Dyna Beads

[mike100]

This topic came up in another thread on balancing tires.
So I was thinking of using Dyna Beads or a similar product(someone suggested air-soft pellets).
I would like to get some feedback either positive or negative on the use of dyna-beads as a quick easy way of balancing tires from riders with experience using them.
My personal use would be street use, but race input welcome as well.
Thanks

[frekeyguy]

your in brampton, i'll balance your wheels

tire mfg.s dont warrently tire with dyna beads....

why risk it?

[FiReSTaRT]

Mods, you can close the thread now

[Flywheel]

ADVrider has a gigantic thread on them somewhere. One poster decided that if the idea was valid, then any sort of beads should work. He used a bunch of Air Soft pellets (0.2 gram "sniper" pellets, IIRC) equaling the recommended DB weights.

Since I was changing my tires at the time, I decided why not. Not being a air-gun enthusiast, I had to track down the pellets at a local Wal-Mart. If the bike wobbled noticeably, I'd get extra practice changing tires and balancing the wheels conventionally.

Nothing unusual happened. Handling seemed unaffected at all legal speeds. Rain, shine, hot, cold. I nearly forgot about them completely, actually. Truth or fiction? Can't say, really. It wasn't a scientific test and I'm not a skilled test rider.

I was hoping for something dramatic, one way or another. Experiences seem to vary all over the place, from what I can gather. No reports of injuries. Maybe it's a sort of Rorschach test.

[turbodish]

ADVrider has a gigantic thread on them somewhere. One poster decided that if the idea was valid, then any sort of beads should work. He used a bunch of Air Soft pellets (0.2 gram "sniper" pellets, IIRC) equaling the recommended DB weights.

I'm using the 0.12 gram green plastic pellets sold at Canadian Tire for about $6 or $7 a bottle, enough to balance 3 or 4 tires even if you don't reuse the used pellets for the next balancing.

I'm now on my third set of tires balanced with those pellets. The previous two sets showed no evidence of abnormal wear or abrasion caused by the pellets to the inside of the tire carcasses, and the tires felt perfectly balanced and vibration-free throughout the life of the tread. No messy stick-on weights on my rims to clean around. And no reason to not use the pellets again on my next set of tires.

I would avoid using steel bb pellets though because of high potential for corrosion, and the potential for possible abrasive action that pellets pitted by corrosion may have on the inside of the tire carcass.

[dricked]

Really for the cost of your pellits someone could have balanced your tire. If you buy a tire from a local dealer they usually install and balance for free/cheap if you bring just the rims in. After spending 500$ in tires I can't see risking them to save 30$.

[turbodish]

Really for the cost of your pellits someone could have balanced your tire. If you buy a tire from a local dealer they usually install and balance for free/cheap if you bring just the rims in. After spending 500$ in tires I can't see risking them to save 30$.

I made a one-time purchase of these pellets. http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/5/SportsRec/SoftAir/SoftAirgunAccessories/PRD~0755203P/Crosman%2525AE%252BAirsoft%252BBBs%25252C%252B2000-ct.jsp?locale=en I bought hem on sale and saved a bit more off the already low price. The pellets don't seem to deteriorate when used inside a tire, so I just reuse them when I change tires. Total cost of balancing three sets of tires so far is peanuts, plus being able to reuse the same used pellets over and over again for future tire set balancing means that my net incremental cost to balance tires in the future will be zero.


I install and balance my own tires, and that gives me freedom to source my tires from any supplier I want without regard for the cost and scheduling availability for subsequent installation and balancing. I change and balance my tires when it's convenient for me to do so, and not when a dealer can fit me into their service schedule. I save not only the $30 you mention per set for balancing, but can also take advantage of the absolute lowest tire sale prices out there without worry of then having a hassle finding a shop to install and balance my tires when I want or need them installed.

Difficulty of balancing using the beads is just a matter of measuring the appropriate weight of beads for the tire, and then pouring them in through the open bead before using air to set the bead. It takes literally seconds and the balance is perfect and stays perfect throughout the life of the tire. You can't balance tires any faster or better even if you have your own home tire balancing rig.

[Ritchard]

I've been using Dynabeads for a while. I don't think they are costly at all, so have not really considered airsoft pellets. They seem to do a great job of balancing the tires, though it's kind of an argument from silence, as I don't really know what the same tires would feel like without the beads. I like the idea of the beads for two reasons. First, it allows me change my own tires and not have to bother with having them balanced or owning a balancer and fussing with it. I change my tires back and forth from highway tires to knobbies a few times a season, as I don't have a spare set of wheels for my GS. Second, I like the idea of a dynamic balance situation that changes to accomodate tire wear. Maybe third, using the beads just seems a bit contrarian to me, and going against the grain is sort of in my nature.

[LaGrange]

they dont work as wonderfully or magicially as it says. yes they "dynamically balance" but not all the time. the correct weight needed, moisture, and the rough surface of the inside of a tire are all working agaisnt the beads. Ive balanced tires on the machine using dyna beads that say yes this is what you use... and its close to 50 grams off still, especially in a spoked wheel. balance a wheel the proper way, and it wont be wrong. believe something someone tells you to get your money cause it sounds like magic and why did nobody think of this before?... its only your WHEELS

[Flywheel]

Just to clarify, the Air Soft pellets I used were NOT metal, but plastic. I've heard that modern motorcycle wheels are pretty well balanced right out of the box. Perhaps wheel weights were a response to the potentially irregular die stamped/welded steel rims of decades ago.

[nobbie48]

From their website:

Quote
The way we do this is by offering a Dynamic Balancing Solution, a high-density ceramic bead that, when easily installed, continuously balances your tires as you drive. The amount of material will distribute itself in weight and position dependent on the balance requirements of the individual tire. Unquote

They are ceramic.

A lot of people swear by them but are they really effective, a placebo or ????

I don't understand how they know how to relocate themselves to a lighter part of the tire. The way I see it is that centrifical force would make them relocate evenly or worse by filling a low spot. Maybe a physics major can clarify but isn't centrifical force like artificial gravity where a fluid would seek its own level? How would the fluid either water or beads know how to locate? Spock please report to the bridge!

If the beads are acting like self directed mini dynamic balancers maybe we can make hollow flywheels and fill them with the little things and put an end to those vibrating V twin paint shakers.

P.S. A guy on another forum said his dad used antifreeze in his tires for the same result. Water would have frozen.

[RonnieRev]

First hand experience, I use them and my bike runs smooth at what ever speed,and I get no cupping or feathering on the front tire that I had before with a static balance. I to change my own tires, so the beads are easy and cheap.

[turbodish]

I don't understand how they know how to relocate themselves to a lighter part of the tire. The way I see it is that centrifical force would make them relocate evenly or worse by filling a low spot. Maybe a physics major can clarify but isn't centrifical force like artificial gravity where a fluid would seek its own level? How would the fluid either water or beads know how to locate? Spock please report to the bridge!

When it's rotating at speed, the heaviest spot in your tire will try to escape its rotational orbit more than the lightest spot. Assume your tire is spinning with the heaviest spot at top dead center. That spot trying to "escape orbit" will try to lift the tire straight up off the ground. That's where unbalanced tire thump comes from. With beads or liquid inside the tire, as the heavy spot is trying to escape orbit, the liquid or beads do not. As the heavy part of the tire at top dead center tries to lift the tire off the ground, the beads or liquid balancer will respond by moving to the light part of the tire so as to maintain a consistent orbit.

[SunnY S]

I don't doubt that Dynabeads "work". But for what reason are most, if not all tire manufacturer's unanimous in agreement when they say that using Dynabeads will void the warranty?

In this day and age of cutting weight and costs, wouldn't it be in the bike builders interest to just throw in some beads when mounting hundreds if not thousands of tires a day? Surely that would be cheaper and much faster than having a dedicated guy or two balancing tires all day.

.

[turbodish]

I don't doubt that Dynabeads "work". But for what reason are most, if not all tire manufacturer's unanimous in agreement when they say that using Dynabeads will void the warranty?

In this day and age of cutting weight and costs, wouldn't it be in the bike builders interest to just throw in some beads when mounting hundreds if not thousands of tires a day? Surely that would be cheaper and much faster than having a dedicated guy or two balancing tires all day..

The tire companies are playing it safe by narrowly restricting the terms by which they will assume liability for tire failure. The list of warranty restrictions can be huge depending on manufacturer. For example, the Bridgestone warranty will also be voided if you tow a trailer with your motorcycle.

With respect to tire balancing media, no tire manufacturer specifically names Dynabeads or any other specific internal balancing media. Metzler uses the term liquid sealers and balancing fluids, but makes no mention of solid media placed inside the tire. Bridgestone does mention both liquid and solid internal balancing materials, but makes no specific mention of Dynabeads. By doing so, they effectively blanket-cover themselves against any form of balancing media that MAY degrade the tire carcass from inside, like the fool who uses gasoline, kerosene, or solvent based fluids as a liquid balancer, or someone who uses highly abrasive solids or broken glass beads as a balancing media.

My own personal experience is as follows. I used AirSoft beads on my previous two sets of tires. They were vibration free throughout their very good tread life. When I replaced the old tires with new, I reused the beads. They are now in my third set of tires. After each tire change I inspected the insides of the old tire carcasses once they were off the rims and found no evidence at all of rubber dust or any other indication of abrasive wear or damage to the inside of the tire. I'm not worried in the least about any bad effects any more.

There's a discussion of Dynabeads on the ADV forum. Check post 206 written by a motorcycle shop owner at http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9241573 , and read through the other comments as well, including posts by other motorcycle shop owners. It's a big thread, but it touches on everything anyone might ever want to say on either side of the issue.

There is also a Youtube video showing how a tire balancing ring works. It's not quite the same as balancing beads but it works on the same principles, and the video shows a strobe-lit stop-action glass see-through view of large scale "balancing beads" in action as they work to balance an unbalanced tire and rim assembly. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skY6qvzpNXI

[Brian P]

I've never used this solution, but I have a question about a potential issue that I can foresee.

Some tires - notably the Michelin Pilot Power 2CT (I know this with certainty because I just looked at a new one in my shop) but certainly others as well, have a textured surface to the inside of the tire. I'm thinking that this could restrict the free movement of those beads to circulate around the inside of the tire. If there is high centrifugal force, won't each bead just find a pocket in the texture and sit there doing nothing?

[turbodish]

I've never used this solution, but I have a question about a potential issue that I can foresee.

Some tires - notably the Michelin Pilot Power 2CT (I know this with certainty because I just looked at a new one in my shop) but certainly others as well, have a textured surface to the inside of the tire. I'm thinking that this could restrict the free movement of those beads to circulate around the inside of the tire. If there is high centrifugal force, won't each bead just find a pocket in the texture and sit there doing nothing?

The texture inside my Dunlops looks a bit like fine corduroy. The AirSoft beads that I use are much larger in diameter than the "valleys" in the corduroy texture. I'd imagine that that the pavement imperfections inherent in the smoothest roads would give enough tire bounce and deflection to let the beads jump those texture "valleys" as needed to find their balance points.

[boooya]

Just gonna chime in here and resurrect this topic on Dyna Beads.
Ive been following the dyna bead snake oil theory for some time and have called BS since day one, Just cant see how they would work but have always wanted to give them a shot.
Recently had tires put on and have had a very high pitched/Frequency vibration thats been driving my absolutly nuts.
And yes the tires were balanced properly.
I proceded to remove the weights and go for another ride and the vibration was about 5 times worse then before. So perfect time to waste my money on some Dyna Beads and put my mind to rest that they actually do not work....
So off to Royal's no tax tent sale and picked some up. Got home and put them in the tires, 1oz in the front and 2oz in the back.
For the record these things are a major pain in the *** to get into the vlave stem .
Anyway back to the story..
Jumped on the bike and hit the road, smooth... Hmmm get the speed up abit to 80kph... Still smooth. Up to lets say just over 100kph (hehem COPS) and yep.....Still smooth, no vibration felt.
Do they work??? Id have to say YES they do work. Keep in mind the vibration was worse after pulling the weights off and they were never replaced after installing the beads..
I still cant grasp how they actually work of is they will do any damage to the inside of the tire but I really could care less..
I figured for $16 bucks id give it a shot, $16 very well spent. Im happy with them.

[Brian P]

Interesting. I think I'm going to try it on a non-critical application ... I've got an out-of-balance trailer tire that's been driving me nuts while towing.

[boooya]

Interesting. I think I'm going to try it on a non-critical application ... I've got an out-of-balance trailer tire that's been driving me nuts while towing.

Cant see why it wouldnt work on it unless the rim itself is bent. Then again I cant see how it works on tires so hey give it a shot lol