Insane Rate Rant!

[AGAVE]

if its highway robbery why did personal lines insurance companies in ontario lose 1.7 billion the last 2 years. you people have no clue

It could only be one of three things if that number is real, either fraudulant claims, crooked business on the part of the insurer, or Ontario just has the worst drivers and thefts.
Bikes can't be compared to cars, i'm sure it's the thefts and accidents that have driven the ss insurance rates up.

As for cars, I have 2, 41 years old, clean record, my yearly policy is 219$, one way.
You'll never see that in Ontario.

[VifferFun]

It could only be one of three things if that number is real, either fraudulant claims, crooked business on the part of the insurer, or Ontario just has the worst drivers and thefts.
Bikes can't be compared to cars, i'm sure it's the thefts and accidents that have driven the ss insurance rates up.

As for cars, I have 2, 41 years old, clean record, my yearly policy is 219$, one way.
You'll never see that in Ontario.

Some of the main reasons why insurance (both for auto and bikes) is expensive in Ontario:

1.) Ontarians make injury claims where people in other provinces wouldn't. Ontarians take 13 times longer to heal than British Columbians . . . at least as far as claims are concerned.

2.) Ontarians lawyers up and try to get more than they deserve out of a claim

3.) Network of shady clinics exploiting the system

4.) Ontario drivers tend to be pretty horrible and inconsiderate

5.) The benefits provided by an Ontario insurance policy are very large

6.) Fraudulent claims by insureds


Each of the above problems are much worse in Toronto than they are outside of Toronto (which is why Toronto residents pay significantly more for insurance than people outside of the city).

FYI, theft claims for bikes will only affect your optional Comprehensive premium, not the mandatory TPL and AB coverages (which are the most expensive parts of your policy).

[85zx600]

if its highway robbery why did personal lines insurance companies in ontario lose 1.7 billion the last 2 years. you people have no clue

Why don't you ask them? i've paid premiums from $5000 a year to $2500 a year seince I was 16 im 23 now... Now if they are still losing money Im going to say the problem is on their end cause it sure as **** isn't on mine

[85zx600]

Some of the main reasons why insurance (both for auto and bikes) is expensive in Ontario:

1.) Ontarians make injury claims where people in other provinces wouldn't. Ontarians take 13 times longer to heal than British Columbians . . . at least as far as claims are concerned.

2.) Ontarians lawyers up and try to get more than they deserve out of a claim

3.) Network of shady clinics exploiting the system

4.) Ontario drivers tend to be pretty horrible and inconsiderate

5.) The benefits provided by an Ontario insurance policy are very large

6.) Fraudulent claims by insureds


Each of the above problems are much worse in Toronto than they are outside of Toronto (which is why Toronto residents pay significantly more for insurance than people outside of the city).

FYI, theft claims for bikes will only affect your optional Comprehensive premium, not the mandatory TPL and AB coverages (which are the most expensive parts of your policy).

I had 1 claim when I was 17, I was hit by a driver making and unsafe turn who was charged by the police, Yet somehow the insurance company decided It was 50/50 at fault they paid out a bit of money for my bike, Yet i Paid $5000 a year for the next couple years for insurance.

Now am I the only one who sees the catch here? How can you be losing money?

And if the insurance companies are losing so much money why are they still in buisness? Forgive me if Im wrong but if you're losing millions of dollars how can you still be in buisness? Wouldn't you have dumped the buisness long ago?
What a crock of ****. Im tired of being asked to fork over Piles of my hard earned money and being told oh its because joe and bob don't wanna get a job and goto work or in this case joe and bob made a fradulent claim and we want you to pay for it even though it has nothing to do you with.

Welcome to ontario

[VifferFun]

Why don't you ask them? i've paid premiums from $5000 a year to $2500 a year seince I was 16 im 23 now... Now if they are still losing money Im going to say the problem is on their end cause it sure as **** isn't on mine

Insurance collects money from many to pay out the claims of the few. That is its purpose.

[VifferFun]

I had 1 claim when I was 17, I was hit by a driver making and unsafe turn who was charged by the police, Yet somehow the insurance company decided It was 50/50 at fault they paid out a bit of money for my bike, Yet i Paid $5000 a year for the next couple years for insurance.

Now am I the only one who sees the catch here? How can you be losing money?

And if the insurance companies are losing so much money why are they still in buisness? Forgive me if Im wrong but if you're losing millions of dollars how can you still be in buisness? Wouldn't you have dumped the buisness long ago?
What a crock of ****. Im tired of being asked to fork over Piles of my hard earned money and being told oh its because joe and bob don't wanna get a job and goto work or in this case joe and bob made a fradulent claim and we want you to pay for it even though it has nothing to do you with.

Welcome to ontario

A company can pay out more money than they take in, but still have a positive ROE because of investment returns. This is not uncommon.

[caboose483]

I had 1 claim when I was 17, I was hit by a driver making and unsafe turn who was charged by the police, Yet somehow the insurance company decided It was 50/50 at fault they paid out a bit of money for my bike, Yet i Paid $5000 a year for the next couple years for insurance.

Now am I the only one who sees the catch here? How can you be losing money?

And if the insurance companies are losing so much money why are they still in buisness? Forgive me if Im wrong but if you're losing millions of dollars how can you still be in buisness? Wouldn't you have dumped the buisness long ago?
What a crock of ****. Im tired of being asked to fork over Piles of my hard earned money and being told oh its because joe and bob don't wanna get a job and goto work or in this case joe and bob made a fradulent claim and we want you to pay for it even though it has nothing to do you with.

Welcome to ontario

What happens when someone is in paralyzed in an accident and spends the rest of their life disabled? The insurance company could be on the hook for millions of dollars over time... If that accident was your fault would you want to be on the hook for that?

You could argue that the benefits and coverage in Ontario are too much and ripe for abuse, I would not argue against that.. But the matter at hand is that you have significantly more coverage in Ontario than you do in other provinces.. if you want to see lower rates, that is what needs to change.

[sonnythebull]

Why don't you ask them? i've paid premiums from $5000 a year to $2500 a year seince I was 16 im 23 now... Now if they are still losing money Im going to say the problem is on their end cause it sure as **** isn't on mine

I guess you are their only customer?
You should get a clue...insurance is a pool. It doesn't rise and fall on one persons claim record

[sonnythebull]

It could only be one of three things if that number is real, either fraudulant claims, crooked business on the part of the insurer, or Ontario just has the worst drivers and thefts.
Bikes can't be compared to cars, i'm sure it's the thefts and accidents that have driven the ss insurance rates up.

As for cars, I have 2, 41 years old, clean record, my yearly policy is 219$, one way.
You'll never see that in Ontario.

70 percent of claims are fraud. For example when the body shop asks if you are paying or insurance is paying and then they raise the price for the insurance co. And a million other examples of fraud.

[Nimbus]

You are complaining about a $1380 difference in insurance rates? How much more is a comparable home in Toronto vs. Newfoundland?

What exactly does the price of homes have to do with it? He's not talking about home insurance and replacement costs for them. As far as I know bike prices would be similar in Newfoundland to Ontario, either way they are imported to the country, parts would also be similar, only shop overhead would vary for labor costs as far as the bike itself is concerned. There is of course wage differentials which of course would affect medical and wage replacement numbers, but I'd bet they aren't as great as the premium difference indicates. Insurance rates in Ontario ARE a ripoff. This no fault crap ever since it got implemented has had us subsidizing pathetic drivers who should never have got a license in the first place. Their rates SHOULD be so high they can't afford to drive, but with the rest of us poor saps subsidizing them we have to spend our time avoiding the idiots to stay alive.
Go ahead, tell me I'm WRONG. }P

[RoadHogg]

And this is just 1 claim... There's a reason for high rates right here...

http://www.thespec.com/news/crime/ar...a-150-000-bill

"Give Me the Stats

The numbers are staggering. According to the Canadian Coalition Against Insurance Fraud (CCAIF), general insurance fraud costs Canadian insurers $1.3 Billion (CDN) each year. Keep in mind that this figure only covers general insurance fraud and doesn't even include the various other types of insurance fraud that exist."

[Platinum Cycle]

And this is just 1 claim... There's a reason for high rates right here...

http://www.thespec.com/news/crime/ar...a-150-000-bill

"Give Me the Stats

The numbers are staggering. According to the Canadian Coalition Against Insurance Fraud (CCAIF), general insurance fraud costs Canadian insurers $1.3 Billion (CDN) each year. Keep in mind that this figure only covers general insurance fraud and doesn't even include the various other types of insurance fraud that exist."

This number $1.3B has been used since the mid 90's. I can assure you it's way, way more than that.

[VifferFun]

What exactly does the price of homes have to do with it? He's not talking about home insurance and replacement costs for them. As far as I know bike prices would be similar in Newfoundland to Ontario, either way they are imported to the country, parts would also be similar, only shop overhead would vary for labor costs as far as the bike itself is concerned. There is of course wage differentials which of course would affect medical and wage replacement numbers, but I'd bet they aren't as great as the premium difference indicates. Insurance rates in Ontario ARE a ripoff. This no fault crap ever since it got implemented has had us subsidizing pathetic drivers who should never have got a license in the first place. Their rates SHOULD be so high they can't afford to drive, but with the rest of us poor saps subsidizing them we have to spend our time avoiding the idiots to stay alive.
Go ahead, tell me I'm WRONG. }P

The price of repairing/replacing bikes has very little to do with regional differences. Even the wages have very little to do with the regional differences. The BIG difference is litigation. A collision in Ontario (and especially in Toronto) is MUCH more likely to involve a lawsuit than anywhere else in Canada. This is what I mean when I refer to Ontarians as more "greedy" than people from other provinces.

[RoadHogg]

This number $1.3B has been used since the mid 90's. I can assure you it's way, way more than that.

Thats the only number I could find. I am sure it is way more.

[stormcat]

Hey Threadjackers! This is my whining thread! LOL!

Ok, so I asked another State Farm agent for a quote this afternoon. (The $1680/year was also with State Farm). This other State Farm agent quoted me $1000/year for the CBR, no multi-vehicle discount. What the...? Ok, so who says this ***** is regulated? Shouldn't rates at least be regulated through the same company? Logic behind an almost $700 discrepancy?

*shakes head*

[viper84737]

If you believe the numbers they spew out without looking over their balance sheets, you're acting like a good little sheeple-investor. If this is the case, I've got some AWESOME subprime mortgages to sell you, I think you'll make a killing if you buy them!

Insurance is the single most profitable industry on the planet, bar none. Ask yourself who the world's largest landowner is and you'll find that they provide "insurance for the soul" (Catholic Church, in this case). This is the same donkeyshit except instead of providing an intangible benefit of soul salvation "after you die", yes, real insurance companies do actually pay you *some* money, discounted maximally, of course, as their aim is to make profit, not "help out your fellow man by offering fairly-priced insurance" for egregiously overcharging you to put profit into their pockets. Of course they take that money and invest it on their behalf, putting more money into their pockets. Thanks policy holder! You just made us doubley-rich. Even though we paid out some money this year and took a hit on premiums vs claims, we raped the international bond/LIBOR markets with your dime for years, until we took it up the butthole when subprime collapsed and got bailed out by your tax dollars. Oh and yeah, we gave you nothing in return (AIG, UBS, the list goes on). Granted I'm told mutuals don't operate this way, much like credit unions, but you've only severed one head of the gun-to-your-head beast.

Insurance always has been since the very first day it was ever created (probably as an Options contract somewhere in some market), and always will be to the benefit of the seller, until you slam a couple of planes into the sides of buildings, and collect $3B for a specific clause in your agreement covering terrorism. And yes, after some argument in court, that's $3B per each building, like our good pal Mr. Larry Silverstein

It's made worse only when they deny you the option of participating, and mandate that you do by threatening to put you in a cage if you don't comply with their profiteering.

[sonnythebull]

If you believe the numbers they spew out without looking over their balance sheets, you're acting like a good little sheeple-investor. If this is the case, I've got some AWESOME subprime mortgages to sell you, I think you'll make a killing if you buy them!

Insurance is the single most profitable industry on the planet, bar none. Ask yourself who the world's largest landowner is and you'll find that they provide "insurance for the soul" (Catholic Church, in this case). This is the same donkeyshit except instead of providing an intangible benefit of soul salvation "after you die", yes, real insurance companies do actually pay you *some* money, discounted maximally, of course, as their aim is to make profit, not "help out your fellow man by offering fairly-priced insurance" for egregiously overcharging you to put profit into their pockets. Of course they take that money and invest it on their behalf, putting more money into their pockets. Thanks policy holder! You just made us doubley-rich. Even though we paid out some money this year and took a hit on premiums vs claims, we raped the international bond/LIBOR markets with your dime for years, until we took it up the butthole when subprime collapsed and got bailed out by your tax dollars. Oh and yeah, we gave you nothing in return (AIG, UBS, the list goes on). Granted I'm told mutuals don't operate this way, much like credit unions, but you've only severed one head of the gun-to-your-head beast.

Insurance always has been since the very first day it was ever created (probably as an Options contract somewhere in some market), and always will be to the benefit of the seller, until you slam a couple of planes into the sides of buildings, and collect $3B for a specific clause in your agreement covering terrorism. And yes, after some argument in court, that's $3B per each building, like our good pal Mr. Larry Silverstein

It's made worse only when they deny you the option of participating, and mandate that you do by threatening to put you in a cage if you don't comply with their profiteering.

Take off the tin foil hat. Ever heard of FSCO? And I'm sure the banks are the most profitable business .

[omnivore]

if its highway robbery why did personal lines insurance companies in ontario lose 1.7 billion the last 2 years. you people have no clue

I belive that what the insurance companies call a loss isn't a loss at all.
They earn 5 billion one yr. The next yr they only earn 3.3 billion, so in their eyes they lost 1.7 billion dollars.

[viper84737]

Take off the tin foil hat. Ever heard of FSCO? And I'm sure the banks are the most profitable business .

I'll take off the hat when you take off your blinders. I will grant you the banks bit, though. Same thing, different product

[sonnythebull]

I belive that what the insurance companies call a loss isn't a loss at all.
They earn 5 billion one yr. The next yr they only earn 3.3 billion, so in their eyes they lost 1.7 billion dollars.

You can't be this business ignorant. A loss means you lost money not you profited less than the year before