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So, first season, 12k under my belt. 09 Ninja 250R.
Just came back from a 3-day conference up north, so I rode up there, and back.
On the way back, got into north Brampton and encountered some traffic. Car in front of me appeared to stop/slow suddenly, so I got on the front brakes only to shed some speed. I grabbed at the front brake lever with my two-fingers and slowed down very rapidly, leaving plenty of room for me to ease off and coast for the last few metres. The front wheel did not lock up.
I've had this happen a few times before, with similar outcomes. Most of the time, I'm attentive enough to predict these situations, and I brake very progressively. It's these emergency braking situations that concern me.
Admittedly, it has been a while since I've been to a parking lot to practice these maneuvers. Probably not since July.
Am I doing this correctly? Have I just gotten lucky and not locked up the front? Do the problems only really occur when you grab with your whole hand instead of just 2 fingers?
I'm planning on moving to an SS in 2012, so I'm trying to get as good as I possibly can on my 250R before I do that. Will the "better" brakes of an SS be as forgiving?
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Last edited by joelsephstalin; 10-22-2010 at 10:34 AM.
I would say it's a natural to grab a little to much in a panic situation. This should be more reason to stay as attentive as possible with cars ahead of you. You should also get a feel for how quickly your bike can slow down and leave the appropriate distance between you and the car in front of you.
As for SS brake they are way less forgiving. Yes they are better but that only means they will grab that much harder. I have never been a panic situation where I felt the need to grab a hand full of brakes. That would almost guarantee an endo....and not they cool looking ones.
I've been on emergency breaking plenty of times. I usually just grab everything in. In my case, i got a bit more heavier on my rear, so it usually slides out (not intentionally of course). It helps if you have better tires. The stock tires that came with the 250 is really crappy, it slides out even on medium breaking. I can break a lot better now with my new tires.
Anyways, what I want to say is, I think you should get into the practice of pulling everything in instead of just your front breaks. You don't want to be doing a stoppie, or flipping over, since in emergency situations we tend to break harder than we have to due to panic. Its better to be sliding out a bit than to flipping over into a high side.
Sounds to me like you did everything right. Kudos to you. Riding an SS bike, which it sounds like you are ready for now, you'll notice the back brakes don't do much of anything. They are set to slow the bike down, and trail brake through a corner...which is a way to force more traction. Your reaction is exactly what I do. Two fingers front, rear (if necessary), don't panic, look for an escape. Your instincts are right on par.
It's hard to tell if you doing everything right or everything wrong (and been lucky) just from your description.
In principle you want to be able to use the maximum braking your bike has, but actually use as little as possible of it. Practicing in parking lots would give you a good idea of where that maximum is (in the dry). Use the front brake only, progressively harder until you feel that the rear wants to come up or come around on you. The trick to getting the maximum braking out of the front is to give the suspension time to compress and settle at the same time as you apply the brakes. If you apply the brake faster than the front tire can load up with the weight of the bike, you will risk locking the tire and a lowside. Or if you apply the brake too rapidly when the front has plenty of grip, the rear of the bike can come around on you before you have a chance to let up (endo).
Nevertheless, you can still be lightening quick on the brakes because you suspension can react very quickly too, but you always need to be mindful of the amount of tire grip you have during hard braking. That also means that in slick conditions, don't expect to get away with the same speed and force that you apply in the dry. Give yourself more room, and you can use some rear brake too.
Last edited by fastar1; 10-21-2010 at 08:50 AM.
There is no planet B.
Sounds like you did a 'panic' brake....not so much an emergency brake. I find that I tend to get grabby and panic on the brakes when I'm fatigued. How tired were you when this happened? Sometimes just being mentally fatigued (ie: from work) won't manifest itself in the typical ways so you may underestimate just how tired you are.
Considering that you stayed upright, didn't lock any tires, and didn't crash into anything...I'd say that you did it right, and are probably doing a pretty good job at this point. Especially considering that you're riding a 250 and the front suspension on those bikes are ridiculously soft and can be fairly easy to overload. Keep it up.
'92 gixxer 750 - JupiterOriginally Posted by Ritchard
This is a bizarre topic!
Especially this strange reply.
I never use the rear brake (most sport riders don't, except maybe to settle the chassis on corner entry when 8/10ths or above).
The front brake does 90% of your stopping! Cruisers too.
Guys you need to grab your front brakes!
Grab hard. Did you lock the front wheel? Grab harder.
Good riders need to know precisely how hard they can grab, and exactly where the transition between traction/no traction lies.
Find out on your very next ride.
The front brake shouldn't be a 'big mystery' to anyone!
And guys, please, no advice at all is better than bad advice.
Regards
Old Ninja, runs good.
Moderator
The first thing is that, if you think that you haven't practised enough recently, go out and practise.
In panic braking situations I've taught myself to get on the rear brake fractionally before the front, then ease off as the front brake starts to bite. This transfers weight to the front wheel, so that it's less likely to overwhelm the contact patch's friction, giving me maximum braking. I'm not any sort of superstar at panic braking, but I haven't crashed while panic braking either.
Morally Ambiguous (submissions welcome)
"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth." - Oscar Wilde
get ABS and just hammer the brakes every time.
Moderator
... and you'll take longer to stop than a skilled rider is capable of.
Morally Ambiguous (submissions welcome)
"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth." - Oscar Wilde
This.
The only time your situation happens to me is when I don't look far enough, or I get a bit throttle happy. Ideally, you can add a bit of rear brake to straighten the bike out, squeeze the front a little bit (to make the weigh transfer first & avoid it sliding out on you), then progressively squeeze harder. The 250 has pretty crappy brakes, so you need to learn to downshift while braking (even in an emergency).
They key to not having the front slide up on you (endos won't be a problem on the 250) is to make sure that you grab lightly first to transfer weight.
I also use my whole hand...2 fingers doesn't let me stop in time when I actually need to do an emergency stop. I'll probably start using 2 fingers when I change my pads & get better tires next season.
If you and Rossi are from the same bloodline then yes..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6kO6...eature=related
Entertainment for the poor, that's what my mother always called children.
I accidentally did a stoppie on my 125 before.. Instead of watching that the car in front suddenly stopped after starting to move, I was nodding/waving to passing motorcyclists. Lesson learned--focus on your riding and wave only when appropriate!
I'm unclear why we're talking about stopping, when the focus should be on avoiding. Yes, bleeding off speed is important, but you shouldn't get used to "i can stop quick" because a: the occasion will arise that you won't be able to stop in time, no matter how quick you can brake, and b: i very nearly guarantee whomever's behind you won't have your deceleration curve. Which renders all of your ability to stop quickly moot.
Amen.I never use the rear brake...no advice at all is better than bad advice.
1972 Triumph Daytona
1978 XS650 Standard (Now with more cc's and an uneven firing order!)
2010 BMW K73
I was under the impression we were just talking about shedding some speed, for the most part. I'm still not sure why nobody would use the rear brake or gearing down to do so. I do agree that the front brake should not be a mystery, though. No part of your bike should be a mystery.
i think only in pro vs a avg rider comparison ... if its avg daily rider vs avg daily rider with abs vs non abs bike you'll probably be better off with abs on ...
i know for me the ABS has saved my bacon a few times (albeit its been on crappy conditions like snow)
"Rides are simple, we all leave together we all go home together."
^ THIS IS THE SECRET RIGHT THERE ^
You can actually hammer on the front brakes quite a bit and there is a lot more traction in the front tire and stopping power than you think but ONLY if you preload the front first. IN an emergency you want to grab light to transfer the weight and than SQUEEZE quite hard (but smooth). The reason you will most likely lock the front wheel is braking too suddenly and not too hard.
On an SS more weight is on the front so rear brake becomes MUCH less effective and easy to lock up. Even on my standard before (Monster) the rear brake was WAAAY more effective.
Current: 2006 Triumph Daytona 675
Past: 2005 Ducati S2R 800 Dark
Moderator
Then take the time to learn threshold braking, if no other skill
Morally Ambiguous (submissions welcome)
"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth." - Oscar Wilde
not everyone has 3 hours a day to practice braking lolThen take the time to learn threshold braking, if no other skill
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