$1200 bill after low-siding in Caledon

[1fast6]

After all they didn't need to be there. No service was needed, No services were rendered the person called 911 when the guy was up and moving around. Sorry but no he shouldn't have to pay $1200 for a service he didn't request and didn't need.

How do they determine they needed to be there or not? Should emergency services waste vital seconds debating with the caller the extent of the emergency?
The service rendered was them arriving. do you have to get a ride on the big red fire truck to justify the expense of having them dispatched? I wont argue the costs involved, but expense comes from them just arriving. ready, willing, and able to help.
How was it determined that the person knew they didn't need help? i find it ridiculous to assume that someone called 911 for a stranger just for kicks...
Again I dont know how the final tab gets calculated, i'm sure administrative cost chew up most of it, but to assume that having emergency services show up doesn't incrue expense is naive..

[AdRath]

How do they determine they needed to be there or not? Should emergency services waste vital seconds debating with the caller the extent of the emergency?
The service rendered was them arriving. do you have to get a ride on the big red fire truck to justify the expense of having them dispatched? I wont argue the costs involved, but expense comes from them just arriving. ready, willing, and able to help.
How was it determined that the person knew they didn't need help? i find it ridiculous to assume that someone called 911 for a stranger just for kicks...
Again I dont know how the final tab gets calculated, i'm sure administrative cost chew up most of it, but to assume that having emergency services show up doesn't incrue expense is naive..

I'm not suggesting that someone called 911 just for kicks I'm suggesting someone called 911 when the rider was up and functional.

It seems the police and ambulance aren't billing just to show up. The ambulance bills only when transport is needed but for some reason the fire dept has to add massive costs when they show up to situations they aren't needed in? Why does the fire dept have to send a full fire truck of guys when there is no fire to put out and that level of support isn't needed. They have smaller response vehicles that would do perfectly in a single vehicle accident with little chance of raging fire (single motorcycle accident). Do they need to send 10 guys to every accident site? Nope.

Bottom line is is stupid that an individual should be out of pocket for such a large amount when they never asked for a service and never needed the service. If you don't see an issue with being billed because someone else made a bad decision and called 911 then I guess we will never agree.

[turbodish]

How typical of the little games you play. Always omitting pertinent facts. I'll type it out slowly for you. Hopefully you'll grasp it the second (third? fourth?) time around.


The property taxes for firefighting services are calculated out including in the cost of fire and accident calls. The new fees are a blatant revenue generating (hence Burlinton's charge of $150/bag of absorbent), so both the property owner and the accident victim are paying for the same service (aka double dipping). If it were otherwise, the costs per homeowner/business (taxes) would be reduced.


I hope I made that simple enough for you to understand.

No, it just confirmed what I think of your thought processes. Simplistic at best.

Municipal government is essentially run on a non-profit basis. Expected expenses must be offset by expected revenue from all sources. The fire department is one major expense. By recouping the costs of responding to insured auto collisions, the fire department is reducing their net expenses. If those costs are not recouped, the municipality would have to increase property taxes to offset the amount not recouped. Then all taxpayers end up paying for the municipal costs of handling your crash even though you have liability insurance specifically to cover this type of thing.

Short story - you crash, you pay the costs or you submit a claim to your insurance. Don't like it? Then drive or ride more defensively to reduce your potential for crashes.

This isn't rocket science. Then again, you're not a rocket scientist, are you?

[FullMotoJacket]

You're just too dense to get it, that's all. ALL municipal expenditures are estimated and budgeted ahead of time. If Caledon can provide services through their taxes to their own citizens, then Burlinton can too but they've decided to charge everyone. If you read the Burlington Post, you'd know about the uproar in town over the municipality overcharging for supplies at accidents (this is where you claim you read the Post, and it says something different).

[1fast6]

its quite likely that the smaller response vehicle may have been on another call.. like most emergency services the response, quality, and ability to handle emergencies cant be jeopardized because one or more crews may be out on a call.. In most rural areas, even other emergency services from other rural areas will have to move into whats called staging areas to aid in coverage.. I dont know the circumstances to this particular call, but i do know that expenses can accumulate rather fast depending on the situation.. would you have them charge by the fire? you could watch your house burn while you haggle over the price to put it out.
Unlike police, ambulance which is generally a two person crew, with minimal equipment fire departments need to have large crews and extensive equipment as well as big trucks that do more then transport said equipment.. Here is where we run into problems I think. True, a whole truck and crew may not have been required for that particular scene, but had they recieved another call they would have gone from this scene to another. They have to be prepared to do so at a level that is sufficient. which is why if the smaller response vehicle is not availible, or in rural areas that dont have one, a full crew of fire fighters is dispatched. 1200 dollars for this level of service doesnt sound like that much to honestly.. I understand how the op feels about getting a bill for it, but if you think about what needs to be done in order to get that kind of service and even though in this case he didnt need it isnt he glad its there when and if he ever does?

[turbodish]

ALL municipal expenditures are estimated and budgeted ahead of time.

You just don't get it, do you? The budget process also includes assessing expected revenue and using it to offset expenditures, thus working to keep taxes down.

Burlington has chosen to shift the financial costs of responding to traffic crashes away from property owners and onto the vehicle owners involved and their insurance companies. This is a perfectly valid choice when it comes to budgeting strategy.

[infernobuster]

the system has flaws, but attacking the civil servants for doing their jobs or the good Samaritans for calling 911 are ridiculous. you were in a accident, someone thought you needed assistance and called.. good for them. if someone abuses the system like in the example someone made about calling 911 on someone they didnt like they are charged and billed. simple. I wont pretend to be a expert on the fire service industry, but i do know however that before they can respond, they're needs to be a minimum amount of firefighters on truck, at hall and available for staging incase another emergency response is needed. I know that of the emergency services they fight the hardest for their budget, especially in smaller rural areas where tax payers find it hard to justify their expenses. Im not saying that the system cant be improved, but its honestly pretty effective right now. call your insurance company and report the accident and have em flip the bill. its the reason you pay insurance.
Regardless, as it stands you were in a accident. it was investigated enough to the satisfaction of the municipality that 911 was called for you, you are responsible for the bill as it is now. Dont pay it and let me know how that goes for ya.

Well said.

[backmarkerducati]

Now the socialist solution to this would be add $10 to every ones plate renewals to cover the costs for out of town vehicular mishaps (paid for by the province). Of course the $10 will be squandered and we will then have to pay $1500 per incident...

[El Zilcho]

the system has flaws, but attacking the civil servants for doing their jobs or the good Samaritans for calling 911 are ridiculous.

This is not about attacking the civil servants, but about having to pay for what should already be covered by taxes.

I know that of the emergency services they fight the hardest for their budget, especially in smaller rural areas where tax payers find it hard to justify their expenses.

And? That's not really a reason to pay more on top of the taxes. That's a symptom of a problem.

call your insurance company and report the accident and have em flip the bill. its the reason you pay insurance.

I'm willing to guess that this is not the reason why people have insurance. First of all, insurance is mandatory. That's a reason number one for many. Second, in the situation where your insurance company may soon be raising premiums if a car next to you gets into an accident, people may consider insurance as the last resort---something to cover the bill if they themselves can't. In most cases, if there are no injuries, etc, and if you can fix the damage yourself, the best thing to do is to just do it.

[Wheelieboy]

Would this be covered under regular liability insurance anyways? Or collision is needed (if driver is at fault). It could potentially be a heafty amount to pay out of pocket for someone without the proper insurance...

[turbodish]

Would this be covered under regular liability insurance anyways?

It's covered under your mandatory coverages.

[Flashmonkey]

And? That's not really a reason to pay more on top of the taxes. That's a symptom of a problem.

This is my beef with this whole thing. This should be covered by one or more of the many taxes we're paying already. If we were to ask for the book-keeping numbers of the municipalities, or the province, or the federal government, I'm willing to bet we'd see tens of thousands, or even hundreds of thousands of dollars missing due to rounding errors alone.

And here they are billing us for essential services. They can go **** themselves.

[rust0r]

Very interesting, never knew this happened. Sorry to hear about your accident and BS bill.

BRB Calling 911 for the next out of towner that cuts me off