Reply With QuoteNo form or application to the tribunal is required to tow an unauthorized vehicle off the property.Originally Posted by twinn
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It all depends on you and your relationship with the landlord.
I would just leave it there, its hard to find good tenants now a days with the glut of condos for rent in Toronto. Is she really going to lose a tenant over something stupid like that?
That said, it can work both ways, you can call here everyday if you want for a slow leak or bad toilet, nosey exhaust fan etc.. and she has to have it looked at within 24 hours.
it all seems pretty petty to me. Really look into the tribunal, tenants have crazy rights in Ontario, almost to the point were I dont know why people even want to be landlords.
Even if she wants to terminate the lease and you dont agree, you call the tribunal, she will have to pay $100-$200 to file applications and then wait a few months for a hearing, so its not as simple as Turbo makes it out to be and he knows it.
No form or application to the tribunal is required to tow an unauthorized vehicle off the property.
That is true, but someone has to pay for the tow. In my experience, condo corps rarely if ever tow vehicles off property until they have exhausted every means possible.
The owner of the vehicle could easily go to small claims court, file a motion and bring that with them to the tow yard and they would have to release the vehicle. Furthermore, if there is a ticket involved, the owner of the car can also challenge that ticket in court and if found not guilty (very likely that by law officer will not show to court unless it is a city one).
Highly unlikely that a towing company is going to tow a vehicle off private property without first being paid to do so. As its time and money and paper work to even get the car marked as abonded and sold at auction or for scrap. And if the landlord has already paid for the tow, then they have to release the car as they no gorunds to keep it.
Really, with the law very much in favour of tenants in Ontario, that one tow could end up costing the landlord much much more in terms of $$. I wont even get into the human rights commission and landlord tenant situations.
Just to add, i have had my vehicle towed twice from private property. Both times it was at an impark lot, the machine was not working and after I deposited my money, failed to give me a ticket. I called the number on machine, spoke with impark, was given various ref #'s that i recorded and talked to a few diff people, whose names i also recorded. Went back to my car and it was gone. Spoke with the building manager, not only was my car released, my cab to the impound lot was also paid for and the second time it happened, he even brought me lunch. Both tickets I received were also cancelled.
Apparently, I was not the only person whose car was towed but the only person who got reimbured because I made a record of everything and actually called impark, not too long after that, the machine was replaced.
I've seen this happen several times at a couple of condos I have dealings with, and I've sat on a condo board that has ordered such tows on several occasions. It's very easy and totally painless for the condo.
Most condo and apartments contract their parking control out to private security and parking control companies that are licensed to issue official city bylaw tickets. If the vehicle is on a given condo's tow list, the next step after issuing the ticket is to contact city bylaw officers to come and take custody of the vehicle and to supervise the tow to the designated city impound lot. No advance payment to the tow truck driver is required because the vehicle is being towed under city bylaw provisions and under the aegis of city bylaw officers. The vehicle does not get released until all tow fees and impound charges are paid.
Even if the ticket is later contested and tossed out, there is no recourse to recover tow and impound fees from the city or the condo unless you can prove the ticket was issued in malice. If the building has documented their communications with you, and as long as the building is not treating you any differently than it would treat any other resident, good luck on proving malice..
In most cases the Human Right Commission is totally irrelevant in parking disputes unless there is a physical disability at play and the condo refuses to make reasonable accommodation for the disabled person. Unless this is the case, or you can PROVE that the condo is discriminating against you on Charter-prohibited grounds, you are unlikely to prevail.
Landlord-tenant issues also won't really come into it as long as the building is complying with the terms of your lease. If your lease says that rent includes one parking spot per apartment and the building regs state one vehicle per spot, then there is nothing for the tribunal to rule on. If the apartment in question is in a condo, the building regs become even more sacrosanct and not up for discussion.
Its obvious from the OP's post that he is not dealing with a pro landlord or a sophisticated one.
Your info is in correct, if I go to small claims court and file a motion against the towing company, and condo board, the towing company has to release my car at no charge to me.
Condo's will not just tow a car away, my experience on the commerical side of property management is the same. Yes, they will tow but it will not be an overnight process-- unless that vehicle is in a fire route or blocking entracne/door. A by law ticket on its own is not enough to warrent a tow, its not on a city street, nor is it on condo property. If i park my car in a legal spot and dont pay or the time expires, the city cannot just tow my car. Its the same on private property.
You missed the jist of my post. Ill make it even more clear.
The landlord tows my vehicle or gives me a ticket, as a tenant, I can live with that. BUT, at the same time, I can, cause consideable discomfort to the landlord. some examples-- call them everyday with a different problem, toilet leaks, then again that the drain is leaking then again that your outlet does not work, dosnt matter if its only a breaker etc... the landlord has to with in 24 hours remedy the problem, either fix it themselves or pay someone else too. See where i am going with this, its tit for tat scenerio that is best avoided.
Try to work it out with the landlord it at all possible. With the rental tribunal, the person can withhold a months rents, then pay then with hold it again etc..
I have good friends who own multiple income properties, the stories they tell me, about bad tenants etc..
the whole issue seems suspect too me, the landlord wants $50 extra to park motorcycle in the same spot and refuses to rent out another, then it must be legal to park 2 cars in one spot?? or else the landlord couldnt ask for the extra $50. Or its illegal but the landlord doesnt seem to car so as long as he gets paid. either way, according to the actions of the landlord, its ok to park 2 vehicles in one spot.
BTW Turbo, i went through the same nonsense with my condo board back a few years ago. Got all kinds of nice letters, some from their lawyers stating nonsense. First, i didnt have a plate on my car (that was insured and had plates but i kept them in the trunk as previous times my plates were stolen- was a classic car and not a daily driver). Offered them proof of ownership, current registriation and insurance, the condo board said it wasnt enough however their lawyers agreed with me. Issue resolved.-
Second time was with my motorcycle, same thing, letter etc... that one was fun!! I did an inspection of the condo underground myself, and found something like 22 violations of condo board policy, everything from other motorcycles, to trailers, jet skiis, 2 boats (one belonged to a memeber of the board the other to a superintendent). etc.. because I was a owner, I asked to see the notes and how the other issues were being handled, as the other bikes had been parking in there spots for at least 3 years and mine was only in mine for 2 months. Turns out that I was the only person getting letters and being citied, I asked them to action every other violation, including the boats etc.. and once those are resolved, I will happlily rent another spot. never heard anything again.
condo boards are toothless, outside of writing letter there is not much else they can do, yes legal action is possible but its costly and rarely undertaken.
Um, no. Your info is incorrect. The way we do things at the one condo that I'm a board member of, the ticket is a city ticket, the car is placed in the custody of a city bylaw officer, and the tow is authorized and supervised by that city bylaw officer. Your claim would therefore be with the city and not the condo board or towing company, and good luck with that one. I've been a condo director since 1996 and a condo president for much of that time. Never had a tow come back to bite anyone precisely because we follow that protocol.
A well-run condo with an educated board and a competent property manager has a lot more clout to enforce rules than you might think. We have never lost a rules compliance challenge with an owner or tenant. Documentation is key, and our condo documents everything.
In one instance we actually got a court order from a judge forcing an owner to vacate his unit over continual rules compliance issues. Among the issues - repeatedly parking of his vehicles in visitor parking, with and without plates, and in some instance with borrowed dealer plates. It took a little while. We sent letters which were ignored. We then sent an invitation for mediation and then arbitration, which was ignored. Then we went to court. He showed up for court. The judge chewed him out over his behaviour and gave him 90 days to vacate. No appeal.
Your tit for tat scenario is a risky one to begin. Any competent property manager will keep records of service calls for each unit. If your unit is the only one making multiple calls for service, a nuisance pattern will soon become obvious and the landlord would eventually have sufficient evidence of excessive nuisance to support an eviction. But, before evicting you, a savvy landlord would first ensure that your name and details about your behaviour go into multiple formal and informal blacklists of toxic tenants that are available to landlords looking to screen potential new tenants. Good luck if your name ever appears on any of those lists.
Last edited by turbodish; 05-30-2011 at 10:55 PM.
I have never seen a condo go to that level, ever, not saying it does not happen but never seen it at the resdential level. At the commerical level, yes, things happen much faster.
On what city by law, would you have my motorcycle towed from my owned condo parking spot, please eloborate and show me the actual by law. Since that is the exact example we are talking about. The one were the motorcycle and my car are sharing a spot. On what by law would you have my vehicle towed from my owned spot for not having plates on it, after I have shown the board and your legal counsel, proof of ownership, insurance and current registration?
Ok, beleive what you want but they have no clout at all. The example you site is based on some clown who never challenged anyone of your letters, what was the timeline on that? I gave you two examples from my personal life in my owned condo. Condo property management is based on fear and strongly written letters. Thats it, most people would comply, as I would have complied as well if the rules were uniform to everyone.
Here is an example, Turbo, you are the landlord and I am the tenant.
You tow my bike, fine, ill live with that, now I will call you one week for a leaky toilet, 3 days later, a leaky faucet, then a noisey exhaust fan, then a bad outlet, then the toilet again, then the leaky drain from the trap service hole etc... on and on and on. You must action these within 24 hours. Thats a lot of lost time and money. Ill even call the city various times for various deficent work order, then ill go to the tribunal and it will be you that looks bad not me. Its not worth it too go this route, I told the OP to work it out with the landlord. But, there are times that tenants need to be reminded of what they are allowed to do, landlords also at times need to be reminded of what they need to do.
Nuisance claims?? what is this nonsense you speak of? no such thing at all, ever talk to a rental building superinetendent?? its the 80/20 rule there too, 20% of residents account for 80% of calls or complaints, thats property management 101, you should know this if you are and have been in the biz since 1996.
Please, give a list of this "black lists" that you speak off, ill go to the human rights commission and claim discrimnation and you will have to defend that claim, regardless of merit and have no means to recover those costs.
We can go back and forth all day long, but tenants have more rights in Ontario then owners do. 3 of my buddies are in that business, as in they all own 10 or more doors each. One of my best buddies actually moved to a different part of the country and started up there because of the insane tenant laws we have here. Hey , its still a profitable biz but it does not come without challenges.
The Mississauga parking bylaw we have used over the years is 555-00, and it states that no person shall park a vehicle on private property without the consent of the property owners. Prior to ticketing and towing request, property management would have notified you in writing that the vehicle was not authorized to be parked on the property. That documentation and copies of any other correspondence related to parking issues would remain on file in case there are any questions raised later.
More on letters and such. In our condo we don't waste much time with toxic owners or tenants. The first two letters on a given issue come from the property manager and cost nothing, and the second letter outlines what will happen if a third letter is necessary.
After that, the letters start coming from the condo's lawyer, and the cost of those letters are charged back to the unit owner's common element expenses. If those common element expenses are not promptly paid, it's just a matter of short time before we register a lien against the unit, and the legal paperwork for the lien adds another $1,000 or so in legal fees to the unit owner's tab. If the lien and legal fees remain unpaid for 90 days, then the next step is to begin power of sale proceedings on the unit. At that point the bank holding the mortgage usually steps in and pays off the lien, then adds the amount of the lien plus lien legal fees, plus their own service charges to the amount owing on your mortgage. The authority to do all of this is defined in the Condominium Act.
If an owner wants to dick around, we'll let them but it will come at a hefty price. If a tenant wants to dick around, the owner pays the price, and if the owner won't deal with the problem tenant, we can get an order forcing termination of tenancy even over the owner's objections. The Condo Act puts a lot of power in the hands of condo boards when it comes to enforcing a condo's rules and regs.
It's just up to each condo to make use of those powers as need. Our's does, it does so consistently without playing favourites, and it documents every step along the way. Scofflaw owners and tenants clean up their acts pretty quickly or they leave. Your game would not have played for very long had it occurred in our condo corporation.
Back to your scheme to make constant demands for repairs. The property manager can log all repair demands received, and he or she can also require you to submit all repair demands in writing. A large volume of constant return calls for repairs opens the door for property management to not renew your lease when it's up, and to require you to vacate the unit so they can "plan to do major repairs or renovations that require a building permit and the work cannot be done unless the rental unit is empty", as per the Residential Tenancies Act. The log of frequent repair demands coming from you will support their claim that the unit requires major repairs that cannot happen with you still in the unit, and you will have provided them with all the ammo they need.
Alternately, your plan to be late paying rent from time to time is also self-defeating. Persistent late payments is how the Residential Tenancies Act refers to it, and it is sufficient grounds to end your occupancy at the end of your lease.
By that time you will already be labelled a toxic tenant. Of course it will be done in a way that doesn't actually call you that. Instead, those blacklists I was talking about will just have your name and the details of the property manager's experiences with you, and any judgment about you as a potential tenant will be up to the reader to decide.
Consider it payback that can stick with you for a long time to come, and there is precious little that a Human Rights Commission can do about it as long as the information is factual. It wouldn't even get past the HRC screening stage.
Last edited by turbodish; 05-31-2011 at 02:21 AM.
You sitting on a condo board for 15+ years makes a lot of sense to me.....
Last edited by raginduck; 05-31-2011 at 10:13 AM.
I had never heard before about the term landlord and tenant board. Would you like to elaborate its functions
and duties. I am curious about it coz I need it also. My tenant is annoying me for some reason which I'll
discuss later. But for now, I need to know something more about the landlord and tenant board.
regards
Moderator
http://www.ltb.gov.on.ca/en/index.htm
Morally Ambiguous (submissions welcome)
"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth." - Oscar Wilde
Funny, I actually knew that (didn't have the details you did though).
Interesting that you are a landlord, with a tenant(s)..... and yet you've never heard of the landlord/tenant board.
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