Caledon noise by-law meeting Tues. Oct.5th 7:00pm

[YZFrider]

Not sure what its worth - but I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents:
I find many motorcycles obnoxiously loud (including my own recently purchased bike) and I entirely sympathize with folks who live in areas where there are a lot of riders passing by. I see no need to have such loud machines and I see no problem with a limit on the noise produced by all personal vehicles.
We engage in a sport (for many of us it is largely a recreational/luxury activity) that is inherently selfish and damaging to the environment. Why do we need to defend our "rights" to interfere with the lives of other people? It is selfish to barge in on the sonic environment of other people for our own personal enjoyment.

no matter what some say, smart riding saves lives - not loud pipes! (though I concede that there might be issues with silent electric bikes).

bring on the restrictions, I say! in fact - perhaps they are even too lax.....

I expect that I might take a bit of heat for all this - and I am interested in hearing thoughtful disagreements (not reactionary flaming).

warm regards,
Ian

[Rob MacLennan]

I have lived in Caledon for over 16 years and been involved in various community initiatives during that time, so I have some sliver of insight into the community.
Caledon is an absolute hotbed of NIMBYism and hypocrisy, particularly when it comes to protecting their individual slices of "heaven". While I agree wholeheartedly that loud pipes are a problem and should be dealt with, I also firmly believe that it will not stop there. Belfountain will not be happy until bikes are banned altogether. Many residents have stated this publically; look through the archives of the Caledon Enterprise for the articles. Kind words on an e-petition don't mean much in the face of their past vitriol.
This by-law will happen and it won't affect most of us. For now. But it's just the top of a very slippery slope.

And there's one reason why we have to get on-board when REASONABLE standards are put forth; it gives us a leg to stand on when the UNREASONABLE ones are suggested. It is quite possible to put walls along that 'slippery slope.'

[djltoronto]

mart riding saves lives - not loud pipes! (though I concede that there might be issues with silent electric bikes).

So, your view is more that loud pipes don't save lives, but quiet bikes may be silent killers??

[Brian P]

I am fine with the bylaw "as written", but djltoronto, your amendments make sense not only for that particular Triumph model but also for a good many vintage bikes.

Even without those suggestions, the CVMG tested quite a number of vintage bikes in various configurations, and provided that they have at least some sort of decent muffler, there is basically no problem, even without SAE's recommended 2dB "padding" of stock exhaust systems to ensure that they pass. Full report here http://www.cvmg.ca/Default.aspx?pageId=771305

I've had all of my own bikes tested. They all pass, although one of them is by only 1 dB at 5000 rpm (same bike passed the idle test by a wide margin). I'm likely going to buy an otherwise similar but 2 inch longer Hindle muffler for that bike, to add some extra muffler volume, "just to be sure".

[Ariceff]

biggest thing sticking out in my head, this may be a stupid question but, how can they assure that bikes without tachs are being tested at the proper rpm, or even close? could this become a loop hole for fighting tickets, saying that theres no way to prove you were really at 5k rpm and were possibly higher? also could cops take advantage of you not having a tach and run it to redline saying they think thats where 5k would be, or is there some way to easily and reliably determine a bikes rpm?
appreciate any replys

[xskipro]

Well I can't wait to see this get challenged in court. Hopefully the town blows their wad on all the gadets required to enforce this and someone challenges it and wins....

[Sundie]

Easiest way to deal with that is to have an rpm sensor on the spark plug wire, same as at the dyno. Until diesel bikes come along, that is.

[Brian P]

If they have the right instrument - a "sirometer" - it basically analyzes the frequencies of the vibration and calculates the RPM from that. Also, a good many (if not almost all) bikes that don't have tachometers, have readily accessible sparkplug wires, in which case, you can use a simple clamp-on inductive tachometer which measures the frequency of ignition pulses. Just make sure it's the right instrument, which accounts for the "waste spark" system (one spark per revolution) that almost every bike uses. The wrong instrument (automotive style) will read double the actual RPM in those situations, which is an error that is in your favour, so don't complain.

The gross violators will most likely fail over the entire RPM range, not just at the specified test speed, in which case it won't matter exactly what the test RPM is ... If it fails at idle, it doesn't matter what the higher RPM test says ...

[turbodish]

I have lived in Caledon for over 16 years and been involved in various community initiatives during that time, so I have some sliver of insight into the community.
Caledon is an absolute hotbed of NIMBYism and hypocrisy, particularly when it comes to protecting their individual slices of "heaven". While I agree wholeheartedly that loud pipes are a problem and should be dealt with, I also firmly believe that it will not stop there. Belfountain will not be happy until bikes are banned altogether. Many residents have stated this publically; look through the archives of the Caledon Enterprise for the articles. Kind words on an e-petition don't mean much in the face of their past vitriol.
This by-law will happen and it won't affect most of us. For now. But it's just the top of a very slippery slope.

Every place has NIMBYism. Caledon's biggest NIMBY fight in recent times was and continues to be against the Rockfort quarry. Are you suggesting that because NIMBYism may be a motivating factor, that resident's concerns about Rockfort are any less legitimate?

You dismiss the kind words in some of the petition comments, but those words should carry just as much weight as some of the past vitriol you refer to. With respect to motorcycles, no doubt there are those completely against any motorcycles at all, but how much of their vitriol is due to frustration and the poisoned water effect arising from a few too many too-loud and/or too-fast bikes for too-long a time?

Get rid of those too-loud/too-fast bikes, and the bikes that remain will have no more intrusive an impact on resident's lives than the majority of four-wheeled tourist traffic visiting the area. It's hard to maintain a supply of widespread vitriol against the riders whose noise level and speeds don't offend reasonable sensibilities.

[Rob MacLennan]

Easiest way to deal with that is to have an rpm sensor on the spark plug wire, same as at the dyno. Until diesel bikes come along, that is.

Mine is a nice little combinations VOM and rpm meter that cost me less than $40.00.

[Torren]

Easiest way to deal with that is to have an rpm sensor on the spark plug wire, same as at the dyno. Until diesel bikes come along, that is.

You can still get an rpm reading from a diesel. Instead of an inductive lead clamped on on to a spark plug wire, you use an instrument to measure the swell on the injector lines during injection pulses..

[Sundie]

You can still get an rpm reading from a diesel. Instead of an inductive lead clamped on on to a spark plug wire, you use an instrument to measure the swell on the injector lines during injection pulses..

actually, it measures the ultrasonic ping as the injector opens and closes, diesel fuel lines usually being hard and no swelling involved.

[Torren]

actually, it measures the ultrasonic ping as the injector opens and closes, diesel fuel lines usually being hard and no swelling involved.

I thought the piezo transducer detected the swell (slight as it may be) in the fuel line. I was told that once, and never really had any reason to think otherwise. This is the unit i use and it states that it detects "surge". Regardless, clamp it on, hook up a timing light and there's your RPM reading. How it works is not as important that it does work

http://www.toolsource.com/tachntimer...t-p-92604.html

[jc100]

I signed the petition too but I do detect a little NIMBYism there. It reminds me of a story I read where residents of an upscale beach resort area in the US complained about the daytrippers cluttering up the (public) beach in front of their expensive homes. I wrote in to suggest that if the residents wanted to keep people off their beach they (the residents) should be denied access to any other beach in the world, such as the French Riviera for example. I think many of the concerns about noise are probably legit but as has been pointed out, many a time some residents in popular or upscale neighbourhoods feel some kind of rights to things that are not usually given to the rest of us.

[Sundie]

I thought the piezo transducer detected the swell (slight as it may be) in the fuel line. I was told that once, and never really had any reason to think otherwise. This is the unit i use and it states that it detects "surge". Regardless, clamp it on, hook up a timing light and there's your RPM reading. How it works is not as important that it does work

http://www.toolsource.com/tachntimer...t-p-92604.html

no it works like a knock sensor. i suppose it could be called a "surge". but the llines don't flex or anything.

[skip]

look here for the propsed bylaw


http://www.town.caledon.on.ca/conten...y-lawFinal.pdf

Garry

Thanks Garry. I'm glad to see that it was actually changed from its original City of Edmonton form to something that resembles SAE J2825 closer. I do not like more regulations, but I do agree that if they are determined to regulate then at least its much better to have one with a hard testing method and limits behind it that are reasonable. I have a feeling that this is going to crop up in other jurisdictions in Ontario so at least the Caledon by-law gives a sane model for them to use unlike some of the "only OEM exhaust allowed" rumblings I have been hearing.

[CanadianBiker]

I signed the petition too but I do detect a little NIMBYism there. .... I think many of the concerns about noise are probably legit but as has been pointed out, many a time some residents in popular or upscale neighbourhoods feel some kind of rights to things that are not usually given to the rest of us.

You hit the nail on the head. Whether it's motorcycle noise, quarries, traffic, transit or any other issue, some Caledon residents are very quick to pull up the drawbridge and say,"No, not here in our beautiful area!" This is after, of course, they have their own needs met.
Don't get me wrong, it's a beautiful place and we pay a premium to live there but the hypocrisy can be a little frustrating at times.

[Scob]

Get rid of those too-loud/too-fast bikes, and the bikes that remain will have no more intrusive an impact on resident's lives than the majority of four-wheeled tourist traffic visiting the area. It's hard to maintain a supply of widespread vitriol against the riders whose noise level and speeds don't offend reasonable sensibilities.

I'm betting that if given the chance, they would like to get rid of all the cars driving through as well. I lived in "the Beach" for many years and the number one complaint was about all the people coming down to "our" beach.

Yes, we paid a premium to live there (house prices, lack of parking, etc.) but anyone who believes they "own" an area because they happen to have a home there is a bit delusional.

[YZFrider]

So, your view is more that loud pipes don't save lives, but quiet bikes may be silent killers??

All I'm saying is that we don't need to blast other drivers with noise in order to get noticed for safety - there must be a middle road.

[Boosh63]

At the risk of coming across as a judgmental SOB, I will say that I find it particularly interesting when the 1st thing someone does is drop a bunch of scratch on an exhaust. "Look at me! Look at me" This seems to be true for both the cruiser and sport bike crowd.

I ride a 98 VFR800 and when I bought it, I opted for a good saddle and some good buns instead of a loud exhaust. I used to be glad that everyone was changing out their cans, it made mine seem unique! ; )

I don't agree with going out of one's way to make your machine louder. A good friend of mine removed the baffles on his Vulcan the same day he brought it home from the shop. I love the guy to death but really...