Unreasonable Smoke

[raginduck]

To sue the police one has to prove malace, criminal intent or other major no-no. They are allowed all the oopsies they want.

I am aware of what suing the police and/or crown entails.... from experiences. Civil is not criminal. "Beyond reasonable doubt" doesn't matter in civil. Sitting in front of a jury of citizens who are becoming less and less supportive of the police and their antics these days.....

[Rob MacLennan]

so on a 2 stroke repacking your canister will result the amount of smoke? (giggle) I have 3 spare rz motors that smoke bad.....i now know what to do!

Well clean packing will give somewhere for residue to go, slightly reducing the amount of smoke, but more importantly IT WOULD SHOW THAT HE WAS DOING PROPER MAINTENANCE.

[caboose483]

Capital letters is yelling. Easy there big fella!

[Rob MacLennan]

Capital letters is yelling. Easy there big fella!

Emphasis. People shouldn't ridicule, if they are only assuming that they know the reason why a question was asked.

[nobbie48]

I am aware of what suing the police and/or crown entails.... from experiences. Civil is not criminal. "Beyond reasonable doubt" doesn't matter in civil. Sitting in front of a jury of citizens who are becoming less and less supportive of the police and their antics these days.....

I personally know a cop who had a crash with his cruiser while on duty. He was being charged at the demand of the other driver and it was a toss up whether the charge was careless or dangerous. If it was dangerous, a criminal charge, apparently the police could not pay the legal fees. It eventually went his way and justly so, knowing the circumstances of that incident.

If a cop lies about a fact, to me it is fraud and he should be criminally charged to face the music on his own dime. Being dumb isn't a crime so they are freebies.

[raginduck]

I personally know a cop who had a crash with his cruiser while on duty. He was being charged at the demand of the other driver and it was a toss up whether the charge was careless or dangerous. If it was dangerous, a criminal charge, apparently the police could not pay the legal fees. It eventually went his way and justly so, knowing the circumstances of that incident.

If a cop lies about a fact, to me it is fraud and he should be criminally charged to face the music on his own dime. Being dumb isn't a crime so they are freebies.

Again.... criminal and civil.

The cop you personally know must have screwed up somehow to bring on any charges what so ever. Not to mention that I am pretty sure that you "knowing the circumstances" means that you heard one side of the story. What the Op desribed has nothing to do with being dumb or ignorant. Please note that I am not saying he should fight the excessive smoke ticket and then sue if he wins.... I was commenting on the threat of mis-using the H.172 law to intimidate the OP.
A cop's word matters.... Having words/comment such as "This court will not accept any evidence giving by this particuar officer as they have proven themselves to be a liar on multiple occasions throughout this ordeal" during a trial.... can be very damaging to their career. That particular officer was no longer a cop shortly after... as a result of the outcome(s) of that case.

[Delboy]

Well. Had my day in court.

Came all prepared with written confirmation from a certified mechanic that the bike was well within the OEM spec and was well tuned. I had a bunch of documentation on how 2 strokes actually work, videos on my iPad of other 2 strokes smoking, etc…..

She did her thing and then it was my turn. I presented the mechanic report and the JP or whatever asked me what kind of bike it was and I told him. He asked me if it was the water cooled one or the air cooled one. I told him water cooled. The charges were dismissed.

I suspect he may have owned one back in the day

[Rob MacLennan]

Well. Had my day in court.

Came all prepared with written confirmation from a certified mechanic that the bike was well within the OEM spec and was well tuned. I had a bunch of documentation on how 2 strokes actually work, videos on my iPad of other 2 strokes smoking, etc…..

She did her thing and then it was my turn. I presented the mechanic report and the JP or whatever asked me what kind of bike it was and I told him. He asked me if it was the water cooled one or the air cooled one. I told him water cooled. The charges were dismissed.

I suspect he may have owned one back in the day

Pity that it had to go to court, in the first place. When I had my K75 BMW I was somewhat surprised to never have received a similar ticket, given the way that oil pooled in the cylinders when it was on the side stand.

[mxs]

He asked me if it was the water cooled one or the air cooled one. I told him water cooled.

What has cooling to do with smoking???? I thought it's the given number of strokes causing the smoking .... I guess you learn every day ... LOL

[Hachi-Roku]

What has cooling to do with smoking???? I thought it's the given number of strokes causing the smoking .... I guess you learn every day ... LOL

It has nothing to do with it
It was simply a question from the JP indicating to the OP he knows Bikes and is familiar with the Model in question

OP
I hope when you left the court room you took the opportunity to rip the cop a new one

[AGAVE]

Good for you man!

I wonder how many of our tax dollars were spent due to his pure stupidity?

[OpenGambit]

Well. Had my day in court.

Came all prepared with written confirmation from a certified mechanic that the bike was well within the OEM spec and was well tuned. I had a bunch of documentation on how 2 strokes actually work, videos on my iPad of other 2 strokes smoking, etc…..

She did her thing and then it was my turn. I presented the mechanic report and the JP or whatever asked me what kind of bike it was and I told him. He asked me if it was the water cooled one or the air cooled one. I told him water cooled. The charges were dismissed.

I suspect he may have owned one back in the day

I would have subpeonaed the other cop. Asked for an adjournment. If they granted it I would have done it again, while never calling him to the stand.

[Flywheel]

I would have subpeonaed the other cop. Asked for an adjournment. If they granted it I would have done it again, while never calling him to the stand.

Wouldn't that be sinking to the level of the constabulary? Rock on, Delboy. Still daydreaming about an RD350 myself, however impractical.

[OpenGambit]

I think of it as beating them at their own game.

[Brian P]

I would have subpeonaed the other cop. Asked for an adjournment. If they granted it I would have done it again, while never calling him to the stand.

For "the rest of us" ... What's the purpose of doing this?

[OpenGambit]

For "the rest of us" ... What's the purpose of doing this?

There really isn't one, its just spite. If someone is going to waste my time I am going to waste their's right back. I am not gonna let a guy get away with writing me a ticket and having a day off while I am sitting in court stewing about it. If I have to sit there like a jackass, he is doing it with me.
In my view, the only "punishment" i can really dish back out against a cop for writing me an unjustified ticket is to either embarass them or waste their time, since malicious prosecution is really not going to happen. Maybe I am dreaming but I think that if a cop wasted a whole day or was embarassed every time they wrote a ticket that was garbage, they would do it less often.
But its a personal pet peeve of mine when cops try to take advantage of the fact that regular people dont know the law well enough to argue with them roadside. A cop telling you that they are going to tow you because you argued with them is just ridiculous..

So I what I can realistically do which is...

a. explain it to the prosecutor and let him handle it
b. waste their time
c. embarass them on the stand, or a combination of the above.

[JohnnyP636]

There really isn't one, its just spite. If someone is going to waste my time I am going to waste their's right back. I am not gonna let a guy get away with writing me a ticket and having a day off while I am sitting in court stewing about it. If I have to sit there like a jackass, he is doing it with me.
In my view, the only "punishment" i can really dish back out against a cop for writing me an unjustified ticket is to either embarass them or waste their time, since malicious prosecution is really not going to happen. Maybe I am dreaming but I think that if a cop wasted a whole day or was embarassed every time they wrote a ticket that was garbage, they would do it less often.
But its a personal pet peeve of mine when cops try to take advantage of the fact that regular people dont know the law well enough to argue with them roadside. A cop telling you that they are going to tow you because you argued with them is just ridiculous..

So I what I can realistically do which is...

a. explain it to the prosecutor and let him handle it
b. waste their time
c. embarass them on the stand, or a combination of the above.

Spite? Hes getting paid, and your most likely taking time off work...If he already has a a lot of court hours, or the case is on a day he doesn't have a shift he makes even more $$$

Im not sure if its changed but Toronto police used to have a minimum charge of 3 or 4 hours for court appearance, and when cases get dismissed like this one they love it because they show up for 20min and still get paid for 3 or 4 hours. Thats why they always tell you take it to court

You guys think they write a lot of stupid tickets because its fun! More tickets means more court time, and more court time means more money...

[OpenGambit]

Spite? Hes getting paid, and your most likely taking time off work...If he already has a a lot of court hours, or the case is on a day he doesn't have a shift he makes even more $$$

Im not sure if its changed but Toronto police used to have a minimum charge of 3 or 4 hours for court appearance, and when cases get dismissed like this one they love it because they show up for 20min and still get paid for 3 or 4 hours. Thats why they always tell you take it to court

You guys think they write a lot of stupid tickets because its fun! More tickets means more court time, and more court time means more money...

You are confusing the person being subpeonaed and the person writing the ticket.

[JohnnyP636]

You are confusing being subpeonaed and the person writing the ticket.

Am I? This is what u said
"In my view, the only "punishment" i can really dish back out against a cop for writing me an unjustified ticket is to either embarass them or waste their time, since malicious prosecution is really not going to happen"

The cop writing you a ticket gets paid to go to court if you decide to take it to court, so your not punishing anyone

[OpenGambit]

Am I? This is what u said
"In my view, the only "punishment" i can really dish back out against a cop for writing me an unjustified ticket is to either embarass them or waste their time, since malicious prosecution is really not going to happen"

The cop writing you a ticket gets paid to go to court if you decide to take it to court, so your not punishing anyone

The cop that writes me the ticket gets embarassed, the subpeonaed witness gets their time wasted. That should be clear if you read the entire series of posts.

Either way its win win for me, I get to go to court once in a while cause its just fun, I make someone's ******** public record, and I sometimes get to hear a JP give the officer some **** back.
+ its not like I lose a day off or any pay.