Lane splitting/passing

[Splash]

That's spelled out in the HTA. Splitting and filtering get into a whole different can o' worms.

http://www.canlii.org/en/on/oncj/doc/2009/2009oncj620/2009oncj620.html

Wow

"With a distance of only 2 feet from the lead motorcycle he would have had no time to take appropriate evasive action had the lead motorcyclist swerved to his right. A collision would have been likely."

So how do the cops defend riding in "COP" formation then?

[Rob MacLennan]

Front and side? They are not higher. What makes you think they would be higher?

Here are the numbers, but these are totals (actually, click on the link below, it may be better if you take a look yourself, because it is the first time I try to get data out of this system):

CALIFORNIA
Front 138
Left Side 15
Right Side 13
Rear 9

TEXAS 2009
Front 122
Left Side 14
Right Side 4
Rear 21

FLORIDA 2009
Front 129
Left Side 14
Right Side 14
Rear 16


http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Vehicl...torcycles.aspx


Population (can't find total number of registered motorcycles by state, so these are totals too, but it can be safely assumed that there are more motorcycles in California than in Texas or Florida)
CALIFORNIA: 37,253,956
TEXAS: 25,145,561
FLORIDA: 18,801,310

When we're talking about statistics, I make no assumptions. It would be best to see numbers with respect to 1,000 or 100,000 licensed vehicles/operators, as straight numbers are meaningless. Take a look at how the various recently passed laws in Ontario were justified, if you have any doubts about that.

Wow

"With a distance of only 2 feet from the lead motorcycle he would have had no time to take appropriate evasive action had the lead motorcyclist swerved to his right. A collision would have been likely."

So how do the cops defend riding in "COP" formation then?

Because both officers would be capable of braking, without interfering with each other, perhaps? Evasion isn't a consideration when "in formation", of course.

[Torren]

Claiming to filter at lights for safety reasons is even less credible then the loud pipes save lives argument. Stay in gear, watch your mirrors and always leave yourself an out.

Filtering/splitting comes down to one of the key reasons for most of the crap driving. Selfishness. Meeeeeeeee Fiiiiiiiiiiiirrrrrrrrrrrrrssssssssssst!!

[FitzR6]

Whats the big deal about waiting behind other traffic like everyone else on the road?

1) I'm on a bike.

Point 1 is enough for me but I will also add a second point for argument's sake...

2) I will argue that it is more dangerous being in the middle of the pack rather than ahead.

[Torren]

1) I'm on a bike.

Point 1 is enough for me but I will also add a second point for argument's sake...

2) I will argue that it is more dangerous being in the middle of the pack rather than ahead.

So if your on your bike first in line at a stop light and im in my van, would it be ok for me to pull up beside you? I mean i can fit so why not?

I would argue that being in the middle could be safer then being at either end, be it the front or rear. I agree that being at the front of the pack will help to shelter you from someone plowing into back of you, however if there's an accident in the intersection your totally exposed. You will also be the first one to find out if someone wanted to push that red light..

Safest thing to do is leave yourself options. The more options you have the better off you are.

[Crnac]

So if your on your bike first in line at a stop light and im in my van, would it be ok for me to pull up beside you? I mean i can fit so why not?

Good point..

This does happen to me every so often. I always knock off the drivers side mirror with my fist.

Cheers.

[jonpurdy]

Claiming to filter at lights for safety reasons is even less credible then the loud pipes save lives argument. Stay in gear, watch your mirrors and always leave yourself an out.

Filtering/splitting comes down to one of the key reasons for most of the crap driving. Selfishness. Meeeeeeeee Fiiiiiiiiiiiirrrrrrrrrrrrrssssssssssst!!

Why shouldn't a motorcycle be first? Motorcycles get up to speed much faster cars. And it's safer for them to be at the front than in the middle or behind a pack.

[Rob MacLennan]

Why shouldn't a motorcycle be first? Motorcycles get up to speed much faster cars. And it's safer for them to be at the front than in the middle or behind a pack.

.... until someone turns left, across your path, which is the most common multi-vehicle collision type, involving motorcycles.

Wait your turn.

[mindactivated]

I've asked this before and got a positive answer, but how about this scenario:

dead-still traffic, cars parked in the right lane, and taking the left tire track of the right lane at a slow pace all the way up Kingston from Queen to Main St...

link

I did this once during the jazz festival, traffic was absolutely brutal but I was able to get through no problem. Passed a cop (even stopped beside with no issue), and then at one point some lady tried to block my path (I had a 2up as well!). I was going slow enough that any door prizes, hidden pedestrians, or jerks trying to stop me from going on my way wouldn't cause any accidents.

Thoughts on this one?

[Rob MacLennan]

A search of this forum would show that it has been discussed before. If it's a larger than normal lane, with cars parked to the right, then it's legal.

[OpenGambit]

Why shouldn't a motorcycle be first? Motorcycles get up to speed much faster cars. And it's safer for them to be at the front than in the middle or behind a pack.

its part of the deal. You get a bubble, the whole lane to travel in, no one is supposed to lane split with you when you are running along because you are considered the same as a full size vehicle under the HTA.

But you follow all the rules that go with that, IE, you can't lane split with others/ filter/ so on.

[Frio]

Claiming to filter at lights for safety reasons is even less credible then the loud pipes save lives argument. Stay in gear, watch your mirrors and always leave yourself an out.

Filtering/splitting comes down to one of the key reasons for most of the crap driving. Selfishness. Meeeeeeeee Fiiiiiiiiiiiirrrrrrrrrrrrrssssssssssst!!

I am sorry Sir, but it is not necessarily selfishness. When I drive my car I have no such urge to get in front whatsoever, I follow all the other traffic, as my vehicle occupies a good portion of the lane I am travelling onto.

With the motorcycle on the other hand there are several valid reasons to filter to the front at a traffic light:
1) My vehicle uses much less space than a car/van; having motorcycles dispersed in traffic with each taking as much space as a car makes city traffic congestions much worse than they normally are.
2) My vehicle accelerates and brakes much, much more quickly than cars/vans, which allows me to move out of the way when traffic lights become green, therefore once again making traffic movement more responsive, albeit by a small amount.
3) Moving at the front allows motorcycles to be static in traffic for an overall lower amount of time, thus lowering the chances of overheating, which is much more of a problem in motorcycles than cars, as some of them are air-cooled, others are liquid-cooled, but with an overall heat exhanging mass smaller than cars in proportion to the engine displacement. Motorcycles are not designed to be stuck in traffic for prolonged time, certainly not as much as cars anyway.

You see, being a sports-bike rider doesn't necessarily mean being a selfish, ego-centric speed maniac.

Regards,

Frio

[Torren]

With the motorcycle on the other hand there are several valid reasons to filter to the front at a traffic light:
1) My vehicle uses much less space than a car/van; having motorcycles dispersed in traffic with each taking as much space as a car makes city traffic congestions much worse than they normally are.
2) My vehicle accelerates and brakes much, much more quickly than cars/vans, which allows me to move out of the way when traffic lights become green, therefore once again making traffic movement more responsive, albeit by a small amount.

If your trying to make a point about not being selfish, you should probably start with words other then "my".

3) Moving at the front allows motorcycles to be static in traffic for an overall lower amount of time, thus lowering the chances of overheating, which is much more of a problem in motorcycles than cars, as some of them are air-cooled, others are liquid-cooled, but with an overall heat exhanging mass smaller than cars in proportion to the engine displacement. Motorcycles are not designed to be stuck in traffic for prolonged time, certainly not as much as cars anyway.

Try this excuse in court and see how far it gets you. We do not get to pick and choose which laws we follow based on our vehicle selections. Instead we have to pick vehicles that are capable of operating in the conditions in which we live or adjust our uses to fit the limitations of it's design.

You see, being a sports-bike rider doesn't necessarily mean being a selfish, ego-centric speed maniac.

Arseholes come in all shapes and sized. They ride anything on 2 wheels, drive most anything on 4 wheels and worst of all, they are multiplying.

[imnothng]

Hey Torren, just curious. Are you against filtering/splitting period, or are you just against it being done here because it's against the law?

[Frio]

If your trying to make a point about not being selfish, you should probably start with words other then "my".




Try this excuse in court and see how far it gets you. We do not get to pick and choose which laws we follow based on our vehicle selections. Instead we have to pick vehicles that are capable of operating in the conditions in which we live or adjust our uses to fit the limitations of it's design.



Arseholes come in all shapes and sized. They ride anything on 2 wheels, drive most anything on 4 wheels and worst of all, they are multiplying.

Ah a pristine example of the great art of nitpicking, interesting how your response to my first two points focuses on the use of "my" rather than a generic sentence subject.

Your comment about not picking laws as we please is entirely questionable.
My argument is entirely based on a complaint for what I believe to be an at least very questionable law, I am obviously not promoting going against the law.

Both the argument and the complaint are most certainly not meant to be upheld in a court, in fact I strictly follow the law regardless of the vehicle I choose to drive, and it might be difficult for you to comprehend that I strictly follow the law even when I am not driving/riding, given the arrogance you show in only remarking selfishness in other commenters' posts when they disagree with yours.

It's just funny/sad to see this kind of bigotry against others' opinions without apparent motivation and without valid supporting arguments other than asserting arseholes are multiplying.

Have a great day!

[Torren]

Hey Torren, just curious. Are you against filtering/splitting period, or are you just against it being done here because it's against the law?

Im against a person putting their priorities over another persons or another persons safety.

Filtering at a light is the same as budding in line at the grocery store because you only have an item or two. Except that at the store people generally ask if they can cut in first. I don't like rude behavior.

Splitting I see as a needless risk. I don't care if someone does something that puts them self at risk, but I take issue when someone puts other people at risk. If you have to wait a couple extra mins behind a slowpoke in the left lane to pass someone so you can get around so be it. It's not going effect your overall travel time by much if any. But if you decide to split and something goes wrong or you startle someone or cause them to take evasive action (required or not) and an accident ensues.. A low risk, but still a needless one.

As far as the law is concerned, I do not agree with lots of them however I still follow them. The laws are our rules on the road. Traffic flows best when everybody is driving predictably. Water will flow down a channel quite smoothly, it will round gradual bends and remain calm. As soon as you add something that deviates the flow (rock for ex) it creates eddys and the flow around the object becomes turbulent. Look at a 4 way stop intersection. Everybody stops and follows the rules and traffic gets through at a more or less constant pace. Get one person who tags behind someone else and that disrupts the pattern and slows everyone else down.

As a motorcycle enthusiast splitting/filtering bothers me because is pisses car drivers off. It makes us as a group look bad. So when we want things like to be included in the HOV lanes on the highway, it makes it that much harder to get public support.

[Torren]

Ah a pristine example of the great art of nitpicking, interesting how your response to my first two points focuses on the use of "my" rather than a generic sentence subject.

Umm.. because your first 2 points about filtering not being a selfish act only went to prove that it is an entirely selfish act. There was no benefit to anyone other then yourself in those points. Trying to say that you can get out of peoples way quicker is pointless, since you were not in their way when you were behind them to start with.

Your comment about not picking laws as we please is entirely questionable.
My argument is entirely based on a complaint for what I believe to be an at least very questionable law, I am obviously not promoting going against the law.

Whats questionable about it? We do not get to pick and choose. If we could there would be no penalties. Just because a law is unenforced or you never get nailed for breaking it does not make it any less valid. If you feel against a law feel free to speak to your MPP about it. It's your right to contact them and they are there to work for you the taxpayer.

It's just funny/sad to see this kind of bigotry against others' opinions without apparent motivation and without valid supporting arguments other than asserting arseholes are multiplying.

Right.. just because you do not agree with something does not make it any less valid. You may want to formulate your own valid defense and try again.

If you don't believe arseholes are multiplying, tell me this are the roads getting better or worse to drive on?

[slowbird]

I can see how people can get upset about Filtering cause it is very much like cutting in line, and thats rude. I am also one for being polite and I dislike rude and inconsiderate people.

Sometimes though, I have filtered for my own safety. I remember one situation where an old guy in a big old dirty pickup truck was behind me and kept stopping extremely close to my rear wheel. At the next red light I filtered through a few cars to the front of the line and a car tried opening his door to block my way. (lucklily I was going quite slowly, and I don't think it was an attempt to block as much as intimidate or change my mind)

I memorized the plate of the tailgating pickup and reported it to Roadwatch, but the door guy I didn't catch his plate.

[psycho44]

hmmm do people get upset when I have to risk my safety by zig zagging past them after the lights turned green because I can't filter to the front? End results is the same I get clear roads ahead of me but clearly 2 different car driver's reactions to ways of getting to that point.

[caboose483]

its part of the deal. You get a bubble, the whole lane to travel in, no one is supposed to lane split with you when you are running along because you are considered the same as a full size vehicle under the HTA.

But you follow all the rules that go with that, IE, you can't lane split with others/ filter/ so on.

So a motorcycle is considered a full sized vehicle and is entitled to the entire lane.. but an actual full size vehicle is not? I see.

hmmm do people get upset when I have to risk my safety by zig zagging past them after the lights turned green because I can't filter to the front? End results is the same I get clear roads ahead of me but clearly 2 different car driver's reactions to ways of getting to that point.

You have to? Or you choose to?