Help me plan my epic trip of a lifetime! Toronto->California and back in 15 days!

[_eug_]

What is the budget for this trip?

[Thom]

You are wise to get as far south as possible that first day. The morning you leave home will be COLD. I have done a few trips mid May to South Carolina and it was around 4 degrees each morning when I left, and it didn't start to warm up till Pittsburgh... and you are leaving four weeks earlier than that!

[Thom]

Keep small change and a few dollars in a ziploc bag in your jacket pocket or tank bag for tolls. Just hand the bag to the attendant, they will take what they need (make change etc) then give you the bag back. Quick and easy, no fumbling in your pockets etc.

[Wheelieboy]

What is the budget for this trip?

Gas=$50-60/day
Food=$15-25/day
Accommodations= $40/day
Misc costs=$0-20/day

Multiply by 15 days...


Total estimated cost=$1575-$2025

Keep small change and a few dollars in a ziploc bag in your jacket pocket or tank bag for tolls. Just hand the bag to the attendant, they will take what they need (make change etc) then give you the bag back. Quick and easy, no fumbling in your pockets etc.

I never thought of that, great advise!

[revrandy]

If your food budget is $15 - $25 a day, you aren't planning on eating much in California. A pint of beer here is $5 - $8, burgers regularly $8 (unless you do fast food). $40 for accomodations means you won't be staying in hotels every night. Even in the middle of nowhere, a hotel is $35 & up (and that is no name and definitely less than 2 stars).

FYI right now gas in SoCal is $4.05 gallon.

[A.K.]

...

[Wheelieboy]

If your food budget is $15 - $25 a day, you aren't planning on eating much in California. A pint of beer here is $5 - $8, burgers regularly $8 (unless you do fast food). $40 for accomodations means you won't be staying in hotels every night. Even in the middle of nowhere, a hotel is $35 & up (and that is no name and definitely less than 2 stars).

FYI right now gas in SoCal is $4.05 gallon.

Estimates are just averages. Some nights i will be camping for free or spending minimal $. Some days i will be staying at motels. Same with food

[TwistedKestrel]

A little worried about your budget. It's not impossible if you're camping out at *least* every other night, I think. However, that factors into something else - your riding schedule is pretty aggressive! It's not hard to do 800-900 km on the first day or two, but once you're a few days in you will start to dread the longer days. ESPECIALLY on an SS. You say you've done long trips before, how long were they in terms of time? Also always try to be on the road a little after dawn if you can. If you get where you're going early, great - you have daylight to spend! If not, then it cuts down on the risk you'll be riding in the dark. I'm not one of the people that say never ride in the dark ever, but it makes no sense to do so on a long trip like this - you can easily get in all your seat time while the sun is up, and once it sets then you greatly increase the risk of getting hit by a car, deer, bear, etc.

Items on your list you might want to think hard about taking:
-4L water jug (will take up a lot of space, maybe break it up into smaller water bottles)
-bear spray (?)
-winter gloves (if you're staying anywhere that cold, the gloves alone aren't gonna cut it)

If you can fit all that crap on your bike though, well, kudos. :P I take my hardcover Haynes manual on my big trips - seems overkill but it has come in handy! I noticed a big omission, too ... pants. Nobody likes a guy that's not wearing pants!

I actually would consider tagging along, but I keep forgetting to turn my parts collection back into a motorcycle. Won't bet on being finished before then.

[Wheelieboy]

A little worried about your budget. It's not impossible if you're camping out at *least* every other night, I think. However, that factors into something else - your riding schedule is pretty aggressive! It's not hard to do 800-900 km on the first day or two, but once you're a few days in you will start to dread the longer days. ESPECIALLY on an SS. You say you've done long trips before, how long were they in terms of time? Also always try to be on the road a little after dawn if you can. If you get where you're going early, great - you have daylight to spend! If not, then it cuts down on the risk you'll be riding in the dark. I'm not one of the people that say never ride in the dark ever, but it makes no sense to do so on a long trip like this - you can easily get in all your seat time while the sun is up, and once it sets then you greatly increase the risk of getting hit by a car, deer, bear, etc.

Items on your list you might want to think hard about taking:
-4L water jug (will take up a lot of space, maybe break it up into smaller water bottles)
-bear spray (?)
-winter gloves (if you're staying anywhere that cold, the gloves alone aren't gonna cut it)

If you can fit all that crap on your bike though, well, kudos. :P I take my hardcover Haynes manual on my big trips - seems overkill but it has come in handy! I noticed a big omission, too ... pants. Nobody likes a guy that's not wearing pants!

I actually would consider tagging along, but I keep forgetting to turn my parts collection back into a motorcycle. Won't bet on being finished before then.

In terms of continuous riding time, I've done a 3 day back to back ride that were 10-12 hours each. I find that google maps isn't all that accurate with times either and I find I arrive at my destination 1 hour early most times in good weather and traffic. I would just have to worry about time in non-ideal conditions.

Budget is not that restrictive, I'm pretty flexible with it.

For the water jug, I will take ShaneKingsley's advise on the camelback. And I just put the bear spray in just because I assumed it would be a good idea to carry if I'm camping out. Winter gloves are for cold/mountain riding. When riding in the cold, I usually wear mittens+latex gloves+winter gloves.

Good observation on the pants, probably a good thing to add on my list :P

[bww77]

Also CAA (if you have it) helps when it comes to staying in hotels... as it will typically get you another 10-15% discount off the nightly fee. Do enjoy the trip and I look forward to hearing about it upon your return! Ride safe and good luck!

[A.K.]

You might want to consider packing a few pairs of plastic gloves (like surgical gloves). They are very useful for dirty jobs like plugging a flat tire. Also, a few wet wipes (baby wipes) can be very handy on the road. They both pack very small.

You can utilize your rear pegs using the peg packer: http://www.bestrestproducts.com/c-114-pegpacker.aspx

[shanekingsley]

+1 on carrying a surgical gloves to keep the hands clean when having to do quick work on the bike. I would also keep a moist small facecloth in a ziplock bag to use when I needed a clean helemt visor or windshield. I could just wash the towel at night if needed and keeping it in a ziplock keeps it wet but moisture away from things I need kept dry. It's less waste than wetnaps or disposable wipes.

As for the peg packer - it's a great idea...

[tiborgh]

Re: Grand Canyon, the locals told me that if only one day is available to visit the Canyons, the best bet is to go to the South Rim. I've been on a somewhat similar tour two year ago, (Cali and back in 16 days, but driving in Aug/Sep), check out this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8_Ul8FsPNU

Places of interest around your route:
Lake Havasu, AZ
Petrified Forest National Park, AZ
Route 66 through Oatman, AZ (highly recommended)
Highway 89A between Flagstaff and Sedona (highly recommended)
Death Valley (highly recommended)
San Francisco through Pacific Coast Highway (I wouldn't miss this one if in the area)

[Wheelieboy]

Re: Grand Canyon, the locals told me that if only one day is available to visit the Canyons, the best bet is to go to the South Rim. I've been on a somewhat similar tour two year ago, (Cali and back in 16 days, but driving in Aug/Sep), check out this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8_Ul8FsPNU

Places of interest around your route:
Lake Havasu, AZ
Petrified Forest National Park, AZ
Route 66 through Oatman, AZ (highly recommended)
Highway 89A between Flagstaff and Sedona (highly recommended)
Death Valley (highly recommended)
San Francisco through Pacific Coast Highway (I wouldn't miss this one if in the area)

Looks like you had fun! You did it in 16 days and approximately 3000km more than my route. How much driving did you do per day? Did you keep up with the time estimates according to google maps? Or were you faster/slower? I mentioned earlier that when I load a map into my GPS, the estimated (and more accurate than google maps) time is always approx 10% faster.

Also CAA (if you have it) helps when it comes to staying in hotels... as it will typically get you another 10-15% discount off the nightly fee. Do enjoy the trip and I look forward to hearing about it upon your return! Ride safe and good luck!

I have CAA and I have been told about the hotel discounts but thanks for reminding me I also plan on picking up paper maps incase my GPS craps out.


Taking in some of the advise here about tornado season, I quickly created another potential route. Length is approximately the same, but I havent figured out the logistics of the day to day route. Again the route is very crude and primitive because I just wanted to see how I would do for time, at the same time trying to create a route to places I'm interested in seeing. Also google maps wouldnt let me put more waypoints in because I had too many. I completely took out the part where I ride through Texas, and I added in a suggested route in AZ. Since I got rid of the whole Texas/New Mexico part, I was able to include Utah which is one of the places I wanted to go to originally but didnt have time. Unfortunately, this means that I have a ~1500km slab from Toronto to Colorado. But it might be worth it because I'll get to see more things. There are just 3 major slabs in this route. The 1500km stretches I can do in 1 day if I wake up early enough and can save me a lot of time.

http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=d&sourc...,10.821533&z=7

[revrandy]

I seriously doubt you can do 1500 km's in a day. 1000 km's perhaps, 1500 extremely unlikely on a bike.

As to your revised route. Instead of coming back almost the same way, why not head a bit north? I would head up the coast in California, cross over near Reno and then maybe swing through South Dakota etc. Your revised routing has quite a bit of boring stretches, and overlaps, why not break it up? Also to me it is criminal to come to California and not ride up the PCH. The one stretch up near Santa Barbara is listed as one of the top 10 motorcycle rides in North America - to be so close and not ride it is just wrong (in my opinion).

[Wheelieboy]

I seriously doubt you can do 1500 km's in a day. 1000 km's perhaps, 1500 extremely unlikely on a bike.

As to your revised route. Instead of coming back almost the same way, why not head a bit north? I would head up the coast in California, cross over near Reno and then maybe swing through South Dakota etc. Your revised routing has quite a bit of boring stretches, and overlaps, why not break it up? Also to me it is criminal to come to California and not ride up the PCH. The one stretch up near Santa Barbara is listed as one of the top 10 motorcycle rides in North America - to be so close and not ride it is just wrong (in my opinion).

I've done 1000kms of twisties+highway before so 1500km is doable...whether I'll keep my sanity is a different story.

The overlap is due to time constraints. I could take a different highway back, but it will still be straight and boring.

I've heard of PCH before but I didnt know it was the top 10 motorcycle rides. If thats the case I'll incorporate it for sure but I'll have to do some major changes to my route.

My dilemma is that I want to ride most of the route highlighted in Colorado, see the canyons of Utah, and visit all the route highlighted in Arizona...but also do many of the recommended routes.

I'm thinking maybe I should just do Moab->Canyonland National Park back up to Moab for the Utah leg, and take the road West to San Fran to ride the PCH. In the new route I'd be able to see the Salt Flats too. Do you recommend riding highway 1 from San Fran to LA? Or go through the parks such as Sierra/Yosomite to switch it up? I remember seeing a sign posted that was 135mi of twisties or something like that and that road is somewhere in those parks. I do want to see Rushmore at South Dakota but again the issue is time.


What do you think?



Roughly this route: http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=d&sourc...,10.821533&z=7

[tiborgh]

Looks like you had fun! You did it in 16 days and approximately 3000km more than my route. How much driving did you do per day? Did you keep up with the time estimates according to google maps? Or were you faster/slower? I mentioned earlier that when I load a map into my GPS, the estimated (and more accurate than google maps) time is always approx 10% faster.

On average I was doing 800-900 kms per day or about 8-9 hors of driving. That gave me plenty of time for sightseeing and side trips. On a busy trip like this, a good time management is essential. A lot of time can be wasted searching for accomodation, food, etc.

When planning with Google maps and/or GPS, be aware that those estimates are based on driving at the posted speed limit on the selected route, with no provision for the stops (bathroom, gas, food, traffic). While in Ontario I do 120-130 on the 100kmh streches, which helps me beat the GPS estimates even with stops, in the States I tend to stay within 6-7mph above the posted limit. There are cops everywhere and one or more speeding ticket would just ruin my trip. This means that the GPS estimates are more accurate if not "optimistic". On a recent trip to Florida, pulling a trailer, after 1450kms I was 2hrs behind the GPS estimate (with only the necessary breaks).

[Wheelieboy]

I've updated my second route option in the original post. I made it so that the days aren't as long (average of 450mi, ~750km / day) and I get more "flavours" of America. I also have 1 more day of "rest/do whatever I want/make-up day" on Day 13...which I can use to either rest or make up for lost time. I think this route is an improvement over the original. I'll let this plan sit for a couple of days and then figure out where I'm going to be sleeping.

I don't have a tent yet. Can anyone recommend a place that sells a good selection of tents in the GTA? Preferably in the Richmond Hill/Markham/Woodbridge/North York area?

[Metastable]

OPTION 2 FOR SURE!!!!
- Forget Texas, especially that area, the only fun stuff in Texas is around Austin. Plus a lot of those little towns in Texas are just speed trap money generators.... it's terrible. There are speed limits in Texas as has been pointed out and they were raised on I-10 to 80.... I'm bummed because I got a ticket on that section for 84, back when it was 70.

- I've had this discussion with many sport touring types and they never listen, but I will say my bit again. I know it is about the journey and all, but what I do is.... I drive out there with bikes in the back of a truck or van or something... park the car, then ride. It maximizes ENJOYABLE riding time. Your route to Colorado on the 2nd option is perfect for this. You'll know you are about to get off i-80 because you pass one hell of a STINKY cow farm (to your left) .... just after that you get the exit towards Denver. Consider parking the car in Colorado, then doing the rest of your ride as you planned it or change it up a little as you see fit. If you get another person to tag along, you guys can Drive/Sleep and not have to stop at all. It takes about 24 hrs to get to Denver. I have done it 3 times. Please understand that between here and Illinois = heavy traffic with lots of trucks and impatient drivers. Then you get CORN from Illinois to Nebraska. Dude, I mean you get CORN and that is all you see except for Iowa City and De Moines.... you don't see ANYTHING other than corn. It is so boring I now plan to drive by Iowa at night, because at least they have cool fire flies at flying around at night. Then you get a combo of corn, wheat, cattle and a bit of a river when you get to Nebraska... then the Stinky farm and soon you are in Colorado. I don't think it is worth slogging that crap out on a bike. Cannonball it, get there, then ride.... but it is up to you.

- Colorado - here is the deal dude, you are SO CLOSE to 24 between Minturn and Leadville, you MUST MUST MUST do that bit. Even if it means going up then back down again. A few other ones to consider are:
- Cottonwood Canyon
- 133 between Carbondale and Hotchkiss (you are already at Carbondale do the trip to Hotchkiss) awesome road, very little traffic and you are for the most part on a ridge.
- Independence Pass (82) is pretty good, but has more traffic than other roads and can get a touch busy on the weekends, but probably not that time of year. I see you have that one down too, when I went the road was a little bumpy, but that was a few years ago as well.
- 50 through Monarch pass is a RIOT!!!! I saw you had that one on your route.... and maybe it is a personal thing that I liked it so much, but going up hill they give you 2 lanes (we were heading east FYI when I did it) going in the same direction and one lane going down the hill.

I have a 3 friends (2 which ride) in Colorado.... you could leave a tow vehicle or truck at their places if you wanted to.
- California PCH 1 has a nice bit south of Monterey.... but I really liked riding around the San Fransisco Bay area. Mines Road is a nice challenging road, PCH1 north of the Golden Gate is nice, and so are some of the roads just to the east of 1 north of the Golden Gate. The Golden Gate on a motorcycle was an awesome experience, dunno why I liked it so much, but I did.

- There are plenty of good roads around LA as well... like Deckers Canyon and many others which revrandy can fill you in better than I can.

[Wheelieboy]

OPTION 2 FOR SURE!!!!
- Forget Texas, especially that area, the only fun stuff in Texas is around Austin. Plus a lot of those little towns in Texas are just speed trap money generators.... it's terrible. There are speed limits in Texas as has been pointed out and they were raised on I-10 to 80.... I'm bummed because I got a ticket on that section for 84, back when it was 70.

- I've had this discussion with many sport touring types and they never listen, but I will say my bit again. I know it is about the journey and all, but what I do is.... I drive out there with bikes in the back of a truck or van or something... park the car, then ride. It maximizes ENJOYABLE riding time. Your route to Colorado on the 2nd option is perfect for this. You'll know you are about to get off i-80 because you pass one hell of a STINKY cow farm (to your left) .... just after that you get the exit towards Denver. Consider parking the car in Colorado, then doing the rest of your ride as you planned it or change it up a little as you see fit. If you get another person to tag along, you guys can Drive/Sleep and not have to stop at all. It takes about 24 hrs to get to Denver. I have done it 3 times. Please understand that between here and Illinois = heavy traffic with lots of trucks and impatient drivers. Then you get CORN from Illinois to Nebraska. Dude, I mean you get CORN and that is all you see except for Iowa City and De Moines.... you don't see ANYTHING other than corn. It is so boring I now plan to drive by Iowa at night, because at least they have cool fire flies at flying around at night. Then you get a combo of corn, wheat, cattle and a bit of a river when you get to Nebraska... then the Stinky farm and soon you are in Colorado. I don't think it is worth slogging that crap out on a bike. Cannonball it, get there, then ride.... but it is up to you.

- Colorado - here is the deal dude, you are SO CLOSE to 24 between Minturn and Leadville, you MUST MUST MUST do that bit. Even if it means going up then back down again. A few other ones to consider are:
- Cottonwood Canyon
- 133 between Carbondale and Hotchkiss (you are already at Carbondale do the trip to Hotchkiss) awesome road, very little traffic and you are for the most part on a ridge.
- Independence Pass (82) is pretty good, but has more traffic than other roads and can get a touch busy on the weekends, but probably not that time of year.
- 50 through Monarch pass is a RIOT!!!! I saw you had that one your first route.... and maybe it is a personal thing that I liked it so much, but going up hill they give you 2 lanes (we were heading east FYI when I did it) going in the same direction and one lane going down the hill.

I have a 3 friends (2 which ride) in Colorado.... you could leave a tow vehicle or truck at their places if you wanted to.

I didn't get a chance to see much of your route two option, but it is hard to screw up the western states too much.

Unfortunately I dont have a vehicle that is set up to tow so that is out of the question.

Thanks for the advise for the Colorado routes. I will take a look and see if I can fit it in. While I was doing my research, I did find a little disappointing fact about Colorado. Many of the mountain passes are closed and will be closed until Memorial Day which is after the end of my trip. I might have to consider doing the trip in reverse and maybe there will be a chance that many of the mountain passes will be open by the time I swing back into Colorado. Hopefully its not the same situation for South Dakota, they are more North than Colorado but I havent checked the elevation of the passes I will be going through.