Confused...

[dr_sarcasm]

...so, a member on this board posts a thread, in which they clearly state that they've broken the law (speeding, 180 in a 60...) and they want to know HOW they can get around the charge...

A few of us let the OP know that not only is the request galling (given that they did this in a residential area), but we let him/her know how we feel (nothing too outrageous i.e. "no sympathy from me", "hope you get fleeced in court", etc. etc.).

Moderators then swoop in to remove all the "offending" posts, but leave the original thread intact? So, this site is PC to almost extreme levels (bordering on the fanatical, actually), but based on the latest move, condones breaking the law (how else would you interpret leaving up the original thread with only the "Awww, man, bummer, fight the man" posts).

Interesting and confusing all in one...

[jay-d]

I'm with you!

I also think it's to keep the peace. It's easy to call out someone, as angry as you may be and I think the best way to go is to avoid posting in those threads.

I think my post got deleted.. lol

Edit:

Upon reflecting.. I've been guilty of this as well. I got caught going 118 in an 80, not as severe but where do you draw the line right? I ended up fighting it in court and won with a trial and posted my results for anyone else that might want to do the same thing so that doesn't make me any better.. damn.. I'm an ***** hat

[invictus43]

If it was in the traffic/court section, I believe the purpose it to provide info, not flame individuals. I'm sure you can make a thread here or in romper room where you can say "people who do 180 in a residential area area ********" and it won't get deleted..

[TorontoBoy]

LOL Yes, people break the law and ask how to fight the charge. This is one of the purposes of this forum. I do not believe that the forum condones breaking the law, but to educate riders as to their legal rights and possibilities. We are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, or so it goes. The legal system is far from fair, and police have the advantage. As a collective group of riders it is to our advantage to strategize together.

Maybe the offending posts broke some of the posting rules, and thus were removed?. I really do not believe that this forum nor the mods are extremely PC. Female riders, original posters, near anyone can get slammed on this forum.

[CrazyKell]

It's not that this forum is PC.....it's that it's a sliding scale of who's allowed to break the rules, insult people, etc.

But like someone said, in this case It hink it's that it was posted in the appropriate forum. Even if the poster deserves a dunce cap and a time out in the corner, he at least got that part right and the purpose of that forum is for information, not pointing out what a dunce he is.

[jc100]

I get how the forum is useful if you are innocent of the charges or if the punishment is excessively harsh for a misdemeanor or for genuine mistakes. I can't see how it's a good thing to mentor people who act like dicks to get away from the very charges that are supposed to act as a deterrant for this behaviour in the first place though.

[Griffin]

From my observations since I've been here, this forum has some of the most harsh responses to posters that I've seen on motorcycle forums. I think the mods are trying to deal with that and I applaud them. When someone posts to ask a question about something, having a bunch of people post about how stupid they are isn't very helpful. Also, it is likely to ensure that the original poster is not likely to ever post a question again.

In this instance the OP asked for advice about a stunting charge. Telling him he shouldn't have broken the law isn't particularly helpful and is more than a bit late. Similar to people posting about accidents that were their own fault and then being told they shouldn't have done the dumb thing that caused their accident as opposed to suggestions on how to avoid that in future. It ain't helping. Whether you think the OP in that thread was being a wad for doing 200 in a 60 isn't the point or purpose of the post. Although, on that note, there are many roads I know of that are posted as 60 that I wouldn't hesitate to ride at far beyond that (if, hypothetically speaking, I ever exceeded the speed limit).

As someone above noted, if you want to discuss whether it's okay for motorcyclists to exceed the speed limit create your own post to discuss it. Don't lecture someone that's looking for advice. Seems reasonable to me.

[Griffin]

I get how the forum is useful if you are innocent of the charges or if the punishment is excessively harsh for a misdemeanor or for genuine mistakes. I can't see how it's a good thing to mentor people who act like dicks to get away from the very charges that are supposed to act as a deterrant for this behaviour in the first place though.

So, who is going to be the arbiter of what is "innocence" and what is "excessive" punishment? Some guy on the secondary road I was riding on yesterday got all bent out of shape because I passed him on an open stretch of road with good sight lines and no intersecting roads. I'm sure that if I had gotten a ticket for that (and hypethetically speaking it is possible that when passing and trying to limit my exposure of being on the wrong side of the road and with traffic moving at +10 that I could easily be in excess of +50 within oh, about .03 of a second of twisting the throttle notwithstanding that I was back to riding about +15 within about 3 seconds) he would think I deserved it and wouldn't want me to benefit from advice.

If the guy was riding like a dickwad and the cops have evidence of that then let them prove it in court. But why deny someone the benefit of due process and good advice just because you don't agree with their actions as you perceive the situation form a handful of words posted here?

[skip]

From what I have seen it depends on the forum how much is tolerated. The New Rider section no flaming is tolerated. Legal and Tech sections almost none is tolerated. General forum you will take you lumps. Romper Room....yeah.

[dr_sarcasm]

As someone above noted, if you want to discuss whether it's okay for motorcyclists to exceed the speed limit create your own post to discuss it. Don't lecture someone that's looking for advice. Seems reasonable to me.

Allow me a rebuttal:

1. It's silly to think you can get sound legal advice from an Internet forum not devoted to legal pursuits - the OP already stated that they have legal counsel, what benefits does a forum (with no legal orientation, of course) have to offer? Heck, a brief search on the Internet (and by brief, I mean 5secs here), turns up better venues for that sort of discussion: http://forum.freeadvice.com/ and/or http://www.legalline.ca/

2. The OP states they are doing THREE times the speed limit, in a residential area - you seem to suggest that for those of us who are parents, we should be neutral with our responses and respond in an unbiased manner, even giving the OP tips, suggestions and even answers as to how to beat the charge so he can do it again (and thereby run the risk of endangering human lives one more time)?;

Given the above, it's a curious thing as to why the mods would allow the OP to be babied, and extend the same privileges to someone who has an obvious (and callous) disregard for stated speed limits (sorry, but no one in their right mind attains those type of speeds on residential roads - 10, 20, 30 hell even 40 over, blame it on excitement, but 120 over??) as say someone who made an obvious mistake and was a touch throttle happy.

Seems reasonable to me.

[CrazyKell]

From my observations since I've been here, this forum has some of the most harsh responses to posters that I've seen on motorcycle forums. I think the mods are trying to deal with that and I applaud them. When someone posts to ask a question about something, having a bunch of people post about how stupid they are isn't very helpful. Also, it is likely to ensure that the original poster is not likely to ever post a question again.

I've found that there are people on this forum who go out of their way to be rude and childish. And I wonder if they act that way in person.

Like any forum though, it's based on the membership. I've been on other forums that have been fine, then new members join and turn it into a chit show. It goes in cycles.

[smp]

This is a family site.

[Paul]

If it was in the traffic/court section, I believe the purpose it to provide info, not flame individuals. I'm sure you can make a thread here or in romper room where you can say "people who do 180 in a residential area area ********" and it won't get deleted..

Bingo...Thanks Invictus43

Dr_Sarcasm....it's all about appropriate topics being in the appropriate forums. I'll move this topic to the "Support" forum (See forum description on main page)

General Motorcycle Discussion. Got beefs about the site? Don't post here!!

[dr_sarcasm]

Bingo...Thanks Invictus43

Dr_Sarcasm....it's all about appropriate topics being in the appropriate forums. I'll move this topic to the "Support" forum (See forum description on main page)

Paul,

I put it in 'General' as this wasn't really a "beef" per se, but moreso a question as to what is deemed acceptable and non-acceptable (hence I figured this was the best place for a conversation on the matter).

[jc100]

So, who is going to be the arbiter of what is "innocence" and what is "excessive" punishment? Some guy on the secondary road I was riding on yesterday got all bent out of shape because I passed him on an open stretch of road with good sight lines and no intersecting roads. I'm sure that if I had gotten a ticket for that (and hypethetically speaking it is possible that when passing and trying to limit my exposure of being on the wrong side of the road and with traffic moving at +10 that I could easily be in excess of +50 within oh, about .03 of a second of twisting the throttle notwithstanding that I was back to riding about +15 within about 3 seconds) he would think I deserved it and wouldn't want me to benefit from advice.

If the guy was riding like a dickwad and the cops have evidence of that then let them prove it in court. But why deny someone the benefit of due process and good advice just because you don't agree with their actions as you perceive the situation form a handful of words posted here?

You can be your own arbiter in the cases I'm talking about. Pretty sure most people know when they are guilty.

[Rob MacLennan]

dr_sarcasm, the primary reason that the Law and HTA forum exists, is so that people can request assistance in handling their legal issues. A side reason is for the discussion of relevant laws, that affect the community. If people post for assistance in that forum, only to be lambasted over something that they've already been 'corrected' over by the proper authorities, then the forum serves no purpose but to create human punching bags for the people who want to air their anger. Pointless.

*EDIT* By the way, that message is in a sticky post at the top of that forum, entitled...

Things to Assume, When Posting Here

Oddly, no one seems to bother to read it, before posting.

[DemonPig]

I like reading through those HTA offences. Even if I don't agree with what the OP is doing/thinking, it provides me with more understanding of how the police and courts work and react. Sometimes very unique cases are posted and it's just interesting to see what the law is and how it affects are daily lives.

Lecturing is what too many people seem to be set on.

[dr_sarcasm]

Hello Rob,

Thank you for the links, which I have read by the way, prior to my posting on these forums (I lurk for a few months prior to becoming an active member, something I've been doing since the early BBS days).

The point of my post is that the OP has a blatant disregard for the law - it wasn't an accident, it wasn't a lapse in judgement, nor was it some mid-life crisis. I would have thought (erroneously, obviously), that this forum would distinguish between a mistake and obvious recklessness that puts the lives of others at risk, and insure that others don't follow in those footsteps (yup, through ridicule if necessary - pretty much the defacto standard on any other vehicle related forum).

Regrettably, what I'm gathering here is that we're to extend the same rights and polite manners to any Tom, Dick and Harry, no matter how ridiculously in the wrong they are, and to treat everyone with the same proverbial "kid gloves". So, you mess up, come to the GTA forums, you'll get legal advice on everything including how to kick the neighbour's pets and get away with it...

Odd, I didn't think GTA was a form of moral church where you can come confess your sins and have no repercussions once your session here was completed.

Anyhow, as noted to another moderator, these are your forums, your rules - so long as I choose to be a contributor here, guess I'll have to abide by them...

[dr_sarcasm]

Lecturing is what too many people seem to be set on.

You're right, we should extend to them every bit of courtesy and have them squeeze every bit of knowledge from us, no matter how incredibly asinine their actions were, so they can do it again and get away with it (fortified by the knowledge that they can run back to these forums and find a loophole in order to avoid the consequences).

Tell you what, you give them the way out, I'll stick to lecturing hoping their subsequent actions don't get innocent bystanders killed.

[Rob MacLennan]

Hello Rob,

Thank you for the links, which I have read by the way, prior to my posting on these forums (I lurk for a few months prior to becoming an active member, something I've been doing since the early BBS days).

The point of my post is that the OP has a blatant disregard for the law - it wasn't an accident, it wasn't a lapse in judgement, nor was it some mid-life crisis. I would have thought (erroneously, obviously), that this forum would distinguish between a mistake and obvious recklessness that puts the lives of others at risk, and insure that others don't follow in those footsteps (yup, through ridicule if necessary - pretty much the defacto standard on any other vehicle related forum).

Regrettably, what I'm gathering here is that we're to extend the same rights and polite manners to any Tom, Dick and Harry, no matter how ridiculously in the wrong they are, and to treat everyone with the same proverbial "kid gloves". So, you mess up, come to the GTA forums, you'll get legal advice on everything including how to kick the neighbour's pets and get away with it...

Odd, I didn't think GTA was a form of moral church where you can come confess your sins and have no repercussions once your session here was completed.

Anyhow, as noted to another moderator, these are your forums, your rules - so long as I choose to be a contributor here, guess I'll have to abide by them...

When you refer to a "moral church", that's exactly what those specific notes try to avoid. It isn't about 'sins' nor is it about 'punishment', from peers or otherwise. It's about navigating the legal system. Posters aren't granted 'absolution for their sins', nor are they offered-up so that other posters can make their own moral judgments. It's about information, pure and simple.

Do you not think that there are times, in which I would like to call someone an irresponsible idiot, or the like? All that would do, is degrade the forum to uselessness. If people think that they are going to get tons of abuse, just by asking for help, then they won't post at all. As I said before: Useless. At that point you might as well just pull that sub-forum down completely.

You're right, we should extend to them every bit of courtesy and have them squeeze every bit of knowledge from us, no matter how incredibly asinine their actions were, so they can do it again and get away with it (fortified by the knowledge that they can run back to these forums and find a loophole in order to avoid the consequences).

Tell you what, you give them the way out, I'll stick to lecturing hoping their subsequent actions don't get innocent bystanders killed.

Then I'm sorry to say that your posts will not last long. Nor will you. Flaming other members results in infractions, which add up to bans.