Unreasonable Smoke

[Delboy]

I've got a bit of a fetish for old Yamaha RD's and RZ's and actually bought my first RD400 back in 1979.

So I nipped down to Timmies tonight with a few friends and was riding an old RD350LC.

There was a bunch of cops there when I came out, so I started up the bike on the choke as it had been sitting for about 40 mins and immediately got slapped with a ticket for Unreasonable Smoke - Hello, its a ****ing 2 Stroke. I'm also running it ~40:1 on premix so the amount of smoke is really minimal

Anyway, this woman looked about 19 and I tried to explain to her that it was a 2 stroke and how 2 strokes work.

However she went on to explain that she was an experienced traffic officer and that in her expert opinion the bike was defective and contravened HTA Section, Blah, Blah, Blah.........

A male cop came over and advised me to take the ticket and I could be in real serious trouble for arguing with a police officer, up to and including having by license suspended for 7 days and Bike towed. He was very threatening, clearly trying to impress her.

WTF. It felt like a shakedown by LE in some third world country.

I think it will be pretty easy to fight but I now have to spend my time and money going to court. This is crazy

Clearly this woman is utterly incompetent. Is there anyway to file a complaint against her? I did call the local station and spoke to a Sargent but she said ultimately it was the officers call and she trusts her judgement. It just pisses me off that I have been riding these things for over 30 years and this is the first time I've had to deal with an incompetent clown like this.

[matthew]

what is the HTA section that you got charged with?

[AGAVE]

Not surprising, uneducated rookie, plus they just have a hate on for bikes.
And i see they decided to hit up the local meeting spots to whip up some bogus tickets, how clever....

Now you get to waste your time and our tax dollars to fight a stupid ticket that never should have been written, typical Ontario efficiency.

[nobbie48]

I have a vintage wooden boat with a matching vintage outboard that runs 20:1 oil mix. Ahhhh the good old days of mosquito fogging. I worry about the same thing when I run the boat.

Bikes don't have clean air tests so this is a case of the officers opinion as to what is an unreasonable amount of smoke. Two stroke motors can load up on oil at idle and let it rip when you open the throttle.

If you had a mechanic, licenced by the province, certify that the bike meets the manufacturer's tolerances it would be the court arguement of the cop versus an provincially accredited expert. Result ???

Were you on private property and would that make a difference?

Is the charge considered a moving violation that would affect insurance rates?

Also bothering me is the second cop threatening a tow and licence suspension. I understand that the police can pull the plate off a vehicle they feel is unfit or a hazard and the vehicle either has to be towed or left on private property. I didn't think a mechanical defect was cause for a licence suspension. If I am correct the bullying just makes the cop look bad.

Re explaining how technical things work. If the person is tuned out you are wasting your time. Everyone in a mechanical line of work gets the deer in a headlight stare from people that are clueless and want to stay that way. All they know is that they aren't happy about "something" and "someone" has to fix it and make them happy.

[Rob MacLennan]

There's a reason why 2-strokes haven't been sold in Canada, for decades, but that doesn't mean normal operation of the vehicle should result in a ticket. The new crop of officers simply have no experience with them. Hell, many of them weren't born when the last legal 2-strokes hit the road.

Quick question: When was the last time that you had your canister repacked?

[raginduck]

Should have let them take it under H.172....

I'd like to see them explain in court why they charged someone with H.172..... WHILE parked! Of course they probably would have charged you with resisting... and then lied to cover it.

[GP_RZ]

so on a 2 stroke repacking your canister will result the amount of smoke? (giggle) I have 3 spare rz motors that smoke bad.....i now know what to do!

There's a reason why 2-strokes haven't been sold in Canada, for decades, but that doesn't mean normal operation of the vehicle should result in a ticket. The new crop of officers simply have no experience with them. Hell, many of them weren't born when the last legal 2-strokes hit the road.

Quick question: When was the last time that you had your canister repacked?

[geoff-9]

what is the HTA section that you got charged with?

possibly s.75(1) ??

75. (1) Every motor vehicle or motor assisted bicycle shall be equipped with a muffler in good working order and in constant operation to prevent excessive or unusual noise and excessive smoke, and no person shall use a muffler cut-out, straight exhaust, gutted muffler, hollywood muffler, by-pass or similar device upon a motor vehicle or motor assisted bicycle. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 75 (1). Same
(2) Subsection (1) does not apply to,
(a) a motor-assisted bicycle with an attached motor that is driven entirely by electricity; or
(b) a motor vehicle that is driven entirely by electricity. 2009, c. 5, s. 31.
Fumes from engine
(3) The engine and power mechanism of every motor vehicle shall be so equipped and adjusted as to prevent the escape of excessive fumes or smoke. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 75 (3).

[Delboy]

Well. Had my day in court.

Came all prepared with written confirmation from a certified mechanic that the bike was well within the OEM spec and was well tuned. I had a bunch of documentation on how 2 strokes actually work, videos on my iPad of other 2 strokes smoking, etc…..

She did her thing and then it was my turn. I presented the mechanic report and the JP or whatever asked me what kind of bike it was and I told him. He asked me if it was the water cooled one or the air cooled one. I told him water cooled. The charges were dismissed.

I suspect he may have owned one back in the day

[Rob MacLennan]

Well. Had my day in court.

Came all prepared with written confirmation from a certified mechanic that the bike was well within the OEM spec and was well tuned. I had a bunch of documentation on how 2 strokes actually work, videos on my iPad of other 2 strokes smoking, etc…..

She did her thing and then it was my turn. I presented the mechanic report and the JP or whatever asked me what kind of bike it was and I told him. He asked me if it was the water cooled one or the air cooled one. I told him water cooled. The charges were dismissed.

I suspect he may have owned one back in the day

Pity that it had to go to court, in the first place. When I had my K75 BMW I was somewhat surprised to never have received a similar ticket, given the way that oil pooled in the cylinders when it was on the side stand.

[mxs]

He asked me if it was the water cooled one or the air cooled one. I told him water cooled.

What has cooling to do with smoking???? I thought it's the given number of strokes causing the smoking .... I guess you learn every day ... LOL

[Hachi-Roku]

What has cooling to do with smoking???? I thought it's the given number of strokes causing the smoking .... I guess you learn every day ... LOL

It has nothing to do with it
It was simply a question from the JP indicating to the OP he knows Bikes and is familiar with the Model in question

OP
I hope when you left the court room you took the opportunity to rip the cop a new one

[AGAVE]

Good for you man!

I wonder how many of our tax dollars were spent due to his pure stupidity?

[mxs]

It has nothing to do with it
It was simply a question from the JP indicating to the OP he knows Bikes and is familiar with the Model in question

... to me he demonstrated the opposite. The ticket was for excessive smoking, not excessive heating ...

[Brian P]

Those of us who are not lawyers and are not familiar with the intimate details of the legal system are missing some critical detail (which I don't know what is).

Cop wrote the smoke ticket, cop IS the witness, you take it to court (and request that the cop be present) but don't call him up (he's in court and getting paid anyway), you get it postponed etc but the cop/witness (one and the same person) still has to show up and is still getting paid, etc.

The cop IS the ticket-writer and IS the witness. If he has to show up in court then he's getting paid and doesn't care if he has to do nothing.

I get the point about the cop possibly getting embarrassed if I took the trouble of paying someone to do an inspection of my vehicle and come to court and give an explanation of how a two-stroke engine works but given that (A) this cost me money and (B) the cop is getting paid to be in court anyway and (C) the time for ME to be in court is costing ME money, I don't get it.

What is the critical piece of this that I (and JohnnyP) am missing?

[Hachi-Roku]

... to me he demonstrated the opposite. The ticket was for excessive smoking, not excessive heating ...

The heating question is MOOT since they both Smoke on start up and WOT

again *the JP indicating to the OP he knows Bikes and is familiar with the Model in question

Either answer would have resulted in a thrown out ticket

[OpenGambit]

Well. Had my day in court.

Came all prepared with written confirmation from a certified mechanic that the bike was well within the OEM spec and was well tuned. I had a bunch of documentation on how 2 strokes actually work, videos on my iPad of other 2 strokes smoking, etc…..

She did her thing and then it was my turn. I presented the mechanic report and the JP or whatever asked me what kind of bike it was and I told him. He asked me if it was the water cooled one or the air cooled one. I told him water cooled. The charges were dismissed.

I suspect he may have owned one back in the day

I would have subpeonaed the other cop. Asked for an adjournment. If they granted it I would have done it again, while never calling him to the stand.

[Flywheel]

I would have subpeonaed the other cop. Asked for an adjournment. If they granted it I would have done it again, while never calling him to the stand.

Wouldn't that be sinking to the level of the constabulary? Rock on, Delboy. Still daydreaming about an RD350 myself, however impractical.

[OpenGambit]

I think of it as beating them at their own game.

[Brian P]

I would have subpeonaed the other cop. Asked for an adjournment. If they granted it I would have done it again, while never calling him to the stand.

For "the rest of us" ... What's the purpose of doing this?