you're at fault or not, up to a specific threshold. This is what is known as "no-fault" insurance in Ontario. Once the threshold is exceeded, then your insurer will sue the at-fault party's insurer to recoup, and the at-fault party's TPL coverage will pay out. This is all transparent to you as the insured. Note: Even though we have "no-fault" insurance, fault is still determined in the event of a collision in order to increase the premiums of the at-fault party. Yes, it's a little confusing

I was trying to keep it simple.... I've been an AB claims adjuster for 5 years now. Threshold for claims is $30,000.

**VifferFun** · 10-07-2011, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by ABadjusterrider_5

I was trying to keep it simple.... I've been an AB claims adjuster for 5 years now. Threshold for claims is $30,000.

Oh, I didn't realize your alias before

**ABadjusterrider_5** · 10-07-2011, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by VifferFun

Oh, I didn't realize your alias before

It's ok. If you quickly scan my alias it could read A-Bad-justerrider. LOL. I know all about the messes of priority for claims, catastrophic vs non-cat, fault determination rules, AB Claims, the SABS, conflicts with other legislation like the CC. Fun fun fun

**VifferFun** · 10-07-2011, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by ABadjusterrider_5

It's ok. If you quickly scan my alias it could read A-Bad-justerrider. LOL. I know all about the messes of priority for claims, catastrophic vs non-cat, fault determination rules, AB Claims, the SABS, conflicts with other legislation like the CC. Fun fun fun

Now that you mention it, I think I did read "A bad" and that was as far as I got

It's good to have another claims adjuster here to help answer claims-related questions, because I'm not so good with that stuff.

**cutsheal5** · 10-07-2011, 06:23 PM

the real question is how to you get a quote for $200,000 liability in canada because i have been looking for an insurance company that does this and they all seem to want 1,000,000 minimum. Witch sucks because i want just bare minimum cheapest insurance i can find and if its law in canada they should quote you at $200,000 if you request it but they wont

**VifferFun** · 10-09-2011, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by cutsheal5

the real question is how to you get a quote for $200,000 liability in canada because i have been looking for an insurance company that does this and they all seem to want 1,000,000 minimum. Witch sucks because i want just bare minimum cheapest insurance i can find and if its law in canada they should quote you at $200,000 if you request it but they wont

All companies will have a rate associated with the $200K limit. Few brokers will want to quote you for fear of being sued for Errors and Omissions in the event that you are involved in a crash (because MANY injury claims go well over $200K these days). If you ask, they should give you a quote though. At best, it might be about 10% cheaper than the $1M premium, and definitely not worth the risk IMO. If anything, you should be INCREASING the limit over $1M, not decreasing it.