Red Dawn Discussion

[Wingboy]

All bikes at DOCC trackdays are checked for coolant at tech.If it means taking an hour to take bodywork off...too bad.There are too many folks that try to squeeze thru tech or simply don't know how to check or change coolant.Imho it's too important an issue to let it be based on an honour system.Everyones safety is at stake,and that's the bottom line.

[Wingboy]

I agree with experineced riders such as caboose483 and his thoughts and help he has given many riders at the track.

Fawaz runs a great day and have been nothing but impressed since my first td last year and have been doing more this year all due to the way Racer5 runs their days and the riders that go out of their way to help new riders get better.

I knew nothing about maintence on my bike but after being shown once i can drain the rad clean it out and fill it with water wetter inn less then 20 mins and get faster everytime i do it. I bring a bottle of water wetter with me to all my track days so i can help out anyone that needs to change out the antifreeze and I know its a small thing but its what I can do right now that i fell comfortable with and i hope it helps at least one rider not lose a day.

I thank all riders that have helped me and continue to do so, you make the td a fun experience and Racer5 is a great td organizer.

Good post and great attitude.I wish everyone felt and did the same.Not everyone on the track is your best friend.

[Yamaha_Gurl]

If someone is not clear on how to flush coolant out of your bike, I will gladly assist at any track day that I am attending.

[stormcat]

fbm wrote that Stormcat was too green and lacked the experience for a Red Dawn trackday.... then also wrote that Red Dawn days appeal to the crowd that prefer to take their street bikes to the track as they require less prep than other organizers and they don't want to feel intimidated.

sounds to me like these riders are also pretty green.

maybe they are unwilling to check their ego at the door? maybe they're unwilling to show up as "fast street riders" only to be fed their humble pie? if a bunch of no-talent-hacks want to rent the track for the day and ride however they want.. all the power to them. As long as the day is advertised as such i have no qualms with it.

Everyone the day of the event was really nice and no one gave me any attitude. Not to my face or that I'm aware of anyway. I think everyone knew I was really embarrassed about crashing, causing the first red flag of the day, and how nervous I was to go back out on the track. As a matter of fact, everyone was really helpful and I had a few folks approach me and ask me if I wanted them to look over my bike and make sure it was mechanically sound, and look into my suspension setup. I have no complaints about the riders I met there. The criticisms made by 08CBR1000 come as a complete surprise to me.

[Wingboy]

Everyone the day of the event was really nice and no one gave me any attitude. Not to my face or that I'm aware of anyway. I think everyone knew I was really embarrassed about crashing, causing the first red flag of the day, and how nervous I was to go back out on the track. As a matter of fact, everyone was really helpful and I had a few folks approach me and ask me if I wanted them to look over my bike and make sure it was mechanically sound, and look into my suspension setup. I have no complaints about the riders I met there. The criticisms made by 08CBR1000 come as a complete surprise to me.

Did your gear (all of it) and your bike go thru tech inspection again before you went out again?

[stormcat]

Did your gear (all of it) and your bike go thru tech inspection again before you went out again?

Again? I didn't go through any tech inspection whatsoever. As a matter of fact, I had forgotten my BP at home and was told I "didn't need one." That's not good enough for me and my personal safety standards, so I was happy when another woman there happened to have an extra one and lent it to me for the day.

For the record, my mirrors were removed, my lights were taped, my fuses pulled for the signals and brake light, my rear signals, plate and FE kit were removed, and again, I was running Water Wetter. I basically set my bike up in the same way as it was for Calabogie/Turn2.

[KawasakiGal]

When I did intro to track, they did not require BP's either, I assume its because they figured we wouldnt be travelling as fast? Regardless, that day I learned the importance of one from some pro's and have since purchased to make sure I would meet requirements of track day organizers in future.

Again? I didn't go through any tech inspection whatsoever. As a matter of fact, I had forgotten my BP at home and was told I "didn't need one." That's not good enough for me and my personal safety standards, so I was happy when another woman there happened to have an extra one and lent it to me for the day.

For the record, my mirrors were removed, my lights were taped, my fuses pulled for the signals and brake light, my rear signals, plate and FE kit were removed, and again, I was running Water Wetter. I basically set my bike up in the same way as it was for Calabogie/Turn2.

[stormcat]

When I did intro to track, they did not require BP's either, I assume its because they figured we wouldnt be travelling as fast? Regardless, that day I learned the importance of one from some pro's and have since purchased to make sure I would meet requirements of track day organizers in future.

You can seriously injure your back in a slow speed fall. If an organization doesn't demand a BP, the rider should still take it upon themselves to wear one. At Calabogie through Turn2, no one was allowed to ride on the track without a BP. You were checked as you brought your bike into the paddock. No exceptions. Just the way is should be.

[KawasakiGal]

Yeah good point, glad I have one now....I just cant remember the organization that ran it...but its the TMP intro.....I also thought similar to Calabogie there would have been a check where they would look over gear....

You can seriously injure your back in a slow speed fall. If an organization doesn't demand a BP, the rider should still take it upon themselves to wear one. At Calabogie through Turn2, no one was allowed to ride on the track without a BP. You were checked as you brought your bike into the paddock. No exceptions. Just the way is should be.

[dricked]

I've been to two of those days and it's like thunderdome. My very first day was with them and I didn't have a problem with it but now that I've done a few more with different organizers I don't think I'll go back. It's just not safe to have people that should be in beginner running with adv/pro riders. I had a couple corner entry incidents with people locking it up before the corner and I had to pass or lowside, against the rules but I'm not going down for that. There was a request for slow pit speeds and I saw some clowns pull wheelies/stoppies and clearly speeding with no consequences, hence the reason why I didn't call it a rule. Nice guys who run it but they need to inforce rules to keep it safe. Ps. Never been checked for my bp at any td.

[kamenrider]

No problem with how Reddawn run their TD "as long as" all participants will be informed all associated risks with their rather relaxed rules. Since they are attracting New to track riders from timmies parking lot, those new to track riders have no idea of track riding risks. It is a minimum responsibility for experienced riders and organizers to inform them such risks. (and if any experienced riders running on their days, they must be desperate to ride...probably schedule conflict etc... I am sure they do not want to be there if they have choice, specially their TD cost is almost double.)

Pro 6 run VIP days with Open track, but it is strictly for experienced/regular riders, not for new riders who cannot hold race lines. Open track is a great idea but it is only possible if everyone on the track is experienced skilled riders. It will be so much more dangerous to allow regular street bikes on the same track with all skill level of riders.
It is not only a big risk for new riders but also for experienced riders. Therefore, you rarely see an experienced racers/riders to endorse such TD. We do not want to crash into anyone because of their riding line is not steady, or tire slips at turn because of leaking oil/coolant, or run over broken mirror etc(and those broken parts can cut leather/flesh like butter...)
BTW - Any bike went down, you should go through the tech again, specially if you are not credited mechanic. It is your and fellow riders safety.

[fbm]

your the man i agree with your post these are the type of people trackday organizers need at there trackdays full stop

I agree with experineced riders such as caboose483 and his thoughts and help he has given many riders at the track.

Fawaz runs a great day and have been nothing but impressed since my first td last year and have been doing more this year all due to the way Racer5 runs their days and the riders that go out of their way to help new riders get better.

I knew nothing about maintence on my bike but after being shown once i can drain the rad clean it out and fill it with water wetter inn less then 20 mins and get faster everytime i do it. I bring a bottle of water wetter with me to all my track days so i can help out anyone that needs to change out the antifreeze and I know its a small thing but its what I can do right now that i fell comfortable with and i hope it helps at least one rider not lose a day.

I thank all riders that have helped me and continue to do so, you make the td a fun experience and Racer5 is a great td organizer.

[fbm]

thank you yellow duck you are right that's exactly what i was saying

??? If you *read* fbm's post, he was just saying that you were not ready for the type of track day that Reddawn runs (open track, no groups), which is exactly what you are saying as well. He never said you don't belong on the track. He also never said you were running with coolant, although you seem to think he did. Maybe you owe him an apology?

[fbm]

I except your apology stormcat i like you too you alright. I think you should ask questions here just ask the question and thats it nothing else. i am not sure which track you will be at next but next but let me know and if i am there ill come say hi to you.

I apologize, but I'm sick of this. I ask some questions and get slagged. I guess next time I have questions, I'll just approach the TD organizer myself and not post it here.

[fbm]

Caboose483 i think you will find safe experience riders at the Reddawn day. I cant say every rider is safe there but which trackday has a 100% safe riders there? different riders have different motives when they get to the track. Personally when i show up at a open track event i spend the day working on and perfecting my techniques. one of these technique i am working on is perfecting my backing it in skill. On the flip side of that when i show up at the track and there groups its kinda hard to work on these skills when your riding in the red group especially when you don't want to hold anyone up.

the bottom line is not every trackday rider belong to any particular trackday and not every trackday rider belong in the fast, intermediate, or slow group, but we all have to start from somewhere and we all have choices. I just wish every trackday rider that shows up at a trackday would obey all the rules in that case we wouldn't need tech inspection, back protectors,boots,gloves and list goes on.

You should come out to the next day which is September 15 2011. Before you start bashing the trackday go check it out for your self and then come back on here and tell us about your experience.

I i do however expect you to deny my request, and i also expect you to bash the reddawn trackday some more but who knows just mabe you will come out to play with us green riders at the reddawn trackday with headligts and brake light not tapped-up and coolant in our rads. the last time i went there were some guys out there running 1.18 on stock equipment headlights and all who sometimes hangout at the timmies.

She wasn't bashing Fawaz or Racer5. She asked if Racer5 days were run similar to the other organizer she rode with, which clearly they are not. The only Racer5 bashing i've seen in this thread has come from 08CBR1000.



If I was Fawaz I would ask one of the many riders present who hold valid competition licenses to help that rider get their coolant flushed out so they don't miss their day. The tech requirements are posted on TMP's website and it does state very clearly that water must be used.

http://www.torontomotorsportspark.com/images/File/Motorcycle-Tech-(2011)-OW.pdf

Being ignorant of the rules is no excuse.



You make it sound like flushing out coolant for water is difficult. It really isn't. Most bikes have a drain bolt on/near the water pump. On most bikes it is seriously a ten minute job. Taping up lights also would take about ten minutes. If that is a sufficient deterrent to keep people from the track, what other work on their bike are they not doing? If Red Dawn is not concerned with the safety issues associated with glycol based coolants or acrylic plastic shards on the track.. what other safety issues are they not concerned with?

I guess there is a market for days like this but i really doubt you'll find any experienced track riders or racers participating in those days. What you will find are riders that know very little about bike set up and maintenance as well as riders who know very little about how to ride a motorcycle around a racetrack.

Just my $0.02

[Signalsdrone]

I've been to numerous track days that are Private and the organizer has his set of rules to follow. There are no classes of rider at all except the one that is allowed...MATURE riders only.

That means,

1 - Ride as fast as you want as long as it doesn't involve stuffing people in corners
2 - The rider behind is in charge of passing safely, if it means waiting a whole lap....ohh well
3 - Water wetter, we don't want to make unwarranted trips to the infield or outfield
4 - Tape you lights, I don't care when you put your brakes on
5 - Everyone comes home with all their limbs attached
6 - Everyone has fun

So far it's been nothing but smiles for everyone involved. We have a couple of guys that will pull some monster wheelies so we give them room. We've had some really new newbies.....we give them room. We've had some guys on street bikes / sport-tourers / cruisers.....we give them room too.

When it comes down to it, safety is a personal desicion. Don't do things that will jeopardize others and the same behaviour will be given to you. Then all people can have a good time.

It's that easy.

[caboose483]

Caboose483 i think you will find safe experience riders at the Reddawn day. I cant say every rider is safe there but which trackday has a 100% safe riders there? different riders have different motives when they get to the track. Personally when i show up at a open track event i spend the day working on and perfecting my techniques. one of these technique i am working on is perfecting my backing it in skill. On the flip side of that when i show up at the track and there groups its kinda hard to work on these skills when your riding in the red group especially when you don't want to hold anyone up.

the bottom line is not every trackday rider belong to any particular trackday and not every trackday rider belong in the fast, intermediate, or slow group, but we all have to start from somewhere and we all have choices. I just wish every trackday rider that shows up at a trackday would obey all the rules in that case we wouldn't need tech inspection, back protectors,boots,gloves and list goes on.

You should come out to the next day which is September 15 2011. Before you start bashing the trackday go check it out for your self and then come back on here and tell us about your experience.

I i do however expect you to deny my request, and i also expect you to bash the reddawn trackday some more but who knows just mabe you will come out to play with us green riders at the reddawn trackday with headligts and brake light not tapped-up and coolant in our rads. the last time i went there were some guys out there running 1.18 on stock equipment headlights and all who sometimes hangout at the timmies.

It would be ideal if i came to check out one of the RD trackdays. I may be able to swing by on the 15th but I don't have a bike to ride at the moment. That being said, I can make up my mind just by spectating. I don't need to ride at a RD trackday to make that judgement call.

May I ask why you are trying to learn how to "back it in"?

Your point about if we all followed the rules we wouldn't need tech, gloves, boots, etc, doesn't make any sense. Unless one of those rules is "No Crashing"...

If you're worried about holding people up you are in the wrong group. One of the fundamental rules of riding on the track is to ride as though you are the only one on the track. The faster riders will get by you cleanly so long as you hold your line and ride in a predictable manner. If you're attempts to learn how to back it in make you an inconsistent rider that also makes your riding unpredicable. That can make it difficult for a faster rider to pass you.

Backing it in really is not a useful track riding skill. There are very few riders who can do it without losing significant time so I can't help but question your motives. To be honest, its statements like this that make me pretty certain I have no interest in riding at a RD day. I don't need to actually put my dick in a toaster to know it is a bad idea.

[reciprocity]

Hahahaha,

"PERFECTING MY BACKING IT IN SKILL!"

[dricked]

I was there last time and I was turning 1:20's.....I didn't see a 1:18. There were two maybe 3 other guys running my pace, everyone else I'm pretty sure I passed. I guess all the fast guys stayed home that day Besides, you can barely get a clean lap in anyway untill you run up on a slower guy.

[fbm]

was this july 14th or back on august 11th

I was there last time and I was turning 1:20's.....I didn't see a 1:18. There were two maybe 3 other guys running my pace, everyone else I'm pretty sure I passed. I guess all the fast guys stayed home that day Besides, you can barely get a clean lap in anyway untill you run up on a slower guy.