My 2nd TD and 1st ever crash

[Beastess]

Hey

Glad to hear your ok, and kudos to you for getting back on even if slow and making yourself do it!!! I have to go back for my 2 nd trackday but I will say I went off in that same day on my first track day...never dumped just offroaded for a little haha...

Jenn

Checking the consistancy of the grass and scenary were ya? LOL
Eve

[Brian P]

6 is the almost-180-degree hairpin left with a couple of nifty ripples in the pavement (but then, what corner at Cayuga doesn't have ripples in the pavement ...)

You actually don't want to be completely off the brakes before turning in. What you want to do for that corner is brake all the way to the turn in point then modulate the brakes off at the same time as you turn in. This is true of most corners on any racetrack that require braking before you enter them.

Why is this ... to avoid (or minimize) unsettling the front end. As you are braking, the fork springs are compressed. When you are turning, the fork springs are compressed. If the transition from braking to turning happens smoothly and simultaneously, the forks remain compressed throughout. This means the bike is not going up and down as you are going between braking and turning. It also keeps the bike in a nose-down attitude, steepening the rake angle and actually making it easier to turn in when it's like this. It also keeps weight on the contact patch so that it maintains traction throughout the whole process.

Obviously, that requires a certain amount of co-ordination (and a lot of laps of practice, to get the brake and turn-in markers right) and it's not going to happen while you are learning the track - but then, you are normally going a bit slower while learning the track anyway.

[Panici]

OP, glad you are relatively alright! Good show for getting back on there, you're a trooper

T6 is a real bugger. Take the wrong line and it's super bumpy. I actually had my knee bash the ground going through there today because I hit a bump with it.

You actually don't want to be completely off the brakes before turning in. What you want to do for that corner is brake all the way to the turn in point then modulate the brakes off at the same time as you turn in. This is true of most corners on any racetrack that require braking before you enter them.

Interesting. Will try it next time.
I'm always completely off the brakes when turning in right now.

[Fiery254]

6 is the almost-180-degree hairpin left with a couple of nifty ripples in the pavement (but then, what corner at Cayuga doesn't have ripples in the pavement ...)

You actually don't want to be completely off the brakes before turning in. What you want to do for that corner is brake all the way to the turn in point then modulate the brakes off at the same time as you turn in. This is true of most corners on any racetrack that require braking before you enter them.

Why is this ... to avoid (or minimize) unsettling the front end. As you are braking, the fork springs are compressed. When you are turning, the fork springs are compressed. If the transition from braking to turning happens smoothly and simultaneously, the forks remain compressed throughout. This means the bike is not going up and down as you are going between braking and turning. It also keeps the bike in a nose-down attitude, steepening the rake angle and actually making it easier to turn in when it's like this. It also keeps weight on the contact patch so that it maintains traction throughout the whole process.

Obviously, that requires a certain amount of co-ordination (and a lot of laps of practice, to get the brake and turn-in markers right) and it's not going to happen while you are learning the track - but then, you are normally going a bit slower while learning the track anyway.

Probably not a skill anyone should be trying on their 2nd track day.

[hondahhh]

Guess you won't be forgetting that birthday anytime soon Glad you are ok minus the hip issue.

I doubt I would have gotten back on so soon, props for that!!

[stormcat]

Probably not a skill anyone should be trying on their 2nd track day.

Quoting in agreement!

[stormcat]

I doubt I would have gotten back on so soon, props for that!!

Like I said, I wasn't given a choice! LOL! I couldn't let those guys do that work to my bike and then not go back out there. Besides, J didn't ask, he TOLD me we were going back out there and that he was following me. Probably to make sure I really did go back out.

[bjturner]

as you're finding out, track people are some of the best you'll find anywhere.

I've never seen anyone left without help or a bike that needs work on it to get someone back on the track.

It's just the opposite. Somewhat of a swarming at times with people trying to see if they can do anything that can help. You also did one of the best things you could do. Got back out there.

Good job.

[ShiftyEh]

That damn turn 6! Got me too last track day, which was also my second day:

Crash is at about 4:00



Glad your alright! As someone else mentioned too, pick up some armor shorts. I've got Knox shorts that cover the hip and tailbone, not a bruise or sore spot on me after the crash. Highly recommend them as most suits have no armor on the hips. As for getting over the crash, it really comes down to seat time and comfort level. I took turn 6 really easy the next couple times out but was able to pick the speed back up after gaining some confidence back.

[Brian P]

Probably not a skill anyone should be trying on their 2nd track day.

Probably not. But it's something to work towards. It's one of the many things that makes the fast riders fast and not crash (most of the time) ...

[stormcat]

That damn turn 6! Got me too last track day, which was also my second day:

Crash is at about 4:00

Exactly the same place in the corner as where I went down. Except my bike went straight across the lane and about 7' into the grass. I guess my sliders acted like rollerskates for my bike? Heh heh!

I'll definitely look into the armoured shorts. Going down to make an app with Suspension Jesus to have a poke at my bike at RC this week.

[R1Guy]

I know I was definitely off the brakes before turning in.

I'll go back to obsessing endlessly about this now...

I don't know what percentage of my braking is done before the actual turn in starts to happen but majority of it is done with the bike straight up and down then feathered into the corner... because your just starting out I can understand why you were done with the braking before the corner was actually there... After you let off the front brake the bike probably stood back up which unloaded the front end upsetting the suspension as you leaned into the corner.
Stormcat if I can add a couple more bits of advice... Do not try to keep pace with anyone, always go the speed that you comfortable with while holding your lines, speed / body position will follow. From observing your images posted I know your not draggin' any knees as of yet... but you should be positioning half of your arse off the seat and sticking your knee out as your round the corner, it will help you get around that corner faster.

Good show getting back on the bike... true grit for sure!

[stormcat]

Stormcat if I can add a couple more bits of advice... Do not try to keep pace with anyone, always go the speed that you comfortable with while holding your lines, speed / body position will follow. From observing your images posted I know your not draggin' any knees as of yet... but you should be positioning half of your arse off the seat and sticking your knee out as your round the corner, it will help you get around that corner faster.

Good show getting back on the bike... true grit for sure!

Thanks, R1Guy.

Not sure if you recall from my original post, but I had decided that this TD was my day to work on body positioning, which didn't end up working out that way for me at all. I also mentioned that after the crash I suddenly had a hard time making myself get off the bike, and had a hard time forcing myself to look all the way through the turns. I kept glancing around, couldn't focus at all on the prize. I ended up just doing short sessions with long breaks in between (3 laps, 4 laps, 5 laps) to try and get some courage back. I don't have a hard time getting off the bike on the left side whatsoever. The right side I do, so I wanted to work on that. The anxiety I felt going back out there made everything sooooooo much more difficult.

It's going to take time.

[R1Guy]

Thanks, R1Guy.

Not sure if you recall from my original post, but I had decided that this TD was my day to work on body positioning, which didn't end up working out that way for me at all. I also mentioned that after the crash I suddenly had a hard time making myself get off the bike, and had a hard time forcing myself to look all the way through the turns. I kept glancing around, couldn't focus at all on the prize. I ended up just doing short sessions with long breaks in between (3 laps, 4 laps, 5 laps) to try and get some courage back. I don't have a hard time getting off the bike on the left side whatsoever. The right side I do, so I wanted to work on that. The anxiety I felt going back out there made everything sooooooo much more difficult.

It's going to take time.

You don't even need to be "off the bike" just make sure that when your going around a corner half your butt is off (like riding crooked on the bike) the seat even if your bike is straight up and down... believe me it will help you get to where you need to be. Funny most people have trouble with left turns... but the advice is the same for rights as well, make sure you keep your elbows out not tucked in, again this will help you with getting to the right body position.

I can understand being a bit hesitant after a spill .... it's good that you took your time afterwards and limited the laps to what you were comfortable with

[stormcat]

The elbows! This is why the right side is hard for me. I feel like my right arm is in the way. I don't notice that with my left arm. But then again, I'm not using my left hand like I am the right.

I need to learn how to sort of slither around the tank rather than get up and off the seat. My current method is inefficient, cumbersome and exhausting.

EDIT: and how does one get over the fear of running into another rider? I'm so used to leaving too much space on the street because I always think, 'if the rider in front of me goes down, they can't take me with them if I leave more than enough room.' That has translated to the track, so I leave tons of space. It got a bit scary when I was at Calabogie a few weeks ago. There was one painfully slow rider in my group that I almost ran into not once, but twice in T2! That just reenforces my innate survival impulse to stay the hell away from everyone.

[GRAYZ]

Hey Stormcat,

Good idea to get your bike set up with new rubber at RC, they take care of all my bikes. Jeff is a freakin savante. You may need to compromise on your setup and tire choice since you are doing double duty on your bike, but just give them all the information let them work that out for you.

As for riding, best advice I can give is to just try to be as smooth as possible. You'll notice an increase in your confidence and decrease in your laptimes. Best of luck and have fun.

[R1Guy]

EDIT: and how does one get over the fear of running into another rider? I'm so used to leaving too much space on the street because I always think, 'if the rider in front of me goes down, they can't take me with them if I leave more than enough room.' That has translated to the track, so I leave tons of space. It got a bit scary when I was at Calabogie a few weeks ago. There was one painfully slow rider in my group that I almost ran into not once, but twice in T2! That just reenforces my innate survival impulse to stay the hell away from everyone.

The safest way to avoid slow riders and their mistakes is to pass them! I always did the same on the road... stayed ahead of traffic all the time.
But since you are in Novice group your best bet is to set yourself up for the pass on the straights... most beginners have trouble going into the corners braking way too early or too hard creating quite a hazard, give yourself lots of room between them (2 bike lengths or more) then as the last corner before the straight starts to approach get in a little tighter and pass down the straight. The only problem with this is that most novice riders go really fast down the straight so this means you have to be a little faster coming out of the last corner (on the gas) before they are.

[SkyRider]

OP how do u keep your white leathers clean?

[stormcat]

OP how do u keep your white leathers clean?

They're brand new. If you know any women looking for a two-piece A* suit in US 10, let 'em know I'm selling mine. I lost weight, they're now too big. So I bought that 1-piece.

What you don't see in those pics is all the crud from the track on both legs, one shoulder, both elbows, and the tailbone from my crash. It looks like oil ground right into the leather. I even managed to rip the stitching in one elbow. I can fix that stitching myself. The rest I'll just consider "battle scars."

[DaveP]

You don't even need to be "off the bike" just make sure that when your going around a corner half your butt is off (like riding crooked on the bike) the seat even if your bike is straight up and down... believe me it will help you get to where you need to be.

Ouch! your logic hurts my brain... stop giving bad advice. stormcat next time your at a trackday ask one of the instructors to show you around and lisen to their advice, that's the best way to get over any fear your very minor crash may have caused.