USA insurance

[macrider]

I have several friends in the U.S that ride bikes.
Everyone of them own 2 or more bikes, one of them has 5.
All of them are insured.
When I asked what they are paying they are saying $200-$400 a year per bike and the more bikes they have the cheaper the insurance is.
These are for sportsbikes and cruisers from Hondas to Harleys.
It makes me sick when I have to pay $1500+ (perfect record ,no tickets)for a cruiser and some young guys here are paying $3000+.
I would not mind having 2-3 bikes but I cant afford it.
Something is really warped with Ontario insurance.

[turbodish]

You're comparing Ontario apples to American state peanuts.

Some US states do not require any liability insurance whatsoever. In others, the amount of liability coverage required is absolute peanuts, so the insurance company's potential claims exposure is also peanuts in comparison to what can happen in Ontario. While it helps keep rates low, you're screwed if you're at fault for a big crash where people get hurt.

I personally can't imagine having only 20,000 in liability coverage, as is the case in several states or wanting to opt out of liability insurance completely as in Virginia by paying a fee (not insurance) to the state uninsured motorist fund just like we used to be able to do in Ontario until around 1980 or so, or as in New Hampshire where there is no requirement to buy insurance or pay into an uninsured motorist fund at all.

On top of that, a big difference between Ontario and there is that many states do not require you to carry accident benefit coverage for your own injuries if you're in a crash. Think about what would happen to you and your family if you were not only the cause of a serious crash that hurt others, but you yourself were also seriously hurt in that crash.

The minimum insurance coverages for most US states follows together with the maximum $ amounts that those minimum policies will pay out. In some states, liability coverage is optional, but if purchased at all must still meet the following minimums.

State name - maximum payout per individual injured/maximum combined injury coverage for all occupants in a crash/maximum coverage for property damage.
-----------------------------------------------
Alabama 20/40/10
Alaska 50/100/25
Arizona 15/30/10
Arkansas 25/50/25
California 15/30/5
Colorado 25/50/15
Connecticut 20/40/10
Delaware 15/30/5
DC 25/50/10
Florida 10/20/10
Georgia 25/50/25
Hawaii20/40/10
Idaho 25/50/15
Illinois 20/40/15
Indiana 25/50/10
Iowa 20/40/15
Kansas 25/50/10
Kentucky 25/50/10
Louisiana 10/20/10
Maine 50/100/25
Maryland 20/40/15
Massachusetts 20/40/5
Michigan 20/40/10
Minnesota 30/60/10
Mississippi 25/50/10
Missouri 10/20/05
Montana 25/50/10
Nebraska 25/50/25
Nevada 15/30/10
New Hampshire 25/50/25
New Jersey 15/30/5
New Mexico 25/50/10
New York 25/50/10
North Carolina 30/60/25
North Dakota 25/50/25
Ohio 12 , 5 / 25/7.5
Oklahoma 10/20/10
Oregon 25/50/10
Pennsylvania 15/30/5
Rhode Iceland 25/50/25
South Carolina 15/30/10
South Dakota 25/50/25
Tennessee 25/50/10
Texas 20/40/15
Utah 25/50/15
Vermont 25/50/10
Virginia 25/50/20
Washington 25/50/10
West Virginia 20/40/10
Wisconsin 25/50/10
Wyoming 25/50/20

[VifferFun]

This topic has been discussed to death -- if you're interested, please hit the "search" button.

[cbr125looksfun]

You're comparing Ontario apples to American state peanuts.

Some US states do not require any liability insurance whatsoever. In others, the amount of liability coverage required is absolute peanuts, so the insurance company's potential claims exposure is also peanuts in comparison to what can happen in Ontario. While it helps keep rates low, you're screwed if you're at fault for a big crash where people get hurt.

I personally can't imagine having only 20,000 in liability coverage, as is the case in several states or wanting to opt out of liability insurance completely as in Virginia by paying a fee (not insurance) to the state uninsured motorist fund just like we used to be able to do in Ontario until around 1980 or so, or as in New Hampshire where there is no requirement to buy insurance or pay into an uninsured motorist fund at all.

On top of that, a big difference between Ontario and there is that many states do not require you to carry accident benefit coverage for your own injuries if you're in a crash. Think about what would happen to you and your family if you were not only the cause of a serious crash that hurt others, but you yourself were also seriously hurt in that crash.

The minimum insurance coverages for most US states follows together with the maximum $ amounts that those minimum policies will pay out. In some states, liability coverage is optional, but if purchased at all must still meet the following minimums.

State name - maximum payout per individual injured/maximum combined injury coverage for all occupants in a crash/maximum coverage for property damage.
-----------------------------------------------

Who asked for heavy insurance in the first place? Sure as hell wasnt me! why people must be forced to pay insurance is beyond me... If you want your butt covered when things get bad go ahead and pay thousands of $$, but what about those who aren't fearful of stepping outside their front door...


I would LOVE to see how many people opt for insurance after 30+ years of mandatory insurance, if it we were given the option to do without.

[VifferFun]

Who asked for heavy insurance in the first place? Sure as hell wasnt me! why people must be forced to pay insurance is beyond me... If you want your butt covered when things get bad go ahead and pay thousands of $$, but what about those who aren't fearful of stepping outside their front door...


I would LOVE to see how many people opt for insurance after 30+ years of mandatory insurance, if it we were given the option to do without.

Again, discussed to death . . . hit the search button.

Home insurance is optional and provided by the same insurance companies who write your Auto/Bike; it is only made mandatory by the lending institution if you need a mortgage to pay for it. Once your mortgage is paid, you no longer need insurance on your home. On top of this, Home insurance isn't even regulated at all and insurance companies have a lot of liberty to rate as they see fit. Do you know many people who cancelled their home insurance once their mortgage is paid?

[frekeyguy]

Correct my logic if im wrong.

Ontario: You get hurt in a motor vehicle accident, OHIP will help out initially. Then insurance picks up the tab for rehab other expenses.

-> higher rates justified by the services you will potentially benefit from.

Stateside: You get hurt, if you don't have health care and a lousy insurance policy you pay out of pocket for your rehab etc.

--> Lower rates, but your stuck with the expenses

[cbr125looksfun]

Again, discussed to death . . . hit the search button.

Home insurance is optional and provided by the same insurance companies who write your Auto/Bike; it is only made mandatory by the lending institution if you need a mortgage to pay for it. Once your mortgage is paid, you no longer need insurance on your home. On top of this, Home insurance isn't even regulated at all and insurance companies have a lot of liberty to rate as they see fit. Do you know many people who cancelled their home insurance once their mortgage is paid?

I was ranting about auto insurance. Home insurance is kinda necessary because it is THAT BIG an investment. My $1200 cbr125 is not. Nor is my $5000 honda. It would solve many problems if auto insurance were optional.

[murf]

Who asked for heavy insurance in the first place? Sure as hell wasnt me! why people must be forced to pay insurance is beyond me... If you want your butt covered when things get bad go ahead and pay thousands of $$, but what about those who aren't fearful of stepping outside their front door...


I would LOVE to see how many people opt for insurance after 30+ years of mandatory insurance, if it we were given the option to do without.

Because if you kill or cripple someone and they sue you for millions and you don't have the money to pay them those people are kinda screwed aren't they?

After 30 years of riding you would lose everything you own, house, investments etc so ya I will keep my insurance, especially since it will be cheaper at that age.

[cbr125looksfun]

Because if you kill or cripple someone and they sue you for millions and you don't have the money to pay them those people are kinda screwed aren't they?

After 30 years of riding you would lose everything you own, house, investments etc so ya I will keep my insurance, especially since it will be cheaper at that age.

thats the thing though, we know the risks, I can live with them.I can 100% guarantee I wont hit or kill someone from my riding or driving. The roads are incredibly safe, why people cannot understand that i dont know. The roads are engineered to be safe, the cars are designed to be safe (not sure about bikes :P) and the drivers are licensed. Yet we still are required to have insurance. No amount of ranting will change anything but maybe someone with power will read this and give me some freedom in this free country...

At this point I dont care how expensive it is or what it covers me for... just give me the option to not pay for it!

[turbodish]

thats the thing though, we know the risks, I can live with them.I can 100% guarantee I wont hit or kill someone from my riding or driving. The roads are incredibly safe, why people cannot understand that i dont know. The roads are engineered to be safe, the cars are designed to be safe (not sure about bikes :P) and the drivers are licensed. Yet we still are required to have insurance. No amount of ranting will change anything but maybe someone with power will read this and give me some freedom in this free country...

At this point I dont care how expensive it is or what it covers me for... just give me the option to not pay for it!

The roads are incredibly safe, yet the other day a kid who took a car without permission ran into another car killing one of the occupants and injuring two others who had to be airlifted to hospital.

I'm quite sure that he too was pretty sure that he wasn't going to kill or injure someone that day. I'm pretty sure he never thought that he would be in the criminal charges jackpot that he's in now. After all, who in their right mind would go out and drive thinking otherwise?

Instead we have one innocent person dead, two more innocents injured, plus injuries to the kid, and not one of them went out that day expecting it to happen. Otherwise they would have just stayed home and avoided all the grief.

You're no different. Odds are almost certain that you will either hurt or cause damage to someone else or you will hurt yourself at some point in your car or truck driving lifetime, and even more-so on your motorcycle. When that happens, society should not be on the hook for the costs.

[cbr125looksfun]

The roads are incredibly safe, yet the other day a kid who took a car without permission ran into another car killing one of the occupants and injuring two others who had to be airlifted to hospital.

I'm quite sure that he too was pretty sure that he wasn't going to kill or injure someone that day. I'm pretty sure he never thought that he would be in the criminal charges jackpot that he's in now. After all, who in their right mind would go out and drive thinking otherwise?

Instead we have one innocent person dead, two more innocents injured, plus injuries to the kid, and not one of them went out that day expecting it to happen. Otherwise they would have just stayed home and avoided all the grief.

You're no different. Odds are almost certain that you will either hurt or cause damage to someone else or you will hurt yourself at some point in your car or truck driving lifetime, and even more-so on your motorcycle. When that happens, society should not be on the hook for the costs.

exactly! when ***** happens, take responsibility! Thats my point, if you caused an accident/mishap you incure the punishment. If you cant afford the penalties you go bankrupt or go to jail... I feel that this method of responsibility is better than having thousands of people driving without insurance and being a criminal because of it... It will instill a new sense of safe driving, if you screw up, you screw up big time... so in turn people would drive safely. It is as clear cut as that.

[Scudzo_2]

I was ranting about auto insurance. Home insurance is kinda necessary because it is THAT BIG an investment. My $1200 cbr125 is not. Nor is my $5000 honda. It would solve many problems if auto insurance were optional.

One scenario: You smack your $1200 bike hard into a $100,000 vehicle, causing injuries to car driver, motorcycle rider and passenger, and significant damage to the impacted vehicle. As your un-insured, what would be the next step for your corrective action? Seizure of all your other property?? Now your homeless and bankrupt, and the people that you caused injury to may still not have enough financial backing to get back on their own feet afterwards. All parties suffer.

[turbodish]

exactly! when ***** happens, take responsibility! Thats my point, if you caused an accident/mishap you incure the punishment. If you cant afford the penalties you go bankrupt or go to jail... I feel that this method of responsibility is better than having thousands of people driving without insurance and being a criminal because of it... It will instill a new sense of safe driving, if you screw up, you screw up big time... so in turn people would drive safely. It is as clear cut as that.

And what if you are unable to pay the financial costs arising out of your at-fault crash?

If the fear of death or painful injury doesn't make everyone drive more safely now, why do you think that the threat of possible financial ruin will make any difference?

Oh, right, your answer is that you declare bankruptcy or go to jail. That's just great. Now society has to pay to give you room and board in the local jail while you file for bankruptcy to avoid your responsibilities to the people you did hit or kill.

In the meantime, what happens to your victims, especially if you have left them crippled or if you have killed the primary breadwinner of a family? Oh of course, bankruptcy will work for them too, right?

[VifferFun]

I was ranting about auto insurance. Home insurance is kinda necessary because it is THAT BIG an investment. My $1200 cbr125 is not. Nor is my $5000 honda. It would solve many problems if auto insurance were optional.

You think your house is a large-dollar item to protect? How much do you think the lives are worth in the car that you just smacked with yours? FYI, human bodies cost a lot more to repair than homes do.

[VifferFun]

thats the thing though, we know the risks, I can live with them.I can 100% guarantee I wont hit or kill someone from my riding or driving. The roads are incredibly safe, why people cannot understand that i dont know. The roads are engineered to be safe, the cars are designed to be safe (not sure about bikes :P) and the drivers are licensed. Yet we still are required to have insurance.

Overconfident much? "100% guarantee that you won't hit or kill someone"? You think that people are safe on the roads because they took a simple test with the Ministry of Transportation? Do you not drive on Ontario roads?

You perfectly fit the profile of "invincible people" who cause collisions.

[VifferFun]

If you cant afford the penalties you go bankrupt or go to jail... I feel that this method of responsibility is better than having thousands of people driving without insurance and being a criminal because of it... It will instill a new sense of safe driving, if you screw up, you screw up big time... so in turn people would drive safely. It is as clear cut as that.

So when you hit another vehicle and paralyze the driver, brain damage their 14yo son, and kill their 12yo daughter, you can simply declare bankruptcy and get on with your life? Who cares about the other people, right? They knew the risk they were taking when they got in their car . . .

[cbr125looksfun]

fine you all win... Yes I am confident I wont crash. ever. It isn't hard to drive or ride safely. Even without reading the handbook or taking the license tests I havent learned anything more than I already knew. The only exception is the motorcycle riders course, but that was optional. You all have no one but yourselves to blame for your lack of confidence in driving safely.

Ill just do the next best thing and move to BC, i hear insurance is pubilc there and cheaper!

[cbr125looksfun]

So when you hit another vehicle and paralyze the driver, brain damage their 14yo son, and kill their 12yo daughter, you can simply declare bankruptcy and get on with your life? Who cares about the other people, right? They knew the risk they were taking when they got in their car . . .

enough with the horror stories, like i said we all know the risks of leaving our front door.Stop being such cowards and live your lives people! Id like to live without insurance payments because I can do wihtout them

[turbodish]

fine you all win... Yes I am confident I wont crash. ever. It isn't hard to drive or ride safely. Even without reading the handbook or taking the license tests I havent learned anything more than I already knew. The only exception is the motorcycle riders course, but that was optional. You all have no one but yourselves to blame for your lack of confidence in driving safely.

So you have NEVER had an at-fault near-miss oops moment when driving? If you say you haven't, you are either lying or don't drive.

Ill just do the next best thing and move to BC, i hear insurance is pubilc there and cheaper!

No, move to New Hampshire. You don't need auto insurance at all there. Then you can really test out your theory about how great a driver you are.

[turbodish]

enough with the horror stories, like i said we all know the risks of leaving our front door.Stop being such cowards and live your lives people! Id like to live without insurance payments because I can do wihtout them

Sure, and **** happens. No insurance for you means that someone else has to pick up the tab for the costs when things don't go quite as you planned. No thanks. If you are unwilling or unable to pay for the necessary guarantees of financial responsibility (aka insurance), you shouldn't be on the road.