SOAR Schedule Discussion

[caboose483]

I keep meaning to start this thread but always forget when I'm near a computer.. So here goes. I don't plan on discussing when each round will be, I'm more so interested in the schedule for Sunday's finals.

I have noticed that Rookie and Nov600 both run before lunch. Being the two largest grids with a lot of riders doing both classes we have a lot of riders done before lunch. There really isn't any time for these riders to get new rubber mounted after practice or between races which makes tire management tough.

Nov Superbike and Nov/Ex Open Sprint are both in after lunch. The gap between these two races (my two races) is just borderline long enough to get fresh tires up to temp. At the last round I would have liked to flip the rear but the time to remove it, flip it and get it back on the warmer and up to temp wasn't long enough for me to try. Also, a lot of the riders who would partake in Ex Open Sprint don't because it's only two races before Ex Superbike which is the last race of the day.

My thoughts were that it would be a bit easier on everyone if Rookie was moved towards the end of the day and Open Sprint moved to before lunch.

I know Nov 600 and Nov Superbike have to be early to accomadate for the Provisional Expert riders.

Is there any reason why this wouldn't fly?

While we're at it.. does anyone else have any comments? I only really know of the issues that effect me and those nearby.

[kneedragger88]

Tell ya what. Take the schedule and make the changes your proposing then post it and I will see if it will fly and if not let you know why. Believe it or not there is likely a reason that it cant go.I dont really have time to answer each change and post, much easier if I can look at your solution and see problems rather than having to research each change. If it can be done without creating bigger problems I have no problem changing. Your biggest obstacle for Open is that its not such a big class therefore I can generally use it as a spacer for other classes with greater crossover.

[caboose483]

Ok here's my first stab at it. I guess it's hard to speculate exactly what classes we'll have next year. Will there be a Dunlop class? Etc?

Im open to criticism... just trying to start a discussion that hopefully ends in us all being satisfied.

[eastcoast_gsx]

Im open to criticism...

With your small brain, you have no choice but be open with all the criticism that must come your way

BOOYAHHHH!!!

Carry on.

PS: Your sched is now putting major pressure on the novice riders doing 600 and SB.

[caboose483]

With your small brain, you have no choice but be open with all the criticism that must come your way

BOOYAHHHH!!!

Carry on.

PS: Your sched is now putting major pressure on the novice riders doing 600 and SB.

Good point.

How about this?

[HawkEye#311]

I'm not trying to confuse things here but how about this one...

12 Lap Finals 10:30 – 12:15
#1 Novice 600
#2 Formula 2 Stroke/Vintage HW & LW
#3 BOTT LW/Lost Era HW
#4 Novice/Expert Open
#5 Racer 5/Nu Speed

Lunch Break and Bike Pick Up 12:15 – 1:00

12 Lap Finals 1:00 – 5:00

#6 Novice SBK
#7 BOTT HW/Lost Era LW
#8 Formula Femme/Dunlop Challenge
#9 Expert 600
#10 Old Boys Cup
#11 Rookie Challenge

14 Lap Final

#12 Expert SBK

[kneedragger88]

Some femmes run 600 so thats a back to back for them. Two of the femmes are on RS 125s so they cant run together. In 2011 the first gen SV is LE legal and many bump into BOTT Hvwt. Old boys are generally 25 plus bikes and the top three riders are also in Dunlop. Dunlop and/or OBC are some of the same bump ups into Ex600. The two vintages hopefully can seperate giving the riders a second class to bump into.
See not so easy. Help one group hurt another. No matter how you do it someone is ******, and trust me I hear all about it.
Not saying that there cant be a better way but dont think you have it yet.

[kawiridder]

i like #1 better,i also ran into no time to change tires...glad you brought this up..

[caboose483]

There are no women riding in Nov 600 (at least according to the 2010 results on the SOAR website). Also i'm pretty sure Dan, Drew and and Jim are on Pirellis.

I'll survive if Nov Superbike and Open Sprint stay where they are. I'll be nothing more than a grid filler in Ex Superbike at the end of the day with no tire left and no time to change it. Rookie and Nov 600 need to have a bigger gap between them.

Are you going to field a Dunlop class for 6 bikes?

[Brian P]

Some people might not like having Vintage LW and BOTT LW next to each other. Doesn't affect me, because my bike has more than two cylinders, but it could affect the EX500 riders. Yep I realize there weren't many this year, but I'm trying to drag a few more out.

Lost Era LW and Old Boys have some riders in common, as do Old Boys and Expert 600.

This is not easy to figure out!

[caboose483]

Some people might not like having Vintage LW and BOTT LW next to each other. Doesn't affect me, because my bike has more than two cylinders, but it could affect the EX500 riders. Yep I realize there weren't many this year, but I'm trying to drag a few more out.

Lost Era LW and Old Boys have some riders in common, as do Old Boys and Expert 600.

This is not easy to figure out!

I like Drew's schedule, made some tweaks. Is this any better? I know it puts Old Boys next to Open Sprint but i'm pretty sure there weren't any riders doing both this year. Switched BOTT HW and LW, then switched Old Boys with Nu Speed/Racer5

12 Lap Finals 10:30 – 12:15
#1 Novice 600
#2 Formula 2 Stroke/Vintage HW & LW
#3 BOTT HW/Lost Era LW
#4 Novice/Expert Open
#5 Old Boys Cup

Lunch Break and Bike Pick Up 12:15 – 1:00

12 Lap Finals 1:00 – 5:00

#6 Novice SBK
#7 BOTT LW/Lost Era HW
#8 Formula Femme/Dunlop Challenge
#9 Expert 600
#10 Racer 5/Nu Speed
#11 Rookie Challenge

14 Lap Final

#12 Expert SBK

[kneedragger88]

This one looks a little better. Race two needs the Vintages split. Femme if they can maintain 10 riders will run alone, being that RACE has now dropped the womens cup and nationals being a question mark that may happen. Dunlop will continue for another two years as long as Dunlop wants to keep posting the prizes.
The riders fron Dunlop that I was talking about that cam/will likely jump to provisional experts are Bentley Thislewaite, Jeff Morrison, John Spinelli and Richard Persad
Keep the ideas coming guys, even if we dont revamp the whole schedule it does help to get fresh eyes. Believe it or not every round the schedule goes through at least a half dozen people and still gets mistakes almost every round.

[caboose483]

Is this any better? Switching Races 7 and 8. Now it puts the Dunlop riders right after Nov Superbike instead of next to Ex 600. Going by the last rounds results, none of the Dunlop guys ran in Nov Superbike. It'll be hard to make the schedule ideal for the people riding in 3 or 4 (or more classes). Maintaining gaps between 4 races in 12 times slots might be impossible. However, look at the grids. Rookie and Nov 600 have to be split up, it'd be nice to have Open Sprint and Nov Superbike split up too. Talking with Mike and Scott i know they would have both ridden in Ex Open if it weren't so close to Ex Superbike.

For the women's class. I've always found this class (regardless of the series) to be the most vocal about complaining that they want their own grid. If they can consistently field ten bikes then that's fine. Even at Mosport this year I don't think there were 10 bikes in WCC. I don't care what class it is, if you can't field a decent grid don't expect to have the track alone. So long as the pace is compatible, classes with less than ten bikes can be combined. Dunlop + Formula Femme. Open Sprint + Heavyweight etc. NuSpeed/Racer5 obviously with the speed differential should be done by itself and it'd be nice not to have someone eligible for two races run at the same time.

12 Lap Finals 10:30 – 12:15
#1 Novice 600
#2 Formula 2 Stroke/Vintage HW & LW
#3 BOTT HW/Lost Era LW
#4 Novice/Expert Open
#5 Old Boys Cup

Lunch Break and Bike Pick Up 12:15 – 1:00

12 Lap Finals 1:00 – 5:00

#6 Novice SBK
#7 Formula Femme/Dunlop Challenge
#8 BOTT LW/Lost Era HW
#9 Expert 600
#10 Racer 5/Nu Speed
#11 Rookie Challenge

14 Lap Final

#12 Expert SBK

[Brian P]

I might run Lost Era LW in addition to Vintage LW but it would only be for track time. That schedule has them next to each other but as long as Vintage LW is first (which it is) I can deal with it.

For what it's worth, Formula Femme's equivalent at Shannonville has run together with Vintage Lightweight's equivalent at Shannonville (but if I recall correctly, only on long or pro track). There were a couple of really fast women in that class who obviously checked out and lapped most of the field, but they haven't been showing up at SOAR. For the rest of the class, it wasn't much of an issue. The women started first, the faster lightweights passed some of them, the fast women lapped most of the rest. On the one hand, it's hard to combine a class with anything when there is such a huge difference in lap times. On the other hand, if not too many of them show up (and Vintage LW has had the same issue ...) then it might not matter too much.

[kneedragger88]

All this sched does is switch back to back races from one group to another. Its me wanting some of this not the women although they likely wont complain.
Still doesnt address the Vintage nor the fact that they generally bump to LE and two smoke. Open just before OBC will just stop entries from the old fellers into Open makeing an already small grid smaller. Most of those guys do OBC first and whatever they might fit into second.
Like I said before this isnt as easy as it appears.

[fsilva_mcl]

With the new GB track on the schedule this year and everyone talking about how it is a superbike track. Would a lot of folks racing Noveice/Expert 600 enter Novice/Expert SBK with a 600? If not then Novice 600 and Novice SBK may not need to be moved?

[caboose483]

Open just before OBC will just stop entries from the old fellers into Open makeing an already small grid smaller. Most of those guys do OBC first and whatever they might fit into second.
Like I said before this isnt as easy as it appears.

Open Sprint was before OBC for 2010. If it's not acceptable in the suggested schedule, why was it acceptable for this past race season?

Races 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10 from Round 6 could have been back-to-back races for many riders. The Dunlop class was right before Ex 600 at Round 6, this suggestion is no worse and wouldn't change grid sizes from what they recently were. OBC was immediately after Ex 600. The most recent proposed schedule alleviates that conflict with OBC riders being provisional experts.

I'd like to see us come up with the best schedule we can. A lot of the problems you're pointing out are problems that already exist in the current schedule so I don't think they're grounds do discount a suggestion if its still an overall improvement. A perfect schedule is most likely impossible.

Is it possible to do a 3-wave start? I don't think i've ever seen that.. if that's possible could we move Vintage HW to run with BOTT LW and Lost Era HW. How would those grid numbers look? Would it be too many bikes?

[uber racing]

Would be nice to have a gap between F2t and BoTt lw since we run both.....

[kneedragger88]

I am not saying one sched is better than another what i am getting at is one correction creates another problem and in the end everyones suggestions are generally self serving. You are right when you say that there is no perfect schedule. I am just pointing out issues. We have had issues with EVERY sched we have used in two years. I may just do a revolving sched from round to round so everyone gets screwed equally.

[HawkEye#311]

Noooooo, Ken you don’t have screw any of us….

There were no Old Boys running in Open Sprint Last year, nor did any get a provisional expert bump up in either 600 or SBK.
Vintage HW & LW had no cross-over and a total of less than 10 bikes combined, none of which entered in BOTT HW.
There was no cross-over between BOTT LW and Lost Era LW.
So, how about this one…

12 Lap Finals 10:30 – 12:15

#1 Novice 600
#2 Formula 2 Stroke/Lost Era HW
#3 Racer 5/Nu Speed
#4 Novice/Expert Open
#5 BOTT HW/Vintage LW & HW

Lunch Break and Bike Pick Up 12:15 – 1:00

12 Lap Finals 1:00 – 5:00

#6 Novice SBK
#7 Formula Femme/Dunlop Challenge
#8 BOTT LW/Lost Era LW
#9 Expert 600
#10 Old Boys Cup
#11 Rookie Challenge

14 Lap Final

#12 Expert SBK