Who cares about the long gun registry?

[caboose483]

Which half?

The half that disagrees with me.

[mat2312]

I'm not defending the registry. As I said, I can see reasons for both sides of this debate.

I think the way the cops use it is like this:

"We've got a call for a domestic disturbance at 123 Anywhere St."
"Can you run that address and see if there's a firearm in the house?"

I could see this kind of interaction happening thousands of times per day.

Then you'd be seeing things incorrectly. The registry is automatically 'pinged' anytime a PAL holder has a check done for many non-firearms related things. The registry itself is only used about 15 times a day NATIONWIDE. Of course the CACP and other NGOs are going to spout off outright lies. The fact is the registry hasn't been proven to safe a single life or prevent a single crime in Canada since it's inception.

Any police officer who values their life wouldn't trust the registry as they entered a premises. As a PAL holder myself, I could have zero firearms registered to my PAL yet borrow one from a friend.

The registry is a useless inaccurate list which has had it's security purged numerous times. Only law abiding citizens register their firearms, they are not the individuals our society needs to worry about. We already have licensing which prevents dangerous individuals from owning firearms, the registry is just smoke and mirrors security for the emotional thinking latte sipping urban crowd.

[Duster929]

Then you'd be seeing things incorrectly. The registry is automatically 'pinged' anytime a PAL holder has a check done for many non-firearms related things. The registry itself is only used about 15 times a day NATIONWIDE. Of course the CACP and other NGOs are going to spout off outright lies. The fact is the registry hasn't been proven to safe a single life or prevent a single crime in Canada since it's inception.

Any police officer who values their life wouldn't trust the registry as they entered a premises. As a PAL holder myself, I could have zero firearms registered to my PAL yet borrow one from a friend.

The registry is a useless inaccurate list which has had it's security purged numerous times. Only law abiding citizens register their firearms, they are not the individuals our society needs to worry about. We already have licensing which prevents dangerous individuals from owning firearms, the registry is just smoke and mirrors security for the emotional thinking latte sipping urban crowd.

I don't really care if I'm seeing it correctly or not. I'm not here to debate the merits of the gun registry (so I probably shouldn't have responded to the previous post). Like I said, I've heard good arguments for and against. I haven't spent much time exploring the veracity or accuracy of these arguments, because frankly I don't think this is that important.

These arguments don't actually reinforce how important an issue this is. Why is this issue more important than, say, better support for the parents of autistic kids? Whether or not Canada should be funding trials of liberation therapy for MS patients? What are we doing to be more competitive in the global economy? Even issues that ARE in the news, like spending billions on fighter jets, or how to handle Tamil migrants, don't get the attention that the gun registry does. We have the PM flying home early from foreign meetings, everyone scrambling to get that one extra vote onside... Heck, I don't think the HST got this much attention.

[mat2312]

To you it isn't important, to others such as myself it is an important issue. It's about what the registry represents. The registry is the government putting undue restrictions on the population for no effective reason even when faced with factual evidence that the restrictions are unnecessary.

Having said that, I agree there are many issues that need to be addressed by our leadership but lets face it, we have idiots in government who care more about fighting each other (to save face for the next election) instead of governing our damn country. All parties are guilty of it and unfortunately it'll never end because Canada is a divided country.

[guym]

I care because I'm a hunter and it does effect me. That being said, I wish there wasn't the long gun registry

[Duster929]

To you it isn't important, to others such as myself it is an important issue. It's about what the registry represents. The registry is the government putting undue restrictions on the population for no effective reason even when faced with factual evidence that the restrictions are unnecessary.

Thanks. That's more what I'm trying to understand - the extent to which people see this as a big issue. An MP in a radio interview really put it into perspective for me. He was going to vote in favour of the registry, and he told his constituents that if the registry was a big deal for them, a bigger deal than his efforts to bring jobs to the area, or better transportation, infrastructure, and a bunch of other initiatives he was lobbying for on their behalf, then they should vote for someone else, because he thought those other issues were more important, and wasn't prepared to trade political capital away and lose ground on those issues. I thought it was an interesting point.

At some point, you have to choose your battles. For me, a battle over the gun registry doesn't seem worth it. A billion dollars could be deployed better, certainly, but killing the registry doesn't get us a billion dollars back.

[iridebikes]

At some point, you have to choose your battles. For me, a battle over the gun registry doesn't seem worth it. A billion dollars could be deployed better, certainly, but killing the registry doesn't get us a billion dollars back.

Saves a billion in the future. Especially considering that the ndp and liberals will concede and eliminate all licencing and registration fees. That means taxpayers are gonna be on the hook where previously it was gun owners paying for a good chunk of the system.

[mat2312]

What I don't get is why is it a one or the other issue? The facts are there, anyone with half a brain can see it's a waste of money. The Liberals, NDP, Cons and Bloc could have just said "Hey lets pass this quickly, save our money and move on to the important issues" Instead they all bicker about it to save face.

The problem with our political system is that opposition politicians cannot be seen to work together on anything, especially with the government in power REGARDLESS what their constituents want or what is in the best interest in Canada. It's one big bunch of children bickering instead of getting things done. I say ELIMINATE political parties.

[caboose483]

Thanks. That's more what I'm trying to understand - the extent to which people see this as a big issue. An MP in a radio interview really put it into perspective for me. He was going to vote in favour of the registry, and he told his constituents that if the registry was a big deal for them, a bigger deal than his efforts to bring jobs to the area, or better transportation, infrastructure, and a bunch of other initiatives he was lobbying for on their behalf, then they should vote for someone else, because he thought those other issues were more important, and wasn't prepared to trade political capital away and lose ground on those issues. I thought it was an interesting point.

At some point, you have to choose your battles. For me, a battle over the gun registry doesn't seem worth it. A billion dollars could be deployed better, certainly, but killing the registry doesn't get us a billion dollars back.

That makes no sense to me.

Sometimes, perhaps quite often, the issues at hand are out of the control of any one MP. Regardless of what issue is being voted on, the MP should vote in a way that best represents the folks in his riding. Whether or not other things are more important doesn't matter at this time. This is the issue, this is what's being voted on.

I guess that'd be a perfect world?

[skip]

It became a big issue when I was last living in Toronto about a year and a half ago and had the police randomly come by my apt to make sure my shotgun was stored correctly (which it was and still is).

I had to take a course. I have a licence, which the police see when they do a search on me. I think it is very safe to assume that when you come to a house of a person with a firearms licence that there are firearms present. The long gun registry which is completely separate from the licensing is a bureaucratic waste of time and money.

[mat2312]

It became a big issue when I was last living in Toronto about a year and a half ago and had the police randomly come by my apt to make sure my shotgun was stored correctly (which it was and still is).

I had to take a course. I have a licence, which the police see when they do a search on me. I think it is very safe to assume that when you come to a house of a person with a firearms licence that there are firearms present. The long gun registry which is completely separate from the licensing is a bureaucratic waste of time and money.

You are aware you do not have to grant them access when they want. Next time, tell them it is an inconvenient time for you and to schedule something that's better for you.

As scary as this sounds, the police know about as much about the firearms laws and regulations as the average non-firearms owner. How many officers know it's perfectly LEGAL to have an uncovered rifle in your vehicle.

[Duster929]

What I don't get is why is it a one or the other issue? The facts are there, anyone with half a brain can see it's a waste of money. The Liberals, NDP, Cons and Bloc could have just said "Hey lets pass this quickly, save our money and move on to the important issues" Instead they all bicker about it to save face.

The problem with our political system is that opposition politicians cannot be seen to work together on anything, especially with the government in power REGARDLESS what their constituents want or what is in the best interest in Canada. It's one big bunch of children bickering instead of getting things done. I say ELIMINATE political parties.

There's a lot of negotiation and political manouevring that goes along with getting what you want. And I don't mean that only for politics - it's true in any relationship, or in your workplace. You can't just ask for what you want, and get it all the time. Sometimes you also have to give up something that you want, so that the people you're working with can get something too. You say you would like the parties to work together on things - that involves setting priorities, and picking which issues you're going to demand cooperation on, and which issues you're going to give cooperation on. On this particular issue, I don't think it's the opposition partihat are seen not to be working with the government. I think the government has used this issue to create divisions between West and East, Urban and Rural, Right and Left. They could have made this vote part of the budget this year and caused it to become a non-confidence vote, if they wanted to. But they didn't. Instead they let this be a private member's bill.

Both parties are making this a bigger issue than it should be, in my opinion, using it for political gain, while the country suffers because more important issues aren't addressed. I respect MP's that keep this issue in context with respect to all the other political issues out there.

[Duster929]

It became a big issue when I was last living in Toronto about a year and a half ago and had the police randomly come by my apt to make sure my shotgun was stored correctly (which it was and still is).

I had to take a course. I have a licence, which the police see when they do a search on me. I think it is very safe to assume that when you come to a house of a person with a firearms licence that there are firearms present. The long gun registry which is completely separate from the licensing is a bureaucratic waste of time and money.

Random, unannounced spot checks by police are unacceptable, as far as I'm concerned. The gun registry requires this?

[Duster929]

That makes no sense to me.

Sometimes, perhaps quite often, the issues at hand are out of the control of any one MP. Regardless of what issue is being voted on, the MP should vote in a way that best represents the folks in his riding. Whether or not other things are more important doesn't matter at this time. This is the issue, this is what's being voted on.

I guess that'd be a perfect world?

The MP has to represent the interests of his riding in the best way possible, overall. This doesn't mean the MP has to fight for every single issue his constituents have. It doesn't make sense, for example, for an Oshawa MP to fight for better roads, if it's going to compromise his position on something that will make the area a more competitive place for GM to have an assembly plant. As an MP, you can't just follow what your constituents want on each issue. Leadership is about showing wisdom and judgement, not just doing everything your constituents want on a vote-by-vote basis. If that was the case, we wouldn't need MP's - we'd just have a referendum on every issue instead. The best and most successful politicians, the ones that show real leadership and vision, are the ones that do what's BEST for their constituents, not just what the constituents WANT. There is a big difference. Following polls and constituent desires on every issue would make someone a flighty and wishy-washy politician, that no-one would want to work with.

[caboose483]

Question!

Does the LGR include information JUST on long guns? Rifles, shot guns, etc? Or does it include hand guns as well?

[skip]

The LGR is just a database with long guns (rifles and shot guns). Hand guns are completely separate and have been since the 50's. Licencing is also separate as are the permit to transport required to move hand guns around.

Duster I believe it was a part of the bill that brought the registry into effect that allowed for this, not sure however I'm looking through the legal crap now. I know this happens alot in Toronto to owners that have registered their rifles. If you are a Toronto long gun owner never let you licence lapse because they will come knocking that day that it does.

Mat most police in the city don't know about long guns. The ones in rural areas I find to be much more knowledgeable.

[caboose483]

So people who think the LGR will have a measurable impact on criminals who use hand guns... are misinformed or just plain stupid?

[skip]

So people who think the LGR will have a measurable impact on criminals who use hand guns... are misinformed or just plain stupid?

One or the other, maybe both. Just like the people from Quebec that think it will stop someone that has snapped from going on a rampage. The people that want the LGR scrapped just have been doing a poor job of getting information out.

The information contained in the LGR is the make model and serial number of the rifles and shot guns registered to the licence. The firearms licence database (which is separate from the LGR) has the information about the person and the address. Example if you looked me up on the LGR you would see the following,

Shotgun Mossburg 500 12ga Serial Number #########, Rifle TOZ 78 .22 cal Serial Number #########, Rifle Lee-Enfield Mk 4 .303 cal Serial Number #########

Thats all.

The only time I could see it as being useful at all is if someone in my area was shot with a similar gun to one that matches mine they may have a place to start looking.

[Icbones]

Scrapping the LGR would have been a good lesson to future politicians not to embark on useless programs. The ~ $two billion spent creating it is gone already, done deal and there is no way taxpayers are ever going to get it back. The benefits from scrapping it would have been that any future brain dead politician contemplating the next intrusive government registration scheme might have second thoughts. If the previously mention brain dead politician has a memory of Canada's most hated and discussed piece of legislation that started out as the infamous Bill C-68, and knowing that the next regime will abolish it, then he or she hopefully would not even risk the embarrassment of creating something that will fail in the near future.

[Icbones]

One or the other, maybe both. Just like the people from Quebec that think it will stop someone that has snapped from going on a rampage. The people that want the LGR scrapped just have been doing a poor job of getting information out.

I don't think it is the fault of firearm groups and enthusiasts not getting the message out. It is more a function of the media being biased against gun owners. The red Star is the most biased and inaccurate in, not just firearm related stories but almost everything they print. Their writing staff are more opinion columnists, not reporters.