Forks of the credit road to Guelph question.

[Wingboy]

Turbo you are making an assumption that all riders speed excessively or treat that road like a track. Some of us actualy do go there to enjoy the scenery and ride within reasonable limits. Alot of people complain about speed. When in fact they are complaining about the volume of traffic. They will use the speed issue as an excusse for traffic calming which in turn they intend to use as a means to reduce the traffic in the area. By making the road more of a hassel to drive on, they will assume that vehicles will find another road to travel on. Speed bumps are a hazard. Anytime you introduce a fixed object in the middle of the road, you are creating a hazard.

The road was there before the driveways were constructed. If the residents have entrance visibilty concerns they should have considered that before they purchased their properties. Why should the general public's tax dollars be spent for residents who have buyers remorse concerns. There are alot better places to spend the limited tax dollars and time invested for the few residents who basically want this road to be their own private road.

We all pay taxes and we all have a right to travel on that road. And introducing speed bumps on rural type road is not a safe alternative.

What he said.

[turbodish]

[QUOTE=250R-ICE;1647271]Turbo you are making an assumption that all riders speed excessively or treat that road like a track. Some of

[Wingboy]

If you're there doing reasonable speeds (reasonable meaning somewhere close to the 50 kmph speed limit that is posted on that road) then well-signed speed bumps or speed humps won't pose a hazard to you, nor will it unduly interfere with your scenic appreciation of that road.

Your definition of scenic is not the same as everyone elses.

Speaking of rights, that road is not a provincially-maintained road. It is maintained by the Town of Caledon out of Caledon tax coffers, and that means that Caledon and by extension the residents of Caledon have a far greater right to determine the nature and use of that road than anyone coming from further afield. After alll, they live on the road and they pay for it.

Dilligaf.

Besides, even the "house came later" argument is of questionable value when it comes to that road. Looking at many of those residences along the way, most are of sufficient age that they were probably in place when the road was still a narrow gravel cowpath, and long before the place became a challenge destination for hooligan riders.

I've been using that road for fishing,hiking the Bruce Trail and riding since the 70's.I along with everyone else have reasons like that to use it.Hooligan riders? The average caledon resident doesn't know the difference of one two wheeled machine to the next.You are just as much a part of the problem as anyone.

We do all pay taxes, but I bet very few on this board pay them to the Town of Caledon. However, the people who live along that road do pay taxes to Caledon. The cost to install speed bumps or humps is relatively peanuts. You can bet that Caledon will listen to them long before it will listen to some outsider riders who wants to preserve a test track feel on that road.

Speed bumps? I call em fun bumps! Again...dilligaf.

[250R-ICE]

Turbdish:

I can't see your reply in full for some reason. So I am only responding to what Wingboy has quoted.

You obvioulsy don't have an accurate grasp of how our taxes pay for services such as road maintenance etc. Our income tax, our property taxes, fuel taxes , sales etc all end up contributing to the general tax base. If you think for one minute that those few residents along that stretch of road contribute 100 % from their taxes to maintain that road without any funds comming from other sources, you are dreaming.

Do you have any clue how much is costs to build 1 km of road. Approx . 1 million dollars per km per two lane road. I wouldn't be surprised if the recent road rehab work (retaining walls, curbs , ditching new aspahalt , granular base etc) came out to over 2 million dollars alone. Im not sure how many properties front that strench of road but I highly doubt there are enough properties that can pay for that road on their own. When you pay property taxes only a small portion of your residental tax actual goes to support the Transportation infrastructer of that municipality.

Don't think for one minute that a small municipality like Caledon can support their road network without any additional funding from the Federal and Provincial Gov'ts. And guess who 's taxes are collected by those Gov't. (all of us). I wouldn't be surprised if Caledon's entire yearly Road budget is less than 10 million. and 75% of that is paid by external sources (Federal, Provincial, Development Charges etc).

Bottom line , that is a public road , maintained by public taxes and therfore should be accessable and safe for all of us to use.

If you are in any way suggesting that the local residents have a greater say on the use of that road than of any of us. Then what gives them the right to travel on roads outside their community that "other people paid for". Do you actually believe that the residents along the Forks never speed in front of other peoples houses when they travel outside their community? What makes them more special than any of us. We all speed at one time or another , whether it's intentional or not.

[Wingboy]

Wtf Turbo? Don't want to discuss anymore? I guess he took all his toys and left the sandbox.

[mlc]

He's done that before when I have quoted studies that prove him wrong.

Maybe he took his toys from the sandbox to build sandcastles on the road, to act as speed bumps?

[Wingboy]

He's done that before when I have quoted studies that prove him wrong.

Maybe he took his toys from the sandbox to build sandcastles on the road, to act as speed bumps?

The Region of Waterloo builds them on either side of the old iron bridges over the rivers out here.It's fun to jump em with the Hypermotard when there is no other traffic.

[turbodish]

He's done that before when I have quoted studies that prove him wrong.

Maybe he took his toys from the sandbox to build sandcastles on the road, to act as speed bumps?

No, it's called an abysmal connection doing unpredictable things to message posts. And what studies have you ever posted to "prove" me wrong?

[Wingboy]

And what studies have you ever posted to "prove" me wrong?

This is a discussion board.We value your input here Turbo.There are no scummy lawyers here following legal protocol to present a case.Everyone is equal (until they break the rules) in this mish mash of two wheeled types.Nobody needs to prove anyone right or wrong.It's all about giving what you got to enlighten us all and make us all wiser in the end.You didn't need to edit your post.It was your opinion,and you are entitled to it.

[turbodish]

Bottom line , that is a public road , maintained by public taxes and therfore should be accessable and safe for all of us to use.

If you are in any way suggesting that the local residents have a greater say on the use of that road than of any of us. Then what gives them the right to travel on roads outside their community that "other people paid for". Do you actually believe that the residents along the Forks never speed in front of other peoples houses when they travel outside their community? What makes them more special than any of us. We all speed at one time or another , whether it's intentional or not.

I have a pretty good grasp of tax revenue flow and redistribution. What you fail to account for is the delegation of governance and responsibility between various levels of government, particularly when it comes to our roads sustem.

Like it or not there is a difference between a provincial highway vs a regional road vs a town road. The difference is not only in who pays for maintenance and upgrades, but also in who determines the nature and traffiuc flow on a given road. A town road is not a highway, and a town has broad authority to shape traffic flow on town roads through the of speed limits, traffic calming measures, entry restrictions etc.

Setting low speed limits (and 50 kmph on the Forks road is quite reasonable given the nature of the road and the variety of different users), traffic calming etc does not impinge on any "right" of the public to use a road. And like it or not, the local roads authority and politicians have every right in a democratic jurisdiction to act on the wishes of local voters when it comes to roads and other departments under their jurisdiction.

This has nothing to do with their "right" to come into your neighbourhood and speed, for there is no such "right", not for them in your neighbourhood, and not for you in their's.

[turbodish]

This is a discussion board.We value your input here Turbo.There are no scummy lawyers here following legal protocol to present a case.Everyone is equal (until they break the rules) in this mish mash of two wheeled types.Nobody needs to prove anyone right or wrong.It's all about giving what you got to enlighten us all and make us all wiser in the end.You didn't need to edit your post.It was your opinion,and you are entitled to it.

The post was edited for formatting only. For some reason the blankline betwen paragraphs wenht away. Then most of the post went away after blank lines were inserted. Oh well.

[01cbr]

Thats exactly it. Bascially shut the **** up or move. I will gladly buy someones house on the forks! Trade maybe??

LOL, its a mill + to get on cedar drive.

[01cbr]

It wouldn't be good if they install them. Even if we can ride between the bumps. What a way to ruin one of the few scenic roads we have within the GTA. I can understand some the concerns the local residents have. But there has to be a balance between the general public and local resident's concerns.

What strikes me about this whole not in my backyard movement. Is that these same people have no probelms driving their vehicles in other neighbourhoods and most likely just like all of us go above the speed limits (whether it's intentional or not)......

I seriously doubt the those residence like to do laps around random subdivisions in the GTA.
How does going th speed limit ruin the scenic part?

There are plenty of neighborhoods in the gta with speed bumps, how is this any different?

You have an area full of residence who are willing to commute an hour to work to live in the quiet country. Most of them have also paid a million or more for their property.........you really dont think they are going to complain about the traffic? Especially when there is no practical reason for it?

[250R-ICE]

I seriously doubt the those residence like to do laps around random subdivisions in the GTA.
How does going th speed limit ruin the scenic part?

There are plenty of neighborhoods in the gta with speed bumps, how is this any different?

You have an area full of residence who are willing to commute an hour to work to live in the quiet country. Most of them have also paid a million or more for their property.........you really dont think they are going to complain about the traffic? Especially when there is no practical reason for it?

I'm not sugessting in any way that the local residents along the Forks intentional speed once outside their area. But I also doubt they aren't any different than you or I, and will on occasion speed in their daily commutes. So therefore the same people that are doing the complaining are also guilty of what they are blaming others are doing.

What makes them so special that they are allowed to commute in other communities (whether it's for work or pleasure) and yet the rest of us shouldn't be allowed to travel on a public road through their community?

With regards to your comment about speed bumps being used in other communties. I agree with you that it isn't any different. In my opinion speed bumps should not be allowed anywhere on public roads. Ask any emeregency response personal what they think about speed bumps. They also become a maintenance issues over time and good luck trying trying to plow a road with bumps all over all the palce. If you think the solution to reduce speeding is by using speed bumps then why aren't they an approved standard in the Ministry of Transportation Geometric Road Design Gudelines, TAC guidelines, AASHTO etc. Speed bumps are intended for slowing down traffic in high pedestrian conflict areas such as busy parking lots. They were never intended to control traffic speeds for roadways.

The only reason they are being used on some roads is because the local vocal minority convinced their local councilors. Who most likey have no idea what they are supporting and only care about getting votes.

Everyone has a right to complain about traffic, but those same people doing the complaining should also realize that they also contribute to traffic in their daily commutes in communities outside of where they reside.

[01cbr]

I'm not sugessting in any way that the local residents along the Forks intentional speed once outside their area. But I also doubt they aren't any different than you or I, and will on occasion speed in their daily commutes. So therefore the same people that are doing the complaining are also guilty of what they are blaming others are doing.

What makes them so special that they are allowed to commute in other communities (whether it's for work or pleasure) and yet the rest of us shouldn't be allowed to travel on a public road through their community?

With regards to your comment about speed bumps being used in other communties. I agree with you that it isn't any different. In my opinion speed bumps should not be allowed anywhere on public roads. Ask any emeregency response personal what they think about speed bumps. They also become a maintenance issues over time and good luck trying trying to plow a road with bumps all over all the palce. If you think the solution to reduce speeding is by using speed bumps then why aren't they an approved standard in the Ministry of Transportation Geometric Road Design Gudelines, TAC guidelines, AASHTO etc. Speed bumps are intended for slowing down traffic in high pedestrian conflict areas such as busy parking lots. They were never intended to control traffic speeds for roadways.

The only reason they are being used on some roads is because the local vocal minority convinced their local councilors. Who most likey have no idea what they are supporting and only care about getting votes.

Everyone has a right to complain about traffic, but those same people doing the complaining should also realize that they also contribute to traffic in their daily commutes in communities outside of where they reside.

I doubt they are commuting through residencial streets, your argument doesnt hold.

[250R-ICE]

Turbodish,

If there is one thing I figured out during our debates here. Is that you are a master of twisting what others are saying for your own justification.

Lets just say we are never going to agree on this issue and just enjoy our rides through the Forks while we still can...

[250R-ICE]

So what are you suggesting? We should all live in gated communities where only the local traffic are allowed to use the local roads. Again the residents in Caledon are no different than you are I. We all have a right to use the public roads whether it's for pleasure, to commute for work or whatever. I am in no way suggesting we shouldn't abide by the local traffic laws. But in my opinion the residents along the Forks are using the assumed speed issue as a means to deter traffic from using a public road in their community.

[01cbr]

So what are you suggesting? We should all live in gated communities where only the local traffic are allowed to use the local roads. Again the residents in Caledon are no different than you are I. We all have a right to use the public roads whether it's for pleasure, to commute for work or whatever. I am in no way suggesting we shouldn't abide by the local traffic laws. But in my opinion the residents along the Forks are using the assumed speed issue as a means to deter traffic from using a public road in their community.

If any purly residencial street in the gta suddenly saw that amount of traffic there would be an issue as well.

[250R-ICE]

If any purly residencial street in the gta suddenly saw that amount of traffic there would be an issue as well.

I'm not disagreeing with you on that. But whether for better or worse traffic patterns, volumes etc change over time. Some roads that may have once been considered a local residential road has by virtue of traffic growth, become a higher category of road. The Forks of The Credit may have been at one time been a local road with only local traffic. But that doesn't give the local residents the right to deter access to a public road. For example we all have a right to visit Belfountaion Conservation Area. Why should the general public not be allowed to use the Forks as a way to get there?

My main point in all these discssions is that the local residents are using a percieved speed issue as a way to actually deter traffic volumes.

[01cbr]

I'm not disagreeing with you on that. But whether for better or worse traffic patterns, volumes etc change over time. Some roads that may have once been considered a local residential road has by virtue of traffic growth, become a higher category of road. The Forks of The Credit may have been at one time been a local road with only local traffic. But that doesn't give the local residents the right to deter access to a public road. For example we all have a right to visit Belfountaion Conservation Area. Why should the general public not be allowed to use the Forks as a way to get there?

My main point in all these discssions is that the local residents are using a percieved speed issue as a way to actually deter traffic volumes.

Money talks, the residence there have it.
They cant tell you to keep out, but they can make you think twice about going there.

Im suprised they havent dropped the speed limit to 40 km/h there yet.