That was the impression I was under, also. Exactly the above, no deviations. What's the definition of "parked" in this case? Stopped vs Parked, that is.
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I looked up this issue before and I found that:
1. "Lane splitting", technically called "Lane Sharing" is LEGAL when:
a. a vehicle is parked on the driving lane(right lane)
b. a vehicle is making a right turn in the driving lane.
Therefore lane sharing on any other lane is ILLEGAL.
I'd find the reference but tbh, I'm lazy. I hope that doesn't damage my credibility on the issue=P
That was the impression I was under, also. Exactly the above, no deviations. What's the definition of "parked" in this case? Stopped vs Parked, that is.
Moderator
It's illegal. Best case charge is improper passing. Worst case it HTA 172 (racing and stunting), which one member here was charged with for splitting. IIRC he got off that charge, but it does fit the definitions in ONT REG 455/07.Originally Posted by viper84737
Morally Ambiguous (submissions welcome)
"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth." - Oscar Wilde
Personally, aside from the legal implications I think it's unsafe to lane split in an environment where 99% of the other motorists would not be used to this type of behaviour and would either swerve uncontrollably or end up with road rage and try to "teach him a lesson".
You would need an education campaign along with strict rules for motorists who decided to go agro on some poor lady on a moped.
... ah I miss Vietnam:
Moderator
Bingo. There are only two times that I've lane split, in the last 20 years. One was under the specific directions of an OPP officer. The other was on the 401, between 410 and 427, when traffic was completely stopped due to a serious accident and my bike was overheating. I was trying to find a gap so that I could pull off to the right, but traffic was almost truly bumper-to-bumper. In the second case I had people trying to block me with their cars. I was only doing about 10 Kmh, through stopped traffic.
Morally Ambiguous (submissions welcome)
"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth." - Oscar Wilde
I used to think like this until I was rearended. You may think you can react fast enough or prevent it from happening but all that means nothing when someone behind you isn't paying attention. No matter how much you pay attention to your mirrors you can't tell that someone is planning on stopping the usual 2 feet behind you or 2 feet on top of you. With the current laws the way they are even if I make the right judgement call and split to save being hit I could lose my bike and face massive charges if an officer sees me split. Tough call and it would be just easier to make filtering a legal option for riders as it is for cyclists for many of the same reasons.
I've had to get out of dodge 3 times. 2 for sure I would have been Pizza, the other one I'm not sure. Out of those 3, only in 1 instance was I the only one there. Plus even if one car stops behind you, you're still not safe. If the cars are stopped there is no SAFETY reason that I can think of not to allow a motorcycle or bicycle or scooter to slowly go to the front where it will be safer. It's as simple as that.
Gentlemen, gentlemen, what AdRath says is wise. There is no law a man will not break to save himself.
Fair enough, guys. Sometimes I wonder if I really would be able to get out of there fast enough/in time.
Moderator
It's wrong but I wouldn't have as much of an issue if I could stand in front of a Judge or JP and say my part and the officer got to say his and then judgement is decided; but have issues that the punishment (license suspended, car impounded) is already dealt out before any chance of evidence presented to an impartial third party. The current system is evolving into punishment without trial. The original charge is normally dropped but the punishment, and repercussions of the punishment, stand.
..Tom
turbodish, what's your opinion on lane filtering and lane splitting? Or will you reserve providing that opinion based on your profession?
Moderator
That's precisely what most of us, who oppose HTA172, are saying; bring on the penalties, but only AFTER due process has been satisfied.
Morally Ambiguous (submissions welcome)
"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth." - Oscar Wilde
My profession isn't what you apparently think it is.
Re splitting and filtering, it comes down to this. If you want to be safe regardless of type of vehicle, your movements need to be predictable and visible to other road users. That means being where other road users expect you to be. In Ontario that isn't lane splitting between traffic on the 401 or up the DVP.
A big deal is made by most here about slower traffic keeping right. A big deal is made about using blocking position to defend your lane space. In group rides a big deal is made about staggered formation so you have the full width of the lane to maneuver in if needed. How do you reconcile that with lane splitting where suddenly there is no lane space at all, and where you're now travelling faster than traffic on BOTH sides of you? So much for maneuvering room for you and predictability to others.
Filtering through stopped traffic to get to the head of the line may be less dangerous from a safety point of view, but it is ignorant no matter how you rationalize it to yourself. Why is your time more important than the dozen vehicles you just queue-jumped past? It also opens the door for vehicles other than motorcycles to do the same to you if there is enough room. How many here will appreciate a Smart car or Echo filtering past them to move up a spot in the line?
Some here will argue safety and not wanting to get rear-ended while stopped in traffic as an excuse to justify filtering, but there are other strategies to deal with that. Even if you do need to evasively move between cars to avoid a rear-ender, you can satisfy that imperative without heading right up to the front of the line.
Pointing to Europe is not very relevant. We're not Europe. Our road systems are different, our driver training regime is different, and most importantly, our motorcycle and scooter presence on our roads is minuscule compared to Europe. We're also not California - our motorcycle and scooter numbers per capita are a fraction of California's, and unlike most of California, the largest part of even that minimal road presence in Ontario is limited to about 6 months out of a year.
Motorcycle presence on Ontario roads is so minimal in comparison to other vehicle types that you can't easily expect other vehicle operators to adjust to "unique" rules of the road specific only to motorcycles. The best bet for survival on two wheels is to operate it as if you were just like the rest of the traffic out there, and make your movements predictable and understandable to other road users. Remaining in marked lanes, travelling with the flow of traffic, and minimizing your time spent in blind spots and immediately adjacent to other vehicles is predictable and leaves you margins of space around you. None of that is consistent with lane splitting at speed or filtering.
Turbo,
There is the paradox. Motorcycles don't have much presence on the roads but, it's discouraging to ride from a commuting stand point. Weather and seasonal conditions aside, if communities embraced motorcycles and offerred benefits to riders, such as free parking, HOV lane use, lane filtering. It might actually reduce emmissions and traffic congestion. Yes, I know there is "some" free parking and "some" HOV lanes available to bikes.
I just think the municipalities could do a better job of making things a little more biker friendly. Then we'll see ridership increase.
Moderator
Oddly enough, Toronto HAS given us free parking and use of commuter lanes. In return, some motorcyclists choose to park on sidewalks.
Morally Ambiguous (submissions welcome)
"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth." - Oscar Wilde
I will openly admit that my time is valuable to me, and thus I will take advantage of whatever opportunities I can, to get ahead. It's not my fault your cages are too wide to filter in between other cages. Furthermore, whenever cars DO find an opportunity wide enough to split between two cars, I see they take advantage nearly 100% of the time that I've ever observed it. Why shouldn't motorcycles, again? Given the above, it doesn't mean I sit there bashing and smashing my way through every miniscule gap imaginable simply because I'm the King of the Road and you peasants should get out of my way -- no, I do it when I deem it is safe and the opportunity to move ahead will make a marked overall difference in travel time and travel quality, or an increase in safety.
Yes, I tend to GTF away from vehicles as much as possible, because as we all know, their observation skills are pretty much next to zero. Better to move around/ahead of them when they're stopped and less threatening than when they are moving and watching Jersey Shore on their Blackberries while on the 401.
With less than six months' riding experience, on my first bike -- a 600 cc, 110 BHP crotch rocket -- I rode 21,569 km around North America solo in 2011: ridermike.blogspot.com
Don't let anyone tell you it can't be done, because I am living proof otherwise.
Space has a terrible secret. We are here to protect you from the terrible secret of space.
Rob,
I'm aware of some free parking but, it's not promoted or clear. At least to this non-resident of T.O.
As for the side walk, I guess when iyou give an inch...........
I just think Toronto and other larger cities can do a better job of making things biker friendly and in return, reduce traffic congestion etc. You points are well taken.
Cheers.
Well if I'm going to filter, I'm going to filter right to the front. I don't want to be surrounded by a bunch of cars that have no idea what I'm going to be doing. I go to the front and I'll be gone faster than any of the cars anyways.... so I'm not slowing anyone down. Actually to be honest, I am probably expediting the flow of traffic for other cars, because now I'm NOT taking the space of a car in a lane. Plus when I'm away from the "wave" of cars, I'm safer too.
There is no reason not to allow filtering. Cars are stopped. All we would need is a very limited news message letting people know what is acceptable, so they don't try to cut you off intentionally.
Filtering =
- Increases Safety
- Facilitates Traffic Flow
- Makes a city more motorcycle friendly for commuters
and really - there is no detriment to cars and larger road vehicles
Bingo, bingo, and bingo Metastable, you hit the nail on the head on so many points that the nail itself has disintegrated. Now if only someone with some ability to change a law had a single functioning braincell whereupon which we would be able to present this information to them such that some sort of positive change could be enacted. Whom can we contact to have this legally changed? Does anyone know?
With less than six months' riding experience, on my first bike -- a 600 cc, 110 BHP crotch rocket -- I rode 21,569 km around North America solo in 2011: ridermike.blogspot.com
Don't let anyone tell you it can't be done, because I am living proof otherwise.
Space has a terrible secret. We are here to protect you from the terrible secret of space.
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