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Thread: Managing amateur track day risk

  1. #41

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    Re: Managing amateur track day risk

    Quote Originally Posted by kneedragger88 View Post
    As to waivers they are all standard Lloyds of London. We (all of the track/trackdays orgs) are through Lloyds. The waivers are supplied and they do check for signatures. SOAR also has a waiver that we use thats been lawyer approved. We have a long application to acquire liabilty insurance where they delve into our personal and operational background.
    The insurance is not cheap however in a legal sense it is mandatory. We are a numbered limited company and carry heavy insurance as I would imagine every trackday org does. This would be handed to Jones Brown and ultimately Lloyds to handle with their team of lawyers.
    Myself I am more concerned with the emotional state of the Pro6 team than the legal liability. The insurance company and their lawyers will deal with that.
    Agreed. And I'd include the marshalling crew and staff at Calabogie. No one goes to work for this.
    Spineless swines. Cemented minds.

  2. #42

    Re: Managing amateur track day risk

    Quote Originally Posted by turbodish View Post
    Back to the waiver - how many have actually read the waiver that they sign?
    I never read it, I just assume it says "I hereby bequeath all my worldy possessions to <insert track day organiser here>, or failing him <insert his friend's name here> should I fail to set a lap time better than <insert record lap time here>."

  3. #43
    toastman's Avatar
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    Re: Managing amateur track day risk

    I'm posting this for Chris:
    -------------------
    On behalf of the Essex family and myself


    My name is Chris "Crashburn" Washburn. I have been great friends with Calvin and his son and Calvins brothers for over 15 years now. Not only did i see the whole thing go down but we
    also planned to attend the event together, travel together, room together etc for this get away trip. I have been one of his closer friends for years now and have seen sides to him that he
    wouldn't share with anyone else.

    He was a straight shooter but a simple guy. He lead his life as the tough guy but friendly on the out side. A mans man. He was rough and tough on the outside but had a soft side that nobody
    was able to see because he wouldn't want to show weakness.
    Case in point .... we got together a few weeks back and sobbed about the passing of his best friend. His dog Tyson.

    For all the years that I've known him, there was only 3 things that he was completely devoted to. First and for most he was devoted to his son Colin. Second to Colin was his dog Tyson. The rest of his life was devoted to his love for motorcycles and riding them. He would tinker and fine tune his machine for hours and hours to make sure it was perfect. Spending countless hours researching information for every different angle and aspect of the bike. He would spend all of his time in the garage fine tuning his ride. He wanted to have the best machine that he could.

    I need to thank a number of people from that day and the days to follow and then i will tell a story of the time we had.


    THANK YOU ALL

    To Pro6: You guys run a great event each and every time that I've been. Also running some track days myself i understand all that goes into it and the details that many don't notice.
    I know there are countless efforts to make for the safest day possible. Sandi, Sheena, and all of the staff from pro6 were very supportive after the tragedy occurred. I thank you very much for
    your support that day and none of it went unnoticed. You are very professional people and i believe you to run a very safe day. I have other days booked and will be attending without hesitation.

    To all the flag marshals: Your job is taken for granted sometimes but please be reminded that myself and every other rider out there respect the service you provide. You are there for our total safety. You are the control of the track and no track day should be held without the professional service you provide. I thank you for your track control, response times and professionalism while dealing with this situation that happened.
    Also Bonnie at the track entrance for having a sharp eye and making sure that all equipment was properly worn before going out onto the track.

    EMS: Although non of us want to see you during the day (understandable) your sharp reaction and training are a necessity for all of the track day events. All of your efforts to bring Calvin back to life were awesome. With your skill and abilities i don't think that there was anything else you could do. I thank you for everything.

    Rescue: From top to bottom. All of the police, rescue workers, ambulance attendants, helicopter staff..... The efforts and response to my friend are greatly appreciated.

    Bogie Track: The woman from management was very supportive and helped me in the time of need. Your genuine concern is appreciated. Sorry for soaking your shirt in tears.

    Calvins and my friends at the track: Everyone was so helpful, joining together to deal with the situation at hand. Helping with support and anything that needed being taken care of.
    Thank you all that helped out including Dennis, Donald, Deborah, Phill, Debbie, Darryl. Also to all the other track day people that offered help and support.



    A STORY


    I was already booked into the Bogie event with some friends. Calvin wanted to come out to the event with me so we signed him up. As usual he spent a couple days going over the bike and equipment in preparation for our trip away.
    He was pumped up to get the bike out and have a great couple days doing what he loved to do.
    We loaded up all of the bikes, gear and supplies the night before and met up the next morning to leave.
    A long 7 hour drive we had talking mostly about bike the whole way.
    We stayed at the golf course that night and got a good sleep and rest for the day ahead.
    In the morning i think he was the first awake and had coffee brewing for the rest of us.
    We made our way to the track and got set up for the day. We had to sign the wavers for the track, register in with pro6, sound test the bikes and go through tech inspection before we could join the days riding.
    Calvin actually missed the first session of the day for our group. He was frustrated that he didn't get on the ball faster but wouldn't go until everything was perfect. The tires had to be up to temperature from the tire warmers and the tire pressure was adjusted just right.
    When the second session for our group came up, we promptly got ready and headed toward the track entrance. One by one Bonnie checked to ensure we had our wristbands, back protectors, proper gear. Making sure that we were properly zipped, buckled and ready to go.
    Once past her, we approached the control marshal for getting on the track. He held us for a short moment and signaled up to get moving when there was a safe space to do so.
    Calvin and I stayed close together in single file and took the first lap mild to get warmed up and settled in. As the laps progressed, so did the speeds. By the third lap we were running at about 90% and making laps.
    We rode off line in the straights to avoid being in the way to faster riders while we were ramping things up. Just after we went around turn three i noticed a pack of faster riders coming up from behind and i moved to the outside. Calvin followed me to the outside 12 inches of pavement to stay out of the way. One minute later, all hell broke loose.............

    I did witness the entire situation and how it went down.......... I don't think there is ANY need to finger point at all. Calvin was also a man to call a spade a spade!

    It's very simple. We all know the risks associated with what we do. We all know there is potential for crashes etc. It was a total fluke that this has happened and it's very sad that it did. However in the grand scheme of things, this it the safest enviorment for us to ride motorcycles.
    He was a R.A.C.E. series racer with more than enough experience. He rode motorcycles on the street and dirt bikes for as long as i can remember.


    99% of the time when there is a get off, we slide across the ground in our full gear, get up and then we are just ****** off at the damage to the bike. In some cases you brake a bone or
    rash a finger etc. This was a total fluke and the media should not blow this out of proportion. I am very ****** off at the uneducated way that the media is portraying this story.


    From Colins Family

    Thanks to everyone that helped in their efforts. It was greatly appreciated. If he could choose a place to die, i know it would have been at the track doing something that he loved.

    Every ones best wishes and help have been great.

    Thank you for all of your support in this time of need.



    In a neat personal touch from Colin his son: He's having his dads race number (162) cut out in vinyl and (Cal) in script cut out in vinyl for his dad coffin.





    From The Essex family and Friends


    Visitation is on Friday in Goderich and the funeral is on Saturday in Goderich.
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  4. #44

    Re: Managing amateur track day risk

    Moving over to let the people behind pass...? Arrrrghhh NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

    Not saying that's what caused the crash, but it very well could.
    Last edited by fastar1; 07-07-2011 at 04:05 PM.

  5. #45

    Re: Managing amateur track day risk

    Quote Originally Posted by fastar1 View Post
    Moving over to let the people behind pass...? Arrrrghhh NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
    Have to agree.....the faster guys will find their own way around.

    Toastman...thanks for posting.

  6. #46
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    Re: Managing amateur track day risk

    Very sad situation, my condolences to all friends and family members.

  7. #47
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    Re: Managing amateur track day risk

    Quote Originally Posted by fastar1 View Post
    Moving over to let the people behind pass...? Arrrrghhh NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

    Not saying that's what caused the crash, but it very well could.
    Quote Originally Posted by spinto View Post
    Have to agree.....the faster guys will find their own way around.
    Not the time or the place fellas. Seriously. Show some respect for someone that not only lost one of their best friends, but watched it all happen.

  8. #48

    Re: Managing amateur track day risk

    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyKell View Post
    Not the time or the place fellas. Seriously. Show some respect for someone that not only lost one of their best friends, but watched it all happen.
    The topic is "Managing amateur track day risk"...........Totally ON TOPIC.

  9. #49
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    Re: Managing amateur track day risk

    Quote Originally Posted by spinto View Post
    The topic is "Managing amateur track day risk"...........Totally ON TOPIC.
    And yet totally tactless.

  10. #50

    Re: Managing amateur track day risk

    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyKell View Post
    And yet totally tactless.
    The same posting is in the appropriate section as well here.

    If there is anyone that wants that information, regarding how to manage risk, and this threads ends the way you want it to, simply does not help anyone.

  11. #51
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    Re: Managing amateur track day risk

    I'm pretty sure this thread has covered most ways to mitigate amatuer track day risk. But keep in mind, these guys were no amateurs and this was a very freak accident. So piping in, not about mitigating track day risk, but how THEY shouldn't have moved over really serves no purpose.

    At the end of the day, we all need to be aware that sometimes things can go very very wrong and turn tragic.

  12. #52

    Re: Managing amateur track day risk

    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyKell View Post
    I'm pretty sure this thread has covered most ways to mitigate amatuer track day risk. But keep in mind, these guys were no amateurs and this was a very freak accident. So piping in, not about mitigating track day risk, but how THEY shouldn't have moved over really serves no purpose.

    At the end of the day, we all need to be aware that sometimes things can go very very wrong and turn tragic.
    I disagree. It wasn't until Toastman posted that we knew what had happened. The passing ROT was never explored or explained until now. Very relevant to anyone looking for insight on how to mitigate risk.

    We all know it was a real tragedy and is a serious loss. But leaving the purpose this thread to fall away without a key piece of information would be irresponsible.
    Last edited by spinto; 07-07-2011 at 05:41 PM.

  13. #53

    Re: Managing amateur track day risk

    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyKell View Post
    I'm pretty sure this thread has covered most ways to mitigate amatuer track day risk. But keep in mind, these guys were no amateurs and this was a very freak accident. So piping in, not about mitigating track day risk, but how THEY shouldn't have moved over really serves no purpose.

    At the end of the day, we all need to be aware that sometimes things can go very very wrong and turn tragic.
    Without knowing exactly what happened where i can't speculate on who did what that may have contributed to this accident..

    However, moving out of the way of faster riders is not the right way to do it. This has been discussed before... please don't ever move out of the way. The best thing you can do, the safest thing you can do is to ride like you're the only person on the track. If you ride in a predicable and consistent manner, the faster riders will get by you cleanly.

    If the topic being discusses is minimizing on-track risks then this particular point could not be any more on topic. Don't do anything to help riders behind you get past you, ride your own ride and let them figure it out. I've almost been in a few accidents at trackdays because a slower rider heard me behind them and thought they should get out of the way. If i have to wait a few corners to get by you, that's fine. Don't worry about it. I'm not out there running my own Superpole trying to set a lap record.

  14. #54
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    Re: Managing amateur track day risk

    ...

  15. #55

    Re: Managing amateur track day risk

    Quote Originally Posted by spinto View Post
    It was until Toastman posted that we knew what had happened.
    Just want to say, we still don't know what happened. I was merely taking the opportunity to point out a potential cause of the crash, one which also happens to be a pet peeve of mine.

  16. #56
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    Re: Managing amateur track day risk

    I just talked to Chris, and he not the best at wording things, nor is he wanting to deal with those that wish to make a bad situation worse.
    Realize that Calvin and Chris are both racers and very experienced track day riders and know the difference between exiting a corner and staying off to the side and moving over into someones path.

    He tried to explain to me that they knew that there were faster riders coming up behind before the corner and took a different line to stay to the side out of the way.
    It wasn't like they moved over in the last bit and cut someone off.
    The GP bikes that were there that lacked the top end speed did the same thing the next day.

    They exited the corner and stayed to the side and held their line. The accident happened in the straight nowhere near the entry to a corner.

    If you know Chris you will understand that his ability to put thoughts into words can lack from time to time.

    We can talk and debate this forever here and lay blame on the pack riding behind, blame the sun in your eyes, blame ....... but that won't help anything, nor will it bring a rider back.

    It was intended to be a thank you to those that helped in a bad situation, not create more problems.

    Have some heart to those that have lost loved ones.

    Donald
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  17. #57
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    Re: Managing amateur track day risk

    Quote Originally Posted by caboose483 View Post
    If i have to wait a few corners to get by you, that's fine. Don't worry about it. I'm not out there running my own Superpole trying to set a lap record.
    And that is what experienced and mature riders will do...

    Not related to this tragedy, but the this thread topic, I witnessed more than one situation when that didn't happen as expected. And especially in the beginner group (again not this case), I have seen at a number of different track days (Turn2, GWB, Pro6) faster riders failling to account for the actual pourpose of the beginner group: riders that may have minimal experience at the track, limited skills and unpredictable behaviour. Assume beginners will behave as beginners, and if you MUST ride in that group, act accordingly, especially if you posess the skills and experience to do so. It's not a race, it's a recreational event, and if I take the risk to crash and get injured I would like that to be my own fault, not be casued by a hothead.

  18. #58

    Re: Managing amateur track day risk

    Quote Originally Posted by toastman View Post
    I just talked to Chris, and he not the best at wording things, nor is he wanting to deal with those that wish to make a bad situation worse.
    Realize that Calvin and Chris are both racers and very experienced track day riders and know the difference between exiting a corner and staying off to the side and moving over into someones path.

    He tried to explain to me that they knew that there were faster riders coming up behind before the corner and took a different line to stay to the side out of the way.
    It wasn't like they moved over in the last bit and cut someone off.
    The GP bikes that were there that lacked the top end speed did the same thing the next day.

    They exited the corner and stayed to the side and held their line. The accident happened in the straight nowhere near the entry to a corner.

    If you know Chris you will understand that his ability to put thoughts into words can lack from time to time.

    We can talk and debate this forever here and lay blame on the pack riding behind, blame the sun in your eyes, blame ....... but that won't help anything, nor will it bring a rider back.

    It was intended to be a thank you to those that helped in a bad situation, not create more problems.

    Have some heart to those that have lost loved ones.

    Donald
    I don't believe that anyone is trying to make a bad situation worse, I don't believe anyone is trying to blame anyone for anything. This thread wasn't created to discuss the events at Calabogie on Monday either so I don't think the introduction of those events into this discussion means we should have to tip toe around it.

    You can call me a cold hearted ***.. I don't care and I'm sure Chris has nothing nice to say about me.. I don't care about that either. I lost a friend too on Monday too so be mindful of that when you read what i write. A tragedy isn't necessarily a waste if we can learn something from it. With the ever growing popularity of trackdays and racing there are more and more noobs entering the sport. I think it's worthwhile to have a discussion like this for their benefit. If Cal's passing helps remind us all that the dangers of this sport are real and keeps us all a little safer then i would consider that a silver lining. It's nowhere near an even trade but i think it's something meaningful.

    Take that for what it's worth.

  19. #59
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    Re: Managing amateur track day risk

    That's what I was getting at, but you put it more succinctly.
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  20. #60

    Re: Managing amateur track day risk

    I am also concerned with high closing speeds whether the bikes are slow or the riders are taking it easy. Sometimes you can pop out of the draft not expecting slow traffic to be there.

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