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So I am currently trying to wire up my garage for a 200amp service. The Engineer at Milton Hydro told me I am good to go in regards to the wires feeding my house being good for the 200amp already. All I need to do is put in the 200amp panel that I have here and replace the ghetto 1950s screw fuse type panels that's in there.
Now I was going to tackle this job my self as all you do is call Hydro they disconnect your power, then you do your work, call ESA and then get reconnected. The only thing is ESA charges $162 to show up and inspect and I think it's cheaper for Contractors. So if the contractor pays a smaller fee for the inspector and pay him for his labour to install the panel I am thinking it might not be too too prohibitive to go with the contractor seeing as I have 90% of the materials required for the job.
Have any of you guys done a similar swap at home? Were there any oh-**** moments that if you could go back and do again you would take care of first?
Also if there are any electricians on here feel free to PM you can come by and give me a quote on the work.
Ohh and some pics
I want to go from this panel/panels
To this
Last edited by Freestyle72; 10-03-2011 at 12:49 PM.
$350K house & that's the elec system? I'm surprised TD insured ya...lol
I had mine recently - 60A to 100A. Power to the garage etc.
Just let the contractor take care of the permit, disconnect, inspection, and re-connect, and you won't have anything to worry about. In the end, you will save head aches, time, and money.
I am going from 100-200A so the wiring was beefy to start with at least. The only thing I worry about is getting an electrician who will blow smoke up my *** as I am too ignorant on the subject to tell wtf is going on.
But ya depending on the price I will let a contractor do it. I don't have unlimited funds like some old men I know who buy brand new bikes every season.
I did an electrical upgrade to my 98 year old house: upgraded to 200 amp in, got ride of the old fuse panel and 4 pony panels, and ran 100 amps into my detached garage. I picked up the latest electrical code book, did everything according to it, and even had a friend who is a licensed electrician check my ideas and my work. The problem is that the electrical code is very subject to the interpretion of the individual inspector, and it can change daily. On the first inspection, which is done with everything installed but not hooked up, he failed me on a few things which were done according to the book, and I had to redo them. On the second inspection , which is done with the hydro service off and everthing hooked up, I had a different inspector, as the original one was on holidays, and he failed me on a couple of things that the first inspector had passed, and I had to redo them. I'm actually rather nervous about having the final inspection done now.
The moral of this story? Save yourself a lot of grief and cash and have a licensed electrician do the work. It will be much faster, and maybe even cheaper in the long run. Another friend of mine told me that the electricians know the inspectors and their personal interpretations.
If you do decide to do the work for yourself, overkill everything is my best advice. They seem to like that.
This is the classic service upgrade. It's common.Originally Posted by Freestyle72
Your existing main fuses are 100 Amp. Your meter may be 200 Amp, but it's doubtful that the wire size is big enough for 200 Amp. The wire you can see in your main switch are certainly not rated for 200 Amp.
You'll run into a few other "gotchas";
The new panels are much larger than the old systems, more space to work inside them. You'll need a new backboard, depending on the inspector you may or may not need a fire break as you are mounting to a masonry wall. If in doubt, use a 1/2 sheet of drywall behind the panel.
The existing branch circuit wiring is going to be too short. Mount a 'D' box above the panel, connect extension in there. You'll need suitable wire to make the extensions. Use a couple of largish pipes (2") to connect the D box to the panel. Make sure that ALL the conductors from each branch circuit pass through the same pipe.
The existing ground wire may be too light and may not conform to the current code.
It appears your service is fed from the bottom and that all the branch circuits feed out the top. Take care how you mount your new panel, you may not use one section as a raceway for the other section. Which means; your incoming service cables may not pass through the load breaker section and the branch circuit wiring may not pass through main breaker section. If this is the case, mount the panel "up side down" with the main breaker section on the bottom.
If in doubt, send me a note, I may know a couple of guys who might take this on as a side job.
Most electrical inspectors frown on mixing two brand name circuit breakers in one panel. I think you've got a few Siemens breakers mixed in with the Cutler Hammer.
Can you post a pic of your hydro meter outside. There may or may not be some other issues that need to be addressed.
Mount the new panel upsidedown. Looks like most if not all those circuit feeds will easily reach thus eliminating any junctions.
Last edited by f1mauro; 10-03-2011 at 05:17 PM.
A good friend will bail you out of jail, but a 'true' friend will be sitting next to you saying...'damn that was fun'
Ummm....is that a 3phase panel you got there?
A good friend will bail you out of jail, but a 'true' friend will be sitting next to you saying...'damn that was fun'
Me and F1Mauro do pro electrical work.
Free estimates.
Gary didn't pay me enough donuts, so I didnt do his work. But we've done work for other GTAM people.
p.s. This looks like a tricky job if you are unsure of what you are doing or dealing with. eg. You do realize that you have to change the main panel feed wires, and possibly the meter base to handle 200amps right?
The new panel in the picure is 3 phase. The 200 Amp breaker pictured is also 3 pole.
This equipment can't be used for a single phase residential installation.
If you want to get technical, it IS possible.
You can take one of the phases and loop it through 2 of the 3 lugs leaving the third lug for the other phase. Most commercial panels or 3 phase panels are able to handle double lugs, or are rated to have 2 wires pressed under one lug.
If you look at the breaker, its able to hold up to size 300MCM.
Not my preferred method, but has and can be done.
.
Last edited by SunnY S; 10-03-2011 at 06:29 PM.
As much as you may save by a DYI job, there is a cost of time and inconvenience by having the inspector ask for do overs. Municipal Inspectors will grill a home owner to a much higher degree of "done" than a real electrician. Its just how it is.
Hahaha... and you claim to "do pro electrical work"! You are obviously not licensed if you are doing hack work like that and never get your work inspected by ESA. Try buying a code book and look up why that is against code.
My boss would charge somewhere around $2500 for that job including labour, all materials, and inspection.
That 3 phase panel, get rid of it. You plan on running a fused disconnect with that thing?
That job is not so straight forward. Worth the learning experience only if your an apprentice electrician.
You only get one phase in residential wiring. ALWAYS.
Sorry.
... and that's a single phase box... and a single phase cut off.
I'm glad I'm not hiring electrician's off a motorcycle BBS.
Last edited by bitzz; 10-03-2011 at 08:19 PM.
Like I said... "technically" its possible. Seen it done.
I could see how this would be misleading in this thread however.
I will stick to my closing words.....
hmmm,, I have seen it done in commercial single phase installations as recently as this year... 1200amp 3ph 4w switch gear, connected to a single phase service. that one was under the guise that eventually 3phase power would be avail on the street, and they would upgrade.
and,, there are 3 phase houses being built now as well.. but, you have to pay for it .from the pole line, to the trans, to the feeders.. and naturally the interior wiring too. So when SunnY S said "If you want to get technical, it IS possible. " ... it is correct! It does depend on the utility that has jurisdiction,, and who, and how you ask ...
Guys WTF call me illiterate but it says right on the panel "Use any 2 poles for single phase applications".
I got a quote from an electrician for $2000-3000 to do the work I am pretty sure I am going to have to sell a kidney to get this job done. If anyone else wants to come out and take a look the guy depressed me by telling me that many lines were over fused as a result of shoddy home electrical work...Looks like one of you guys is gonna have to cut me a deal, or I am going to have to learn a lot more about electrical work than I would like.
OH and you are 100% right about the different fuse types, that was my mistake I just threw a bunch of the ones I had laying around into the panel so they wouldn't be sitting loose.
I wasn't sure if I needed to upgrade the wires from the weather head to the main feed since they seemed pretty ****in big already. Either way that's not a large expense it's like 8 -10ft of wire.
I'll get some pictures of the meter tomorrow but it looks pretty nice.
Last edited by Freestyle72; 10-03-2011 at 08:37 PM.
Why? If one rides a motorcycle, he knows of nothing else?
I think it had to do with people claiming it's a 3 phase only panel when the panel says on it use 2 poles for single phase use. Now I am not a pro at electrical stuff but it seems fairly straight forward that it's ok for single phase use. I could be wrong.
120/240v resi stuff is single phase, but you will hear a lot of people call the the legs phases though it is actually incorrect.
I didnt even realize there were pics of the new equipment, only going by previous posters. But i would never use 3 phase for single.
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