What bikes are suitable as entry/amateur level supermoto racers?

[CDN zx6r]

What do most veteran racers suggest to a new rider wanting to start? And does the year of the bike matter? Do guys compete for example a bike manufactured in the 80's or 90's against the 2010 models? Any and all advice will be appreciated. Thanks.

If any of you currently compete in supermoto, name the make, model and year of your bike, along with class you race in.

[blackcamaro]

Okay your not getting any love here so I will throw my opinion out there. I don't race so my opinion isn't based on first hand info.

I would buy a something like a 2005 or newer 250 four stroke mx bike to start with. To get your feet wet throw on a set of tires on mx wheels, it is refered to as a sportsman set-up and the cost is very low. Older bikes are going to be tough to source parts for and the older stuff you mention is going to be a dog or a 2 stroke. You want a hi performance 4 stroke for sure.

If you like it then you can dive in head first and do suspension, brakes 17' wheels etc. Lots and lots of money. If you can find a bike already set-up then do that.

I think it is 408 racing that does the supermoto races at shanonville and the beginner class is pretty much run whatever you have and also look at esmra series in the states. I think ESMRA runs in NY and PA.

[reciprocity]

Buy a complete race package from a current racer, you'll spend FAR less money for something competitive.

The cost of starting with an MX bike and building a supermoto VERY high, you're better off starting with a Full on racer.

MX wheels can be had used for $250-$300 with rotors.

You'll spend $1000 minimum for used SM wheels, then add the cost of suspension tuning, slipper clutch etc, etc

Anything from the 80's and 90's will be 2 stroke and NOT competitive at all



I won the 2008 CMRC Expert national championship on an 04 CRF450 and finished on the podium several times in CMRC pro 250 and ESMRA pro 250 on an 06 CRF250

[CDN zx6r]

Thanks, finally a response! Some good points guys. Reciprocity, would I be better off starting out on a 250cc. The way the rules/classes read to me, it seems that at the beginner/novice level, 250's and 450's go head to head. Is that right, or are there separate races, or is only one size allowed? (I hope you can understand that question)

[georgy]

Thanks, finally a response! Some good points guys. Reciprocity, would I be better off starting out on a 250cc. The way the rules/classes read to me, it seems that at the beginner/novice level, 250's and 450's go head to head. Is that right, or are there separate races, or is only one size allowed? (I hope you can understand that question)

I've been racing with reciprocity's CRF250 this year. Yes, you can compete against the 450s on a beginer level, on a twisty supermoto track. They will gain on you on the straights, but you can usually make it up in the turns.

I got the 250 because I wanted to practice more in the dirt. If you are not too concerned with that and are comfortable with the power delivery of dirt bikes, I suggest you go for a 450. It will never leave you wanting for power and is much easier on maintenance, compared to a high strung 250.

As far as classes to race in, there is:
1. Novice (any cc)
2. Open amateur (any cc)
3. 250 ameteur
4. 450 ameteur
5. 250 pro (didn't run this year)
6. 450 pro

Check:
http://www.408racing.com/

and the supermoto forums:
http://www.supermotojunkie.com/forum...upermoto-Forum

Read around there..I bet people have asked a lot of the questions that may be on your mind. Also, keep an eye on bike classifieds there.

I'd suggest coming out to the final race at Shanonville on October 3rd. There will be a lot of people to talk to and you will find most of them very friendly. Supermoto racing is a pretty relaxed environment as a whole.

[CDN zx6r]

Thanks. I'll put October 3rd on the calendar. This might seem like a dumb question, but are all 250's used in supermoto racing 2 strokes? Are there 250 4-stroke bikes? It seems that the general consensus is that 4-strokes require less maintenance. I wouldn't think that a 250 4-stroke would stand a chance against a 450. My knowledge of dirt bikes is, as you can see, very limited. If the 250's are 2-strokes, against the 450 4-strokes, this makes a lot more sense to me, as they would be closer in power than I originally was thinking. In fact, I think if one was to get proficient at riding the 2-stroke, I think they might have an advantage.

[CDN zx6r]

The more I read, the more I think the 450cc 4-stroke would be what I need. "Georgy" mentioned above that he went with the crf250 because he wanted to practice on dirt. What makes a 450cc bike less capable in the dirt? Could I not ride it on the trails with knobbies installed?

[reciprocity]

the 250's are all 4 strokes

4 strokes require MUCH more maintenance than a 2 stroke.

a 250 2 stroke is BARELY competitive as a supermoto racer against 250 4 stroke and has NO chance against a 450

Ridden properly, a 250 is competitive against 450's on smaller tracks as they're easier to ride hard.

If you maintain corner speed and are good in the dirt.

The 450's just have SO much power that even if you have terrible corner speeds you can park the bike and still drive away from a 250.

On a larger track where the 450 can stretch its legs the 250 is a bit outgunned.

back to back, on an open track I can run nearly identical lap times on my 450 and 250 but maintaining those laptimes on a 250 in race conditions where you have to change lines etc is MUCH more difficult.


a 450 is not less capable, its FAR more difficult to ride.

Stock, a 250 makes about 35-37hp, where a 450 is 48-50

My 250(Georgy's now) was about 42hp on race fuel, my 450 is in excess of 60hp in race trim.

[georgy]

Thanks, finally a response! Some good points guys. Reciprocity, would I be better off starting out on a 250cc. The way the rules/classes read to me, it seems that at the beginner/novice level, 250's and 450's go head to head. Is that right, or are there separate races, or is only one size allowed? (I hope you can understand that question)

This guy is asking the same questions you are.

There are 3 canadian 450s for sale at a reasonable price right now:
http://www.supermotojunkie.com/showt...d-I-Get-KTM350

I also remember seeing one from Quebec posted in the classifieds somewhere..

[reciprocity]

I've got a REALLY good 450 for sale if you're interested.

[spaceboy]

Is Shanonville the only SM track in the area?

[CDN zx6r]

That's a good question. I'm not sure, but I do believe that Shannonville is the only track that is running a supermoto series of races. I would guess that as long as the bike you have passes tech inspection, you could take it to any track day at any of the other tracks, and be welcome to ride. Don't quote me on that, because I really am just guessing. Anyone else know the facts?

[spaceboy]

I'm pretty sure you're right about that.
But I was hoping that there would be some closer sm tracks. I was thinking of picking up a sumo for the 2012 season, but having to drive over 3 hours to ride is a deal breaker for me.

[GasGas]

a 250 2 stroke is BARELY competitive as a supermoto racer against 250 4 stroke and has NO chance against a 450

Why?
The reason I ask, is because I have a 300 2-stroke that will out run 450 4-strokes in the trails and on open fire roads. As I have never ridden a supermoto, I was wondering what the difference with racing on the pavement is.
Is it all in the power delivery?
I'd kinda like to throw some street tires on my stock rims and give supermoto a try next season. I'm getting tired of spending 2 hours after a race washing mud off my bike and gear...lol.

[reciprocity]

Why?
The reason I ask, is because I have a 300 2-stroke that will out run 450 4-strokes in the trails and on open fire roads. As I have never ridden a supermoto, I was wondering what the difference with racing on the pavement is.
Is it all in the power delivery?
I'd kinda like to throw some street tires on my stock rims and give supermoto a try next season. I'm getting tired of spending 2 hours after a race washing mud off my bike and gear...lol.

Then there is something wrong with the 450's you're riding against, unless you've got a SERIOUS amount of work done to your 300.

the 450's also make torque far beyond what a 2 stroke will.

If 2 strokes were competitive, everyone would race them, same idea as MX, you can build a 250mx racer to make the same power as a 450 4stroke but the power spread is about 1500rpm wide whereas the 450's power spread is 4000rpm wide, this makes it a much more capable bike.

[clamca]

Do it. Put wheels and go ride supermoto. You will love it and using what you already have is the cheapest way to start.

Why?
The reason I ask, is because I have a 300 2-stroke that will out run 450 4-strokes in the trails and on open fire roads. As I have never ridden a supermoto, I was wondering what the difference with racing on the pavement is.
Is it all in the power delivery?
I'd kinda like to throw some street tires on my stock rims and give supermoto a try next season. I'm getting tired of spending 2 hours after a race washing mud off my bike and gear...lol.

[GasGas]

Then there is something wrong with the 450's you're riding against, unless you've got a SERIOUS amount of work done to your 300.

the 450's also make torque far beyond what a 2 stroke will.

If 2 strokes were competitive, everyone would race them, same idea as MX, you can build a 250mx racer to make the same power as a 450 4stroke but the power spread is about 1500rpm wide whereas the 450's power spread is 4000rpm wide, this makes it a much more capable bike.

Nope, nothing wrong with the 450's and my bike is stock. My bike is similar to a KTM300 2 Stroke. Delivers power more smoothly than a motocross 2-stroke.
Must be the power delivery then.
I will definitely get some street tires to fit my 21" and 18" tires and come out and try the sportsman class next year. Fitting 17" wheels to my Gas Gas would cost too much, it would be cheaper to just buy a second bike.

[supermoto specialties]

A little late joining the thread but have to agree with recip, completely for SM.
I posted here earlier but I guess I missed the post reply buton.
For SM the 4 stroke is the tool for the job - not saying a 2 stroke won't work, they don't have the power delivery for SM. We had a new SM rider out for the last race on a YZ250 2 stroke and he was trampled by the power of the 4 stroke (they ran away) sure gearing engine work... won't help much even on the short track.
If just getting in and can find/afford a ready build bike thats the easiest way. Either a 250 or 450 will do fine beginning, just know with a 250 you'll want to move up sooner or later, and as recip noted the 250 will do the job but makes you work for it.
Converting an MX bike over to SM is really not that expensive either contrary to the popular myth! Starting out you don't need the fast stuff, just wheels and upgrade the brakes to what you can afford, it is possible to switch out for around $2000. = wheels/tires/brake upgrade, once skill improves and budget allows then focus on the crazy brake set up and slipper clutch etc.
SM is cheap all around to get into, check out the 408 Racing.com web site for more info on the series and events.
You can ride in Bracebridge, TMP and most track days, but Shannonville is the only racing event and people travel 3-4 hrs or more in some cases - its totally fun.

Pete

[fish_bate]

Pete's got a good point. But what everyone's missing is explaining why your 300 takes the 450's on the trails. Just look at what most guys are riding in the World Enduro Championship. 300 2-strokes. Some guys are even switching over to 250 2-strokes in WORCS. The 2-strokes work on the trails because of light flywheel and lighter weight overall. They handle better in tight, twisty trails. They work the best when your always climbing hills, over obstacles, in and out of trees with barely enough room to fit your bars through, etc. etc. Take your 300 to an MX track and you'll notice the 450's would probably hand you your hat.
But there's one special thing about off-road racing, motocross and supermoto. Rider and team skill is a bigger part of the overall equation than in other forms of road racing. If your fast enough you can make just about anything work. If you take a look at MotoGP or WSB, you'll notice that there are riders that have the talent and the desire to win a championship but can't get anywhere near the podium because they're on a substandard bike/team.

[canadian FZR]

I have a supermoto bike and full race setup for sale. Let me know if you are interested. I won the 2009 ESMRA begginer points championship and the 2010 novice points championship. so it is a excellent bike to start on and move up on.