You notice very bad body position on trackday... Do you say something?

[Franko!]

I am no expert in body positioning. I am working on it and buy track photos at every trackday to see what I am really doing.... And try again. It is funny how what you think you are doing is not close to what you are doing.

At my last track day, I noticed the rider in front of me was not hanging off the bike at all, and had a crazy lean angle. I was afraid for him. To quote my friend "he is a crash waiting to happen"

My question to the group is: should you say something to someone you don't know or mind your own business?

[R1Guy]

We're all crashes waiting happen...!
Most new riders are looking for input...Personally if someone suggested something to me I would be okay with it and look at what they said objectively, you never stop learning!

[You Know]

Not everyone has perfect form, hanging off is not comfortable for some. Keving Schawntz(sp?) isn't known to hang off much and there are few top riders in AMA that don't. I personally don't hang off, I thought I was until I saw pics of myself, LOL. Nonetheless after 3 years and almost 30 trackdays I continue to improve in confidence, smoothness and lower laptimes. To paraphrase KEITH CODE, hanging off looks cool and it works, but if it doesn't feel good don't force it. Something like that.

[ShiftyEh]

I think it's a great thing to communicate with other riders after a session. Some people may not take criticism all that well but to agree with R1, you never stop learning.

Actually experienced this on my last track day at TMP, was following a guy for a lap and a half, was maybe a half a second to a second faster but didn't force the pass. Seen he was running right over the rumble strips in the chicane which was really upsetting his bike from what I could tell. I caught him as we pulled into our pits and mentioned if he swerves around the rumble strips and the bumps surrounding the rumble strips he should get a good line/drive into the left hander after. He seemed very appreciative and said he'd give it a go next session. I'm all ears at the track and anyone willing to provide some suggestions, please do!

Mind you this is to do with something other than the body positioning but takes the same principal. Someone not hanging off enough, you should say try this out to get off the bike more... etc

[R1Guy]

I've seen a lot of people use the turtle line through to the left ... some say it's faster and I will from time to time use it. I don't like the way the bike un-settles every so slightly after hitting it or the risk of running just slightly wide and rolling off the turtle into the mud-rut

Which leads me to my next point... someone can suggest something but you have to use your own judgement as to how to manage the advice from others to make it work for you, or not.

[ShiftyEh]

someone can suggest something but you have to use your own judgement as to how to manage the advice from others to make it work for you, or not.

Absolutely, if you go out and run it over the berm in 1 cause someone told you to start braking at the cone... Well only one person to blame there... But if someone who appears to have some knowledge on the topic says to hold the bars "this way" while you do "this" and you'll be able to carry more speed or the bike will handle better, there's no harm in trying.

[R1Guy]

Absolutely, if you go out and run it over the berm in 1 cause someone told you to start braking at the cone... Well only one person to blame there... But if someone who appears to have some knowledge on the topic says to hold the bars "this way" while you do "this" and you'll be able to carry more speed or the bike will handle better, there's no harm in trying.

Hey I almost ran over the berm in turn 1 after someone (I won't say who) pre-warned me not to have a lap timer in the line of sight. LOL
Guys with some knowledge or history of track riding are usually the ones you should pay close attention to...!

[ShiftyEh]

Haha, it happens! I have the same setup as you with the timer off to the left of the tach. So far I haven't had any major problems loosing concentration because of the timer. Actually, I'll come in after the session and have to check to see what the times were. I have mine set to display the lap time for 15 seconds so sometimes I can catch a glance of it on the back straight, sometimes I don't catch the times at all.

Realistically, if your an experienced rider you should be able to determine if the last lap you ran was a good lap or not and not really need to see the time in front of your face. But for me, not as experienced, if I do happen to safely check the time, it's instant feedback on my last lap. Maybe I was trying some new lines through a couple corners and I should be able to tell if it worked or not half a lap later, allowing me to adjust accordingly on the next lap.

[spinto]

I am no expert in body positioning. I am working on it and buy track photos at every trackday to see what I am really doing.... And try again. It is funny how what you think you are doing is not close to what you are doing.

At my last track day, I noticed the rider in front of me was not hanging off the bike at all, and had a crazy lean angle. I was afraid for him. To quote my friend "he is a crash waiting to happen"
My question to the group is: should you say something to someone you don't know or mind your own business?

If it was me...i would consider what qualifications i have to criticize. I have seen guys riding not off the bike much and are quick. Further, i have seen guys that are off the bike like a MotoGp rider and they're snails. The new DOT tires have a lot of lean angle built into them and tremendous adhesion.

Riding position starts in the pits....then take it to the track and add it everything else you're doing.

[Franko!]

If it was me...i would consider what qualifications i have to criticize. I have seen guys riding not off the bike much and are quick. Further, i have seen guys that are off the bike like a MotoGp rider and they're snails. The new DOT tires have a lot of lean angle built into them and tremendous adhesion.

Riding position starts in the pits....then take it to the track and add it everything else you're doing.

Fair point, but there is always a positive way to say something. In this case I the bike angle was so much he was scraping his aftermarket rear sets. I was honestly worried he was going to get hurt.

I walked up and said that I am no expert, but I am worried that the bike's angle is way too much and you should try to hang off more so the bike is more up right. If you don't believe me, go have at look at your photos. I then said that I hope I have not offended you.

He then told me his bike was squirming around, the back stepped out a few times and showed me his rearset. He didn't know what sag was, so I told him about John Sharrard. He took his bike over and got it set up. I was behind him after a few sessions and the bike angle was much less and he told me it felt more stable.

I know I took a chance, but I really felt the need to say something. If he told me to mind my own business, I know I tried.

[Shaman]

I concentrate on riding the bike. Body positioning doesn't come naturally, when something works better for me, I try to repeat it. I see guys all the time with "good" body positioning and form that are slow as balls. They're wearing knee pucks out in a single track day and are rolling roadblocks for everyone in their group.

Mention it if ya want... but if you tell someone lapping 10 seconds a lap faster than you that their body position sucks, the result might be embarrassing.

[Franko!]

Mention it if ya want... but if you tell someone lapping 10 seconds a lap faster than you that their body position sucks, the result might be embarrassing.

If they are faster than me I feel that I have no right to say anything.

[Mr.Azim]

It's all on the approach. Introduce yourself and start up conversation..... don't just walk up to someone and tell them how to ride. Talk about your session and how you felt, ask about his/her experience and ask for advice (whether you accept it is up to you) and if THEY ask for advice in kind, then give it.

If you see a rider doing something that's potentially dangerous to them or yourself, I feel you have the right to tell them (again, it's all about "how" you do it). Just because someone is faster than you doesn't mean you don't have the right to say anything. If they did something that made you feel uneasy in your session, tell them or better yet.... tell one of the rack marshals and they'll be able to bring it up once they see it for themselves.

[caboose483]

If you look at the two fastest riders in Canada they have very different riding styles.

Brett likes to drag knee, toe, elbow, shoulder, hip and helmet through a corner but Jordan still keeps his upper body closer in line with the bike. There's more than one way to skin a cat.

[Panici]

I think it's a great thing to communicate with other riders after a session. Some people may not take criticism all that well but to agree with R1, you never stop learning.

...I'm all ears at the track and anyone willing to provide some suggestions, please do!

It's all on the approach. Introduce yourself and start up conversation..... don't just walk up to someone and tell them how to ride. Talk about your session and how you felt, ask about his/her experience

Well said guys.

[almostlivin]

I welcome input from anyone that is qualified to give it to me and I expect most riders at the track are the same. We are all there for improvement and fun.
Like stated before, start up a conversation and then tell me how I can improve. Please!

[Y2KR1]

If you look at the two fastest riders in Canada they have very different riding styles.

Brett likes to drag knee, toe, elbow, shoulder, hip and helmet through a corner but Jordan still keeps his upper body closer in line with the bike. There's more than one way to skin a cat.

I made the exact same comment referring to the same two "Fast Guys" to our students (Racer5 and SOAR Race License) this past weekend.

At a trackday the only time I say anything is if they ask or what they are doing look unsafe.