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If Toronto and indeed Canada are so awful, then why do you stay? Seriously, if it is so bad for you here then pack up and go someplace you find treats you better. Please.
Originally Posted by viper84737
Thomas Jefferson said "When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty".
I'm working on doing exactly that, believe me. Thank you for your wonderfully well-thought out suggestion. Perhaps you should mail it to everyone who doesn't like someplace and wants to leave, but doesn't necessarily have the resources to do so immediately, I'm sure they will all benefit from your amazing reasoning as I have.
With less than six months' riding experience, on my first bike -- a 600 cc, 110 BHP crotch rocket -- I rode 21,569 km around North America solo in 2011: ridermike.blogspot.com
Don't let anyone tell you it can't be done, because I am living proof otherwise.
Space has a terrible secret. We are here to protect you from the terrible secret of space.
Another old faithful of that (if you don't like it, get out) sort is "if it wasn't for us you would be speaking German".
You are welcome. Anything to help. Maybe I can help with your resource issues, a train ticket is not that expensive....
Thomas Jefferson said "When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty".
Hey Viper, let me just first applaud you for having the patience for reading my really long two posts and to anyone else who does, I know it's really long, but it was one of those I’ve had it moments specially because I was going to go see my father at the hospital and I wasn't even speeding when all this happened, this is not the first time and the only situation, I think all the other situations I’ve been in with random people accumulate to this - work, school, public places etc.
I just want to say I really appreciate your kind words and support, it means allot! Specially coming from someone I don't even know, I wish the world was full of people like you who don't judge, rather listen and then are mature about their opinions.
(Shorter version for the people who dont want to read my long post, i agree it was way too long but i was furious at the time, sorry for that!)
As for the guys saying what I did was illegal maybe true in some places yes!, but here it's not entirely true or that big of a deal. The reason for me saying that is because the cops didn't even give a damn about me filtering when I kept mentioning to them that I did it i filtered and nothing else, and the guy accusing me of reckless, dangerous, careless and riding "Very FAST!" was not even in the rows of cars I filtered. "I think the guy lied out of his tail about the whole situation so i would get in trouble, because i don't think a handful of cruisers won't come at me like that if the guy told the truth, saying this guy just filtered through the cars, because then i guess the cops would have told him f off buddy click!"
Secondly I only FILTERED, I didn't do LANE SPLITTING!!! filtering is when the light is red, all cars are stopped and you drive between cars safely if you can to get to the front... I NEVER filter through more than three cars behind from the front of the line up, it is one of my rules, if its only three cars ahead of me and its safe and I need to get somewhere I’ll do it, and I only did it because I had to go eat, grab food and go see my old man at the hospital. AND FILTERING IS LEGAL!!! When it comes to motorcycles and unofficial rules "lane splitting is illegal" here.... if filtering is done with care no cop cares, and COPS ON MOTORCYCLES DO IT ALL THE TIME IN SUMMER!!! I’ve filtered in front of Markham police, and pulled up beside them, never a problem, done it in Toronto as well after cop on bike hand signed me to filter, then he filtered behind me, so wtf!!! It is not my fault some sob doesn’t know the customs of the city, and the guy who got me in trouble wasn't even a local. And in summer EVERY BIKER I HAVE SEEN DOES IT HERE!!!
when I pulled names of cops I know who are bikers from the local department, the cops there became even more friendly and started complementing my bike after all the BS they put me through, because of some a hole, I wish one of the biker cops was on duty that I knew ,I would have taught this guy a good lesson. There is a reason why I started talking to cops in my city during the summer and building a rapport, because the situation in GTA has come to a point where you need to for situations like this, which should not be the case, I shouldn’t have to befriend a cop and let him know im a nice person to feel safe.
what pisses me off, that guy came out of no where, swerving back and forth in to my lane, cuts me off while swearing off, then cuts me off again slams on the brakes, then I back off switch lanes, did what exactly defensive driving is, then he comes into the same lane almost coming to a halt and stopping traffic behind, I switch lanes and go past him, but he's still on his, ima kill you, you f ing"nigger" and other swearing spree (im not even black) (the cop that was in charge of the scene was black, I now regret not telling him what this guy said to me, but in the moment I was still trying to understand wtf I did to this guy.) he continues to cruise beside me harassing me and yelling at the top of his lounges and barely able to keep his vehicle straight, (I doubt he was ont he phone with the cops while he was doing that, he only called the cops, when he saw I pulled up in a plaza close by and I didn't let him get a rise out of me, I saw him skidding and screeching around, stops in a parking spot on the other side of where I was and that’s when he called the cops while parked, then he drives like a maniac swerves around and comes to me with his window down and cop on his hands free Bluetooth.
Then I decide to leave since I don't know what this guy is on, as im leaving slowly I come to a stop sign, I stop and cop cars come flying around from all sides, blocking the 4 way, cutting off other drivers and telling them to F off and take another way, and then coming to me like im a criminal and being very rude....if you want the details there in the orginal post!
So the moral of the story is it’s not okay for me to filter through 3 cars safely, which is considered okay by every cop I have come in contact with even these ones, but it’s alright for the cops, and this sob to break every f ing traffic violation to get to me, and talk racist slurs by the other driver and then be treated like a criminal for some rule I used that they don't even give a damn about by the police? Wtf the only real reason this happened was i think, that prick was having a bad day, and he was looking to f uk someones night up real bad, and after all this me being the victim I was the one who calmed the situation down, that is f ing retarded.
I learned my lesson, use the flip place to filter and then book it, and if anyone ever comes on you like this, book it, don't ignore it and be relaxed and stick around and keep doing what you were, because apparently that will get you in trouble.
Im never stopping again for anyone, after this, why should I work my a55 off to have proper insurance, registration and nice bike to only have that same system used against me, no thanks, following the laws in this country is no different than braking them apparently, and apparently you get caught and in trouble when you do, wtf! lol.
As for those saying filtering is illegal, what about times when morons cut you off at the traffic light with their huge suv to make a right turn at red light and for you to move out of their way, and then finger you to F off, if filter is illegal and I should pretend im a car, then no F ing car should try to squeeze past me, and cars still do that all the time, why no one pulls a gun in their face!
Im a born Canadian and I love this country, but the many people need to GTFO! Viper I support you 200% viper, and what pisses me of most is that what I did wasn't even that big of a deal, the last cop I was talking to he even said that, his words "so you just filtered?" me "YEA that what i've been saying no one listens" him "wow f man today’s not your night!”...
Viper you know the funny thing is how the western world tends to think the rest of the world is so backwards, look up the countries that have lane splitting and filtering legal by law, you will be surprised!
Im not upset anymore, the amount of support I have gotten from the few nice people since last night through, friends family and people I don’t know, is amazing, and I feel much much better! “this is funny but, last night there were guys going into a store,and one yells out “ yo they giving you a hard time bro?” “I gesture and say, yea cuz of that idiot, because i filtering through few cars” he and his friends yell “wow is f-ing BUSH’s the priminister now ” … I LOL , and then the two cops look at the guys like they were tough cops, then quickly looked back at me when the cops realised two of those guys were driving Gallardo’s. After that those two cops didn’t say a single world to me, they thought those guys knew me...wow it takes money like that for cops to respect citizens and be afraid of them!
The guy was not from around where this happened, even then the cops agreed after the sob made a huge deal out of nothing illegal. If filtering was illegal i would have been cited, one cop was trying to nail me for what ever he could, but he didn't, becase he like the others realised soon enough that i did nothing wrong, just got in the way of some prick having a mid life crises thi old guy was in probaly 49-55.
but you are right, some people might not know the area and what the "customs and practices" of that area are, but what im trying to figure out it this has never happened to me before, or to any guys i see filtering all the time, it always seems that bikers get in trouble only when someone's having a bad day, either a cop or some punk, no one really does it because its law.
That is a very ignorant statement to make i think, are you even Canadian? im talking several generational? And if you are, really that’s how you are going talk to visitors as a host of this Nation? You should instead be finding problems that are bothering your guests while trying to be a better host country and make it a better place so people die to come here, not the other way round, this is exactly what Viper is talking about, it's not the country, Canada is a F ing beautiful land, it’s the sick people here, who's egos are through the roof, are negative, racists, violent, uneducated, jealous non peaceful etc...No came to this country because they didn't want to, they probably came here because they wanted to it was a good place to come, but time comes when that same place can go to crap and then people look to find something better, its human nature, you do it too with your education, school, job, home, cars - bikes, everyone wants better for themselves and their family, but for everyone what they want best most is different from one person to another.
Like in my situation and my ideal career i rather live somewhere where the riding and driving laws are leniant and people are nice, and not care so much of how beautiful that place is or what kind of language or race they are and what homes look like because those are not even on my list of i care. everyone likes differn't things, but i can gaurantee everyone wants to be appreciated and respected no matter what, which we lack here ALOT!
Did you know, and this is somewhat embarrassing for us, that now New York is known’s as a friendlier city then Toronto? And the world HATES AMERICA...what does that say about Canada? Im a Canadian by birth and I don't want to live here anymore, not because I hate Canada, I love the country, I’ve discovered more places here than most, and I remember growing up, people were actually REALLY nice here, everywhere, I don't know wtf happened in the last 15 years, is it the food / water?
Point im trying to make is, no one will want to live in a neighborhood full of mobsters, criminals, and killers and bullies, when they are peaceful and caring, regardless of how beautiful that neighborhood is. Because you become like the people you surround yourself with. Im leaving Canada as well after my studies, I really don’t want to, but it seemst here is a huge division happening all over the world right now, there is a huge division happening of positive and happy people vs. negative and violent types. This is happening everywhere, notice it at your work, home etc, and it’s only going to get to the point where every positive person is going to get away from his/her negative environment, it’s the next step in human evolving, and it’s happening everywhere, so don’t be hating on a guy who wants better and a happier environment for his life. This is the future, where positive people will get sick if they are around negative people, and negative people will get sick around positive people. Even though everything worked out in my favour after the incident my gut was going crazy, i was feeling sick in my stomach when i got close to that driver... Do some research on whats goin on in the world, and this is not mythical story, its a true fact!
Viper don't worry, Good things always happen to good people no matter how much crap negative people throw at them, negative people are just humans with alot of issues and problems that they let build and then try to pull anyone in a better place of mind down the hole with them to their level of understanding but pay no mind few years from now we'll be in a happier place and where we want to be no doubt all the spiritually awakened and positive people will be.
Last edited by ETR; 12-09-2011 at 12:53 PM.
Moderator
Actually they didn't charge you, because they didn't see the offence. It would be virtually impossible for them to obtain a conviction, in such a case. It had nothing to do with splitting being legal.
Morally Ambiguous (submissions welcome)
"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth." - Oscar Wilde
I should like to point out that I'm not born in Canada, but I've been here since I was 4 months old. That excludes me from running for Prime Minister. The country itself is, by design, racist
Anyway, that little rant aside. Texas, which I rode through on my trip, is very biker friendly, and the people there are second to none, in terms of friendliness. I was shocked at how people would go out of their way to help me out -- I've lived in the GTA for 20 years (2 years in New Brunswick, and 8 years in Vancouver prior to that) and this is unheard of beyond the reach of any imagination (their friendliness in Texas). California is very, very biker-friendly, except bikes can't park anywhere for free, which is the one thing Toronto has that other places don't. Angelinos (people from LA) are uncaring like in Toronto, but not as hostile at all. This isn't a grass-is-greener effect, either, it was EVERYWHERE I WENT IN AMERICA this summer. 22,000 km (including Vancouver, where people were almost as moronic as they are in Toronto, granted it was Game 6 of the Stanley Cup Final, so people were probably drunk and rowdy). I'm not saying you wouldn't experience that in America, but wow, riding through every nook and cranny of that country changed my perception of Americans entirely. FAR, far friendlier than Torontonians by a lightyear.
I've also been to New York City (though not on my trip), and when I was there in 2008, I was surprised by people's friendliness. How can I, a life-long Canadian, having lived literally across the lands of this so-called great country, be shocked at people's friendliness in America? It exceeded what I got at home. Granted, not every place was paradise -- Atlanta was an unfriendly craphole -- Anyway, the only people coming to the defense of Torontonians are people who've never been elsewhere and have known nothing other than the Toronto experience. Europeans, far, far friendlier, certainly the ones whom I've met here. No, Torontonians are an embarrassment to the idea of friendliness, and anyone who disagrees is either delusional or in complete denial, or simply hasn't seen it for what it really is. I pretty much rant about this on every thread, and it's getting tiring, heh
I had a similar experience from a jackass in a van last week. I was driving a car, and someone cut me off and when I tried to go around him twice, he blocked me (like the kind of blocking you're not allowed to do in Formula 1 when someone tries to pass you) twice, and also slammed on his brakes. This was on the QEW at ~100 km/h speeds in moderately dense traffic -- highly dangerous, very violent and aggressive behavior. I wonder if it was the same guy (brown van, I called in his plates, don't remember them offhand). He tried to get me to pull over and I had somewhere to be, or else I'd have clubbed him like a baby seal for endangering my life and the lives of my passengers as he did. Welcome to Toronto.
This all being said, there are some good ones here, too, but they're just few and far between, I find. Especially those capable of critical thought based on sound ideas, rather than knee-jerk responses to inputs.
And my last point/observation here is about 10-15 years ago. I also noticed things have been getting more and more hostile, and not the other way around. My money's on the economic circumstances getting worse over that same time period, even though people didn't really notice it until it was in the news in 2008. This is due to the unchanging Canadian mentality of "just stfu and grab your ankles, it'l be ok". Again, meant for another thread. Point is: our balls are being economically squeezed and we're becoming silently angrier people.
So yeah, lane-splitting and filtering.
With less than six months' riding experience, on my first bike -- a 600 cc, 110 BHP crotch rocket -- I rode 21,569 km around North America solo in 2011: ridermike.blogspot.com
Don't let anyone tell you it can't be done, because I am living proof otherwise.
Space has a terrible secret. We are here to protect you from the terrible secret of space.
Wholy Walls of Text
This post does not provide any legal advice and readers should consult with their own lawyer for legal advice.
You are right about that too, but if that was the only reason, the cops would not bother coming in the first place yes no?, specially since we were on private property where they can't give tickets anyways, so i knew from the get go i wasn't going to get charged with anything, but im just saying, when i explained to the cops how my filtering may have peed that guy off, their "body language" was (wtf we came all the way for this crap, because some guy filtered), i know that guy lied to the police thats what im trying to get him for among other things, he falsy used the system and lied which is a criminal act!
Cops only rush in like that if someone tells the police their life is in danger and someone is trying to kill or hurt them etc etc, i've been in similar situation where i called the cops when i was in a similar sitation in a car, those people cutting people off and then smashing my window, when i tried to tell them take it easy.... and one cop showed up after 1 hour when i told them these guys were following me and thretening me and smashed my window, the crazy guys in the car were long gone, and cop said theres nothing he could do....thats why i never call the police after that again, the only person who lost was me, and i got the stick end again.
As for getting citation for filtering, no cop will do that unless you filter him and he is in the first of the line right behind you, but who would ever really do that?
I know cops in GTA will not give a dam about something that is not clearly stated in a law legal or illegal, because they don't want the hassle to prove something they might not be able to and for something so small, when they could instead easily pull a car over for speeding or running another everyday violation which is an easy feed because the law for those are clearly stated. I have yet to see someone get a ticket that says on it, violation to this act, because of filtering.i
And thats if the cop even knows the correct term, if the cop puts the generic term lane splitting, he'd be wrong in court as well because those are two different things, and if its filtering he cites you for, just take a go pro, ride around downtown, and get a biker or cop biker filtering, take the video burn it on cd and take it to court, case closed.lol
my mission in 2012 summer, im going to get as many cops on motocycles on my Go pro filtering and then save them on like a 100 cd's.LOL that way i can have one on me all the time in case i get pulled for it, and just give them a cd to educate them or show proof, so some ignorant sob doesn't try to pull a fast on me like this again. You never know if we all did this, the government might finally cave in and let atleast filtering be okay, i don't care so much about lane splitting, which is when both bike and cars are moving, because thats dangerous anyways since most drivers here can't drive safely anyways, but filtering should be allowed i think.
Not sayin you are wrong, because you are right aswell, but i don't think people really care too much about filtering, from my experience i know cops let it go.
You're way off on that. Do you think that getting off the road somehow gives you sanctuary? You can be charged for a traffic offence that occurred on the road, regardless of where you finally land when the cop actually gets you stopped.
Have you ever stopped to think about what it is about your driving that makes other people extraordinarily angry to such a point?
g4getmoney?
Are you going to video cops speeding? Driving on the shoulder? Going through red lights? Maybe even driving around with their sirens and red lighst on? Oh wait! They're allowed to in certain circumstance. You are not.
g4getmoney
Last edited by turbodish; 12-09-2011 at 05:59 PM.
Moderator
ETR has a strong point. I have seen the exact same kind of freak-out behavoiurs by drivers in the GTA many times, whether on my bike or in a car.
A couple of incidents this year:
Driving southboudn on Bathurst St towards Davis Drive. A guy i na PT cruiser was driving in the left lane at about 10kph under the speed that most traffice drives at (and where tickets tend to start up here.) I was going about 7 or 8kph faster than him in the right lane (where we are supposed to drive when not passing!) There was transport truck ahead about 200 meters. I went by him and moved over to the left lane to pass the truck. I was not even close to him.. maybe 100 meters in front when I movedto the left (and I ALWAYS sginal turns and lane changes.) When I looked into he mirror he was giving me the finger big time and started speeding and got on my tail liek he was going t o ram me, all the time giving me the finger. At the next light he pulls up beside me and rolls down his window and starts cursing and swearing at me for passing him! I don't mean light swearing..but totally bent out of shap F'infg this and f'ing that. His main issue seemed to be that he was going above the limit and I had no right to pass him! And again, it was not even close distance wise when I passed.
A few weeks so ago I was riding into work and a girl in a Honda car makes a right turn into lane in front of me from a red light (going the same direction.) I sensed it coming and went by her on the acceleration lane on the right (my other choice would be to slam on the brake and risk getting rear ended or to hit her. At the next light as she goes by she is giving me the finger, taking a picture of my plate (while she was driving) and cursed something out the window at me. She almost casues a crash and got bent out of shape at me.
These things aren't unusual and I see them regularilly so generally don't take notice of them.
Kudos to ETR for posting about this!
..Tom
2006 V-Strom DL650 * 202,000 km 125,500 miles * 2012 V-Strom DL650 *
Ride Ride Ride!
Why Cars don't see bikes (SMIDSY)
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The police came because, based on the report they received, you might have been behaving badly enough to warrant a criminal charge or, at least, a HTA 172 charge. For either they would not need to have seen the incident, themselves, but could rather rely upon witness testimony. Such a witness must be reliable, which someone who sees more than is going on is not. Beyond that they could have charged you for lane splitting, which MOST CERTAINLY IS ILLEGAL, but they would not obtain a conviction without having seen the acts themselves.
Morally Ambiguous (submissions welcome)
"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth." - Oscar Wilde
Good story...
This is one of the reason I ALWAYS have a camera recording everything I do on the road. 99.9% of the time it's boring video but it's all worth it when I catch something I will want a record of.
"I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
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What I don't get is why there is a new thread every week about lane splitting.
Why do people feel the need to justify their lane splitting/filtering on this board? its ridiculous.
Its illegal, you do it at your own risk (safety and legal sanction) but its not like there is some great moral battle here.
I speed a lot and I done plenty of things that are illegal, I accept that I may get a ticket. But I don't understand why some feel the need to come here to get their peers to agree that its ok like it makes a difference.
This post does not provide any legal advice and readers should consult with their own lawyer for legal advice.
Kind of like the same way you gravitate to lane splitting / filtering threads to insist it is illegal and demand it be known you veiw their perspective as wrong. You could let it go too, and let the culture gravitate to acceptance, but you like to make your grand stand. So to each their own. After all in here it's just talk and not the actual act, be it illegal or not.
Whether something is illegal or not isn't about culture. You are full of **** and you spread misinformation. I correct that misinformation as a service to the community.
I couldn't care less if you do it or don't do it, but don't come here, say something that is clearly false, and expect that your opinion which is based on nothing but the air that comes out of your *** is on the same level as the people who have a track record of knowing what they are talking about.
This post does not provide any legal advice and readers should consult with their own lawyer for legal advice.
First of all, you're insane, law is ENTIRELY ABOUT CULTURE AND SOCIALLY ACCEPTED NORMS, unless you find laws are based on Godly decrees, which in today's humanist culture they are NOT. Laws are dictated by various forms of culture, from the response to mass cultural behavior, to the notion that we instill certain members of our society with culturally accepted status to create bills. Seriously you offer astonishingly little in the way of analysis in almost every statement you make, and make horrendous sweeping generalizations.
Buddy you have a serious authority complex. No one's view is right but your own, we get it. You think you're doing us all a favour, we get it. Some of us come here to ruminate or chat or air out ideas, thoughts, not you, you come here to set the community straight and correct all us idiots. Bravo, you're a champion of authority in this deluded forum. Please stay vigilant, and don't ever let us have an opinion, and please please put us in our place with sarcastic, exaggerated cheap shots with little or no substance to support them, while claiming in those instances it is not your duty to inform, simply that we should be honoured by your gracious insistence that we are wrong.
You have issues man, maybe high blood pressure, who knows, but you're an angry stressed over the top dude. Let the OP share his experience without your condescension. You made your points on other filtering threads but you just can't leave this expressive guy alone.
Yeah yeah I'm full of whatever....standard stuff from you. No one wonder people feel the way they do about lawyers.
I am seriously doubting your claimed legal credentials when it seems to baffle you as to why anyone would "battle" to have a view or law or social norm accepted. Laws are inflexible and timeless? No one can ever dispute a law once it is written? This confuses you why or how an issue can catalyze among common people sharing an idea and rise to challenge a law? How are laws even created? Bills? Are these bills not created by elected officials operating in the context of contemporary society, thought, and norms, who reflect what their society accepts? There was a time when female topless nudity was illegal, sodomy was illegal, and yet now you are confused as to how or why they are no longer illegal? And you're a lawyer? If confuses you as to why a substantial portion of the community feel that it may not be illegal and if it is indeed illegal to filter, they hope to have that changed? Really this whole process of societal participation in the cumulative legal process, growing organically from discussions such as these, is foreign to you? Ah yes but you did assure us you are qualified to dictate one liner legal decrees to us, yes you did do that. Why the F would I hire someone like you to defend any case, you would simply throw it back in the defendant's face that they were doing something illegal and tell them why even try to change things, the law is the law. But maybe you’re on the other side of the court, neither capable of judging between scenarios, nor capable of defending....you have a certain aggression and tack that speaks to a narrow single minded approach, a patronizing oppressive approach.But I don't understand why some feel the need to come here to get their peers to agree that its ok like it makes a difference.
Last edited by awyala; 12-10-2011 at 04:19 AM.
Moderator
And the "socially accepted norm", in law and supported by voluminous case law, is that lane splitting is illegal.
This is done, before someone believes you and gets screwed by it.
Morally Ambiguous (submissions welcome)
"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth." - Oscar Wilde
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