GTA area - ICE roads/lakes/Ponds - SS. Riding?

[frekeyguy]

I got a ton of extra tires and a spare bike, I would like to try out the whole ice riding deal.

Where can I take my SS bike out to see what this is all about??

Any advise?

[Snobike Mike]

You can't be serious........

[woodzee]

Yeah he's serious. I know of a guy who's running a pic'd r6. I believe he rides around Frenchmans bay area ?? I do know that some guys ride on the east side of the island in port perry on offroad bikes (450's) have ridden there myself.

[Snobike Mike]

Yeah he's serious. I know of a guy who's running a pic'd r6. I believe he rides around Frenchmans bay area ?? I do know that some guys ride on the east side of the island in port perry on offroad bikes (450's) have ridden there myself.

Well that would be interesting to see for sure.

It must be quite the feat to make ice tires for a SS bike vs a dirt bike with knobbies as making a correct studded tire is quite the art form.

[frekeyguy]

Well that would be interesting to see for sure.

It must be quite the feat to make ice tires for a SS bike vs a dirt bike with knobbies as making a correct studded tire is quite the art form.

I have a ton of tires that are just laying around....I dont see why it would be so hard? I was hoping GTAM could chime in here as well.

If I goop the inside of the tires, would that not hold pressure?

Yeah he's serious. I know of a guy who's running a pic'd r6. I believe he rides around Frenchmans bay area ?? I do know that some guys ride on the east side of the island in port perry on offroad bikes (450's) have ridden there myself.

Thanks! I was hoping to find a spot around Brampton-ish area. Im not sure if my setup would work or not.

It would be nice to get out around here to tinker before going out spending all that money on gas to trailer the bike out there and find out I've missed something major

[john bickle]

IIf I goop the inside of the tires, would that not hold pressure?

Uhmm, there is a science to studding. The good ice tire builders use two tires with the side wall cut off to line the inside. The studs have to be a certain length so they don"t rip out becasue of the HP. In turn they have to bite into somnething to hold. If you just screw studs into a tire,, if the carcass doesn"t just blow apart from radical torque on the carcass, the studs will probably just fly off. The studs are also placed and angled for brakers and acceleraters. After all this you then have to mount it. My last ice tires used a bicycle tube for air. So you don't end up with much room or air needed. You coulld source a much lower profile stud but traction would be reduced.

[frekeyguy]

Uhmm, there is a science to studding. The good ice tire builders use two tires with the side wall cut off to line the inside. The studs have to be a certain length so they don"t rip out becasue of the HP. In turn they have to bite into somnething to hold. If you just screw studs into a tire,, if the carcass doesn"t just blow apart from radical torque on the carcass, the studs will probably just fly off. The studs are also placed and angled for brakers and acceleraters. After all this you then have to mount it. My last ice tires used a bicycle tube for air. So you don't end up with much room or air needed. You coulld source a much lower profile stud but traction would be reduced.

thanks!!!!

Do you have any sources that I can look at for studding tires?! I cant seem to find much about the do's/dont's of sport bike tire studding....

I was inspired by this picture....

[frekeyguy]

Uhmm, there is a science to studding. The good ice tire builders use two tires with the side wall cut off to line the inside. The studs have to be a certain length so they don"t rip out becasue of the HP. In turn they have to bite into somnething to hold. If you just screw studs into a tire,, if the carcass doesn"t just blow apart from radical torque on the carcass, the studs will probably just fly off. The studs are also placed and angled for brakers and acceleraters. After all this you then have to mount it. My last ice tires used a bicycle tube for air. So you don't end up with much room or air needed. You coulld source a much lower profile stud but traction would be reduced.

sorry. could you clarify this up for me.

the second tire with no sidewall/bead area would go on the inside of the studded tire?

Or would I stud the no-sidewall/bead area tire and put that over the mounted tire on the rim?

[meester_jamie]

sigh,, I tired it once... as that pic shows about 2" of tire,, there are over 20 studs exposed... so a tire that is about 23" will be 2PiR.. or 78" x 10 /in or about 400 studs in each tire

so... you need 1000 stucs ,, and alllll night long to drill the things in.... then 2 minutes on the ice for almost all of them to fly out! ...

I am sure it takes a lot of experience to stud a tire to work for any length of time

put the studs in the tire with the head inside... and then goop the tire... I think they race on the ice like that in quebec ! lol
http://rpmedia.ask.com/ts?u=/wikiped...nnmotorrad.jpg

[HawkEye#311]

A few of us SOAR racers talked about getting something going, like an Ice Trackday or something.

I did a bunch of research and priced out hardware for building my own set of SS ice tires.

Using a set of scrubs, 500 studs in the rear and 350 in the front, total cost, less than $100 for both wheels.

They will look pretty close to this but with a shorter stud and V shaped pattern that is opposite to the rain pattern.

What do you think JB?

[john bickle]

The seriously pointed studs are asking for something bad to happen.Scarry! I have not seen those only in the european speedway stuff.
Sure would hate to high side and have the bike coming at me.
The tire guys take a regular street tire,, cut the side wall off. Then take the tread part and lay it inside the tire you plan on studding. Two of these line the inside. You will need to run a tube to hold air. So the exsposed part of the stud is probably three times that inside the tire.

[Snobike Mike]

thanks!!!!

Do you have any sources that I can look at for studding tires?! I cant seem to find much about the do's/dont's of sport bike tire studding....

I was inspired by this picture....

My suggest is that you spend a LOT of time learning and researching about ice tires before you end up really hurting yourself.

Once you have a much better idea of what it's all about I'd then go to someone who has YEARS of ice tire building experience and buy a set from them.

Good luck.

[southpaw_1979]

They do race them just as you say. I have this pic that I downloaded a couple years ago. I'll see if I can find the source still

[reciprocity]

The seriously pointed studs are asking for something bad to happen.Scarry! I have not seen those only in the european speedway stuff.
Sure would hate to high side and have the bike coming at me.
.

Do you remember when Jeff Taylor(bodydouble dude) lost part of his hand and a chunk of his leg to a set of those Bick?

[frekeyguy]

Do you remember when Jeff Taylor(bodydouble dude) lost part of his hand and a chunk of his leg to a set of those Bick?

you scare me

[woodzee]

Well it's true, it is dangerous !! I did a 3 hour endurance race on a WR450F a few years ago and depite my crash we finished 2nd overall. We were up on Balsam Lake just outside of kinmount. A guy crash a bike with out wheel gaurds late in the day and his leg got sucked up in between the rear wheel & swingam. He was very lucky he had one of those orthotic aluminum braces as that saved the rear "chain saw" from cutting the backside of his leg open. He was lucky he was wearing that brace as we were too far way from any emergency care and probably wouldn't have made it if he caught the artery.

Don't get me wrong it's fun but you will need to do some safety precautions to make it a little safer as those tires are freken chainsaws.

That picture you've got of the rear would only be good on clear ice but any type of snow and you won't go anywhere. I've got a sheet around here somewhere as to what exactly this guy I know did to his R6. I know he mounted out Offroad nobbies and got the biggest size available for the rear 160 I think, and got the legendary George Jones to build his tires (not cheap but they work real good $800 ??) He also had to extend his chain to get the clearance for the studs, I suggested to him to make a set of gaurds for the rear & the front using the OEM mounts for safety (not sure if he did and to make a guard for the rad to protect from a stud that tears out (it does happen). Mark Douglas National Amateur 600 Champ back in 2005ish? studded up his race R6 to go and play on his local lake. He was impressed at the traction in the rear and carried a 6th gear wheelie across the lake on his R6. When he set the now stopped front end on the ground as it caught up to speed it threw a stud right through the rad and cracked the cases. Learn from his mistake.

I'd stud the tires as bickle suggests by screwing through the top of the tire with the hex screws (there's a science to this) as you need braking edges and accelerating edges. I'd steer clear from the Euro design with picks out

[john bickle]

Do you remember when Jeff Taylor(bodydouble dude) lost part of his hand and a chunk of his leg to a set of those Bick?

Ya, he was messed up,,,, and lucky! Guaranteed,,, there is no organization that would allow the European spikes to ride with them. Nor any guys racing for fun! Guards or no guards you could really hurt yourself or someone else. You want to have fun,,,, not look for a hospital ride or worse! Not to mention you can"t use any kind of tire cover so you will wreck more stuff,, garage floor,driveway,,studs,,pants,,trailer floor,,, lot more to think about ,, Geez,, imagine someone with those driving up the inside and over your foot!

[BnASoldier]

if your looking for a proper set of professionally built tires here is what u need...
they started life as a brand new set of rain tires (dunlop KR 244 and dunlop KR 844)..i used these because they are grooved and clear the snow well, which is needed so you can maintain contact with the ice unterneth the snow. also the profile is suited alot better for ice. then they were lined on the inside with extra rubber to accept longer studs to prevent the studs from pulling out. ( i havent lost a single stud from these tires.) the tires run without tubes and are not filled with any type of slime or BS tire goop.they hold air perfectly and do not leak. the tires are easy to switch on and off without messing around with a tube. i cannot remember exactly how many studs were used in the construction but i will tell you its alot. the studs are not from the hardware store and are ment for ice racing.



for more pictures check out the link below...i will let these tires go for $300 which is a fraction of what they are worth... the tires alone were worth that much. let me know what you think?

http://s1023.photobucket.com/albums/af359/bnasoldier/

[frekeyguy]

if your looking for a proper set of professionally built tires here is what u need...
they started life as a brand new set of rain tires (dunlop KR 244 and dunlop KR 844)..i used these because they are grooved and clear the snow well, which is needed so you can maintain contact with the ice unterneth the snow. also the profile is suited alot better for ice. then they were lined on the inside with extra rubber to accept longer studs to prevent the studs from pulling out. ( i havent lost a single stud from these tires.) the tires run without tubes and are not filled with any type of slime or BS tire goop.they hold air perfectly and do not leak. the tires are easy to switch on and off without messing around with a tube. i cannot remember exactly how many studs were used in the construction but i will tell you its alot. the studs are not from the hardware store and are ment for ice racing.



for more pictures check out the link below...i will let these tires go for $300 which is a fraction of what they are worth... the tires alone were worth that much. let me know what you think?

what size studs are those?

[HawkEye#311]

Okay gang, it's official now, you can stud your own sport bike tires and come out and join us next season...

I built the rear tire while in the SOAR booth at the January Toronto Motorcycle Show.
I had the tires mounted on the bike for display in the SOAR booth at the London Motorcycle show.
Here are a few of the quotes I heard those two separate weekends...

"I've been ice racing for years and...
"Ha, those won't work"
"Those are gonna bend"
"They will break off"
"Those are gonna tear right out of the carcass"
"Are those race tires? The carcass is going to crack up in the cold temps"
"You'll spin the tire on the rim"
"You need a bead locker"
"You're gonna tear the valve stem out"
"Ice tires are all about stud pattern" - This one I'll agree with.
"Building ice tires is an art" - Maybe it is, guess I'm an artist, who knew?

It was my first day out on the ice with my homemade ice tires and I think it went well, I learned how to improve the studding for my next set.
Still have all my studs, tubes are fine, no holes in my rad or cases from a thrown stud or scratches on my swingarm.
I didn't feel like crashing on the first test day so I didn't push it through the turns but you can see from the vid that I was going like 50 Km in the turns of their oval.
On the straight speed runs I had it up to 160 Km/h, 102 Mph on my speedo at 2:32 of the vid.
This vid is a split screen of a helmet GoPro and video camera.

Here's the video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQuujwos_Lg