Advanced Riding Course with Turn 2

[stormcat]

I don't see what HP has to do with cornering or riding the race line. I did find it was frustrating on the straights though.

It moved my friend's 200 lb a** around the track. Although he did bottom out the suspension big time!

Being fast is not as important as doing things correctly. Riding correctly will result in being able to ride correctly faster and faster progressively.

[2live&ride]

Not sure if it has been mentioned earlier, but if I sign up for one of these courses, can I bring my own bike or do I have to use their 125/250?

Didn't turn2 go belly up recently?...
What are other schools/alternatives?

[Wheelieboy]

How is it possible for a 13 HP bike like the CBR125R to give you any kind of track experience? The latter being not only cornering and choosing the best line, but also opening her up in the straights for pure addictive acceleration and speed! For all I know, if I can't attain the ripping speed I am dreaming of, how would I even learn to do proper braking?!

13HP---I've never been on one, but is that thing even capable of moving my fat 190lb *** around above the speed limit?

...pardon my apparent ignorance, just wondering here.

Going fast in the corners is where its at. You dont need to learn acceleration/braking as much as you need to choose the best line and cornering. Once you've learned the fundamentals you can build on it. But if you dont learn the fundamentals properly, you'll never ride to your full potential.

At the Racer 5 school, the 13 hp cbr125's were being held up by the 180hp 1000's. Guess who didnt take track school?

[OMMRA]

Good point Frankie,

Last year my boy was being held up in the corners on a KX80 by 600's and 1000's. Of course they leave him on the straights but a few corners in and he'd be passing them on the inside/outside. Later in the year he hopped on an RS125 and was running better times than guys on 600's. Learn to ride the slower bikes fast before jumping on a fast bike.
The smaller displacement bikes are much more forgiving of your mistakes and teach you to be smooth. Being fast is a byproduct of being smooth. Anyone can go fast on the straights but the corners is where the action is.

[Brian P]

How is it possible for a 13 HP bike like the CBR125R to give you any kind of track experience? The latter being not only cornering and choosing the best line, but also opening her up in the straights for pure addictive acceleration and speed! For all I know, if I can't attain the ripping speed I am dreaming of, how would I even learn to do proper braking?!

13HP---I've never been on one, but is that thing even capable of moving my fat 190lb *** around above the speed limit?

...pardon my apparent ignorance, just wondering here.

Straightaways are irrelevant for the purpose of learning how to take corners properly. Taking corners properly is a critical part of riding properly.

The 125 teaches smoothness, because it will react to your every move, including the wrong ones. It teaches cornering speed, because if you take a wrong cornering line and have low cornering speed as a result, the result will be obvious.

Wheelieboy in action http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUlqT..._order&list=UL - the helmet cam doesn't give an indication of the lean angles involved, but the scraping footpegs does ... and pay attention to what starts happening around 1:30 and then around 2:50 ... Passing was not allowed except on straightaways, which is unfortunate, because those bigger bikes were REALLY slowing him down. (I was there, watching from the paddock, when this video was taken)

[GRAYZ]

How is it possible for a 13 HP bike like the CBR125R to give you any kind of track experience? The latter being not only cornering and choosing the best line, but also opening her up in the straights for pure addictive acceleration and speed! For all I know, if I can't attain the ripping speed I am dreaming of, how would I even learn to do proper braking?!

The problem is that a lot of HP early in your track experience causes you to charge into corners and basically brake through the apex; accelerate late (after you are already through the corner); not even think about appropriate corner speed, and; not even think about braking points.

When you are limited by power, your lap times are determined by how well you manage your momentum around the track. To do this you need to actually learn how much speed you can carry through a corner, how late you can brake before the corner, and how early you can get back on the throttle... at least. That is why so many people advocate for starting with smaller displacement engines before moving up. And learning all that makes for a much better track experience than twisting the throttle all day and riding erratically, which we see way too often.

[stormcat]

Not sure if it has been mentioned earlier, but if I sign up for one of these courses, can I bring my own bike or do I have to use their 125/250?

Didn't turn2 go belly up recently?...
What are other schools/alternatives?

Turn2 never did have 125s. Racer5 has them. Yes, Turn2 is no more, sadly.

[rafiki911]

Turn2 never did have 125s. Racer5 has them. Yes, Turn2 is no more, sadly.

I've heard that Racer 5 has bought most of the Turn 2 250s

[stormcat]

I've heard that Racer 5 has bought most of the Turn 2 250s

IDK about that. I believe Racer5 is contemplating selling some bikes.

[Corsara]

Straightaways are irrelevant for the purpose of learning how to take corners properly. Taking corners properly is a critical part of riding properly.

The 125 teaches smoothness, because it will react to your every move, including the wrong ones. It teaches cornering speed, because if you take a wrong cornering line and have low cornering speed as a result, the result will be obvious.

Wheelieboy in action http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUlqT..._order&list=UL - the helmet cam doesn't give an indication of the lean angles involved, but the scraping footpegs does ... and pay attention to what starts happening around 1:30 and then around 2:50 ... Passing was not allowed except on straightaways, which is unfortunate, because those bigger bikes were REALLY slowing him down. (I was there, watching from the paddock, when this video was taken)

Thanks a lot for this video! Indeed it is very impressive how it takes only about a lap for the 125 rider to catch-up with all other bikes and even be held up by them. However, these other bikers didn't seem to neither lean nor hang-off the bikes in the turns, kind of leaving me with the feeling they were moving super slow. Even on the street I need to lean my bike and even hang off the seat a bit if I'm going even a bit more spiritedly... so again, perhaps it was the very newbie company this guy had, that's why he was catching up, though clearly he is showing a lot of skill?

[john bickle]

Yes we did,,, Aprilia 125's 4 of them.

[YellowDuck]

Great video indeed. I think one of those 125s would be an absolute blast, if you could ride it on a track with just other folks on the same bike. At a track day, having pokey people on 600s hold you up in every corner, then walk away from you on every tiny straight, would start to get disheartening after a while.

[ZX600]

Great video indeed. I think one of those 125s would be an absolute blast, if you could ride it on a track with just other folks on the same bike. At a track day, having pokey people on 600s hold you up in every corner, then walk away from you on every tiny straight, would start to get disheartening after a while.

Putting things in context, most 600 or 1000 riders I know wouldn't be holding up a 125, most of those guys had tapped bikes meaning probably first track day or soo, since they were not allowed to pass on turns that was the green group. Maybe wheelie boy should have been on a faster group.
I know many people that ride 125's, 250's or 500's and 600's that anyone with any skill would pass with a trycicle on turns.

The point is learn properly and dedicate yourself, don't just take a course and start talking like you are a pro, it takes dedication, lots of it no matter what bike you ride. Tha's why i still suck to my expectations, because I haven't put in the work i need it too.

[stormcat]

Yes we did,,, Aprilia 125's 4 of them.

If we're talking 2-stroke 125 goodness, that's a bit different from a CBR125.

[john bickle]

If all you want is the excitment of going fast in a straight line,,,maybe drag racing is more your ticket.[which there is nothing wrong with]
That being said,,,having raced 125 GP bikes and 250's for about 30 years,,, anybody can go in a straight line. So a 125 CBR WILL
humble you and then you can be taught. At Turn 2 in the good days, I would ususally take an Aprilia 125 or Ninja 250 for half the day. While my
students were on 600's. Very few could keep up,,even in a straight line. But in reality,,most were happy to go slower cause they were over whelmed!
So understand the track is different. You don"t have stop signs or lights so you have to use your head and judge where to brake hard or just scrub speed,,, not to mention yes ,, you can drive on the left!. At Calabogie on a Ninja 250 I could do a 2:38[lap record is 2 minutes on a Szokes Superbike .Which means I was loosing 7.6 seconds per kilometer to a Superbike] NO straight line speed all corners! So when I got on a 6 or 10 the straight line speed just made it easier,,but you still need to manage corners.
explain why Rossi would take out a 125 GP bike anytime he could after "big bike" practice? Becasue it taught him to ride and showed his mistakes. Plus if he did get it a little loose or sideways it was more manageable
Big bikes will hide you mistakes,[until you hit the ground],, small bikes,,,wil slap you in the face every mistake you make. So be humbled and learn or,,, ride a big bike and use half throttle! There is a lot more to learn then just going to the track. Becasue you have riden on the street for X number of years,,,,really,,,trackside,,, means nothing!
A CBR 125 has a very short seat window,,,meaning you will look for something bigger if you master it. But what you learn will be monumentous. Not to mention,,,every year racers should rent/borrow a 125 and go humble themselves! Don't be afraid of a little bike!

[john bickle]

If we're talking 2-stroke 125 goodness, that's a bit different from a CBR125.

Well in some ways,,, the Aprillia's were heavy and lazy. Jetting was weird,,,but that's a Delorto carb thing. I could max 171KPH just before corner 5 at Calabogie[stock trim ] if I got a good draft. The Ninja 250 would hit 160 and the throttle cables were about 2 inches longer.
A couple racer kids I worked with would max out on the CBR at 13oKPH and hit 135 if I sat in front and let them draft.
So 130KPH on a 125 is a great learning speed. Considering most first and second sessions at Bogie I would not exceed 100 K.
Even with a big frame on them 190pounds, you can attain speeds that will allow you to learn cornering techniques.
Consider most schools,, have half throttle stops on the 600's and most never even notice!

[TLDeano]

Well in some ways,,, the Aprillia's were heavy and lazy. Jetting was weird,,,but that's a Delorto carb thing. I could max 171KPH just before corner 5 at Calabogie[stock trim ] if I got a good draft. The Ninja 250 would hit 160 and the throttle cables were about 2 inches longer.
A couple racer kids I worked with would max out on the CBR at 13oKPH and hit 135 if I sat in front and let them draft.
So 130KPH on a 125 is a great learning speed. Considering most first and second sessions at Bogie I would not exceed 100 K.
Even with a big frame on them 190pounds, you can attain speeds that will allow you to learn cornering techniques.
Consider most schools,, have half throttle stops on the 600's and most never even notice!

Remember Daryl Cooney ?

[caboose483]

Thanks a lot for this video! Indeed it is very impressive how it takes only about a lap for the 125 rider to catch-up with all other bikes and even be held up by them. However, these other bikers didn't seem to neither lean nor hang-off the bikes in the turns, kind of leaving me with the feeling they were moving super slow. Even on the street I need to lean my bike and even hang off the seat a bit if I'm going even a bit more spiritedly... so again, perhaps it was the very newbie company this guy had, that's why he was catching up, though clearly he is showing a lot of skill?

Odds are you are a lot slower than you think.

[rafiki911]

Not sure if it has been mentioned earlier, but if I sign up for one of these courses, can I bring my own bike or do I have to use their 125/250?

Didn't turn2 go belly up recently?...
What are other schools/alternatives?

SOAR does weekend type thing where it's a course on the Friday, track time on the Saturday and Races on the Sunday. All on your own bike.

http://soaracing.ca/html/about_us.htm

[2live&ride]

SOAR does weekend type thing where it's a course on the Friday, track time on the Saturday and Races on the Sunday. All on your own bike.

http://soaracing.ca/html/about_us.htm

Thanks for the link, after reading the above posts I think it would be better to start on something small! lol...
What other schools offer this kind of program?