This is absolutely nuts

[Venom01]

I'm 29. You have said that before Viffer. It would seem all the insurance brokers seem to disagree with you though. I'm pretty sure I have a copy of my abstract. If not how do I get it. I have heard of them being wrong time to time, but no one ever contested the info I gave them or said my abstract said any differently. I know this is prob not the case but I still think they see where I live and charge more because a lot people where I live are high earners. Sounds stupid I know but I can't shake that feeling. I was going to see what SF would do if I moved my car with them but after hearing more than one person say they raised the rates up without notice it gets me worried. I don't even know if I'd want to try another quote with SF seeing how last year they quoted my at $1700 (roughly) for basic.

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[toshison]

One of my 19 year old acquaintance's rate is about $9500 for an '09 R6, with State Farm. Normally State Farm requires you to have had a driving license for more than 5-6 years to even be considered, but his mommy and daddy have 3 Mercedes vehicles and their 1.5 million dollar house with SF, including life insurance plans for their whole family I believe, so SF made an exception for him. Of course he doesn't pay for the insurance, he didn't even pay for the bike, oh and he drives a Nissan GT-R, don't get me started on that, I guess some people are just lucky and are born with a golden key in hand (a Chinese saying).

Ah I remember getting a part-time job at McDonald's and then walking into my first dealership at age 20 thinking I was going to get a 2004 R6, then finding out insurance for a Kawi 250 Ninja was $6000/year. Crushed my hopes and shattered my dreams.

On topic, the significant insurance rate discounts for most companies occur at 3 points in time:
- Age 25
- Age 30
- Getting married (whenever that may be, because married men are statistically more 'stable')

I hate this person you speak of. Just out of sheer jealousy. Some people are just lucky that way. Please don't tell me the parents bought the GT-R as well? If so, thats just wrong.

I don't know how any sensible human being could pay $9500 for insurance? Thats just wrong and this guy's parents might have more money than brains.

[Zed-X-Rex]

Zeds profile says he's from mississauga, which acording to my broker is one of the highest areas for claims and therefore highest rates in Ontario if not canada. That being said zed's rate don't make ANY sense. BTW Zed I'm not ripping on you by any means. In fact Congrats if that's what you are paying.

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Maybe the zx12 is considered a sport tourer like the busa? My vn 1600 & vn 2000 were both in the same ballpark for insurance. I do get the multi policy discount. I think its 10-15%? could be off. Anyway, ive come to the conclusion that all large displacement motorcycles cost 100/month with sf Ill call them
Now and get a quote for my blackbird, and see what they have to say.

[Zed-X-Rex]

Alright heres the deal. Full coverage on both.
98 cbr1100xx 102/month
06 gsxr1000 110/month

[VifferFun]

I'm 29. You have said that before Viffer. It would seem all the insurance brokers seem to disagree with you though. I'm pretty sure I have a copy of my abstract. If not how do I get it. I have heard of them being wrong time to time, but no one ever contested the info I gave them or said my abstract said any differently. I know this is prob not the case but I still think they see where I live and charge more because a lot people where I live are high earners. Sounds stupid I know but I can't shake that feeling. I was going to see what SF would do if I moved my car with them but after hearing more than one person say they raised the rates up without notice it gets me worried. I don't even know if I'd want to try another quote with SF seeing how last year they quoted my at $1700 (roughly) for basic.

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Regional differences in premium are not set on a whim, nor do they have anything to do with the incomes of the people living in the area. In general, the regional difference in premiums for motorcycle insurance are not nearly as severe when compared to Auto insurance -- in fact, many motorcycle insurance policies don't even care where you live.

You can order a copy of your AutoPlus report for free from CGI, once per year:
http://portal.cgi-ibs.com/en-CA/iis/...lusReport.aspx

Something seems weird with your situation. Try quoting with a broker in the Sticky Thread and see what they tell you (and they might be able to explain the reason the high rate better). Are you quoting assuming that the insurer will also get your Auto insurance business?

[Venom01]

No. Most brokers I talk to said I couldn't have my bike with my car. The few that did were more expensive together then separate.

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[dankyyz]

The industry is highly regulated . . . in fact, Ontario has one of the most highly regulated insurance industries in North America. The politicians are well aware of rising claims costs (and hence premiums) which is why they have attempted to combat the issue by the recent Ontario Statutory Accident Benefits reform.

Its funny that people think there is some big scam going on. And there is. People are scamming insurance companies, and they pass the costs onto the law abiding customers. As they have to.

And "trust" brokers/underwriters? LOL. Ok. Soo...ahhh...dont. And so you think someone is going to jump up on stage and do a show for you Ronnie? whokay.

[Rotten_Ronnie]

Its funny that people think there is some big scam going on. And there is. People are scamming insurance companies, and they pass the costs onto the law abiding customers. As they have to.

And "trust" brokers/underwriters? LOL. Ok. Soo...ahhh...dont. And so you think someone is going to jump up on stage and do a show for you Ronnie? whokay.

Shareholders dude. I'm pretty tired of getting blamed for these companies when they're declaring outrageous profits and sticking it to us.

Believe what you want.

[caboose483]

Shareholders dude. I'm pretty tired of getting blamed for these companies when they're declaring outrageous profits and sticking it to us.

Believe what you want.

You better be able to substantiate a claim like this.. what were State Farms earnings for 2009 and 2010?

[dankyyz]

Shareholders dude. I'm pretty tired of getting blamed for these companies when they're declaring outrageous profits and sticking it to us.

Believe what you want.

Right. Shareholders. The only reason their doors are open, and they exist to pay them. You could be one via some investment. Or pension.

Using the idea of "trust" was more my comment. Trust them to do what? They owe you what? You get a quote. You pay the fee, they deliver service. The idea that you are "owed" something down the road is preposterous.

My post is more a comment on this ongoing sense of entitlement that people seem to have. I'm not sure where it comes from. That everyone is OWED something.

It's not a conspiricy dude. You have been spoiled by the past. Its over. This is the new deal.

Deal.

[dankyyz]

You better be able to substantiate a claim like this.. what were State Farms earnings for 2009 and 2010?

And how much of that was from writing Motorcycle policies?

[rick123]

I can't believe there are people out there that will actually pay $4800 for insurance.

Exactly. And who is the ... overhere?

[Rotten_Ronnie]

Trust. Honesty. Loyalty. Value.

Wtf was I thinking? Thanks for bringing me back to reality there.

As for profits, let's take a larger sample as opposed to one year during an economic downturn. But you'll note they've clearly taken steps to reverse that trend in the boardroom. Lol.

If they weren't making money they'd go out of business.

Perhaps they should use the LCBO as a business model?

Sorry guys, I'll shut up now. Clearly make me froth at the mouth and get a bit irrational. When you figure out how we can collectively lower these rates, sign me up. In the meantime, I'll limit my risk and do the bulk of my riding north of the city.

Cheers.

[caboose483]

So you don't have any figures to support your claim?? Is that correct? An annual statement of earnings? A published news article perhaps? Go back 10 years and give us State Farm's Canadian earnings. The Freedom of Information Act should make that information accessible to anyone.

Of course they'd go out of business if they weren't making money. You didn't claim that they were simply turning a reasonable profit though, you claimed that "they're declaring outrageous profits". If you can't assign a dollar value to that qualitative statement, it's completely meaningless.

[VifferFun]

Trust. Honesty. Loyalty. Value.

Wtf was I thinking? Thanks for bringing me back to reality there.

As for profits, let's take a larger sample as opposed to one year during an economic downturn. But you'll note they've clearly taken steps to reverse that trend in the boardroom. Lol.

If they weren't making money they'd go out of business.

Perhaps they should use the LCBO as a business model?

Sorry guys, I'll shut up now. Clearly make me froth at the mouth and get a bit irrational. When you figure out how we can collectively lower these rates, sign me up. In the meantime, I'll limit my risk and do the bulk of my riding north of the city.

Cheers.

There is an insurance cycle of hard and soft markets which I have discussed in other threads.

http://www.casact.org/library/studynotes/boor5.2.pdf

[Rotten_Ronnie]

Wow. You're right. It was a meaningless statement, and I apologise to the court and to Statefarm in particular.

Peace and I'm gone from this thread.

Cheers.

So you don't have any figures to support your claim?? Is that correct? An annual statement of earnings? A published news article perhaps? Go back 10 years and give us State Farm's Canadian earnings. The Freedom of Information Act should make that information accessible to anyone.

Of course they'd go out of business if they weren't making money. You didn't claim that they were simply turning a reasonable profit though, you claimed that "they're declaring outrageous profits". If you can't assign a dollar value to that qualitative statement, it's completely meaningless.

[LiNK666]

You better be able to substantiate a claim like this.. what were State Farms earnings for 2009 and 2010?

Wasn't able to find 2010, but here is 2009 http://www.statefarm.com/_pdf/SFyearPDF09.pdf

You're right they did lose money, but they lost money in Statefarm bank and Mutual funds. These reports are kind of pathetic and not transparent what so ever when compared to reports of other institutions.

To sum it up, their pre-tax profit is indicated as:
Property/casualty: $0.4 billion profit (I assume this includes auto)
Life: $825 million profit
Statefarm bank: $246 million loss
Mutual Funds: $33 million loss

Here is what appears to be their version of an income report or like they say statement of condition: http://www.statefarm.com/_pdf/2009annualreport.pdf

The biggest expense that's putting them in the red other than dollars for claims is the service and administrative fees.

Some more from the statefarm website:

State Farm reported $777 million in after-tax net income in 2009, compared with a $542 million net loss in 2008. The improvement in after-tax net income in 2009 was driven by the P-C companies’ improved underwriting results.

Auto – State Farm’s auto insurance business represents 62 percent of the P-C companies’ combined net written premium. Earned premium was $30.9 billion, an increase of 2.1 percent from 2008. Incurred claims and loss adjustment expenses were $26.2 billion. The underwriting loss was $2.7 billion.

Comparable 2008 figures were: earned premium, $30.3 billion; incurred claims and loss adjustment expenses, $25.6 billion; underwriting loss, $2.7 billion.

http://www.statefarm.com/aboutus/_pr...ts_improve.asp

I was unable to find anything specific about their canadian division, their canadian website kept saying to check statefarm.com etc...

Nothing on 2010 until at least feb or march, but there should be profits and they will be high.

[VifferFun]

Page 6 in your link shows a simple graph of underwriting profit/loss for 2007, 2008, and 2009 for Property/Casualty (i.e. Home, Auto, Motorcycle, etc. combined):
http://www.statefarm.com/_pdf/SFyearPDF09.pdf

Bear in mind the sheer size of State Farm North America when viewing these numbers. Although a $1 billion is huge in the context of a Canadian insurer, it's really not so big to an American insurer with assets totalling $100 billion.

[LiNK666]

Page 6 in your link shows a simple graph of underwriting profit/loss for 2007, 2008, and 2009 for Property/Casualty (i.e. Home, Auto, Motorcycle, etc. combined):
http://www.statefarm.com/_pdf/SFyearPDF09.pdf

It's page 7. It's where I was referring their income/loss from showing which areas performed in profit or loss.

Bear in mind the sheer size of State Farm North America when viewing these numbers. Although a $1 billion is huge in the context of a Canadian insurer, it's really not so big to an American insurer with assets totalling $100 billion.

Cool? But what people were saying is that statefarm is losing money because they are paying out more in claims than taking in on premiums. I wish there better financial statements so we can see where the money is going but I wasn't able to find it.

Anyways, statefarm as a whole did not lose money in 2009, but whether they lost money in Ontario is something I don't know.

[VifferFun]

Cool? But what people were saying is that statefarm is losing money because they are paying out more in claims than taking in on premiums. I wish there better financial statements so we can see where the money is going but I wasn't able to find it.

Anyways, statefarm as a whole did not lose money in 2009, but whether they lost money in Ontario is something I don't know.

I don't know if that is true for State Farm; however, it was certainly true for Kingsway, a purely Canadian company, last year (which is why they were taken over by their subsidiary, Jevco).