The Sun article you've all been waiting for...

[OliverK]

Doesn't stop young people from getting a license. They somehow manage to scrape up the money for their first year of insurance. But it gets easier from then on, it's the first year that hurts. Then things get even easier at 25 years old.

Motorcycles are not a necessity, even less so than a car. Not going to be the end of the world if you can't get your dream bike for your first bike.

I agree that insurance is not necessarily an impediment from obtaining a license; and you are also right that many do scrape up enough for insurance. If you can't get insurance, though, you can't ride what you want, if at all.

The insurance industry carries further what the MTO tacitly supports with its under-21 BAC and under 19-G2 restrictions.

[stormcat]

Hey Jenny Yeun, you need to take responsibility for the things you write, and the BS you perpetuate. Do you even have a conscience? Probably not. If you did, you wouldn't be working for Sun Media in the first place.


“We call them ‘ninjaboys’ — a slang term for these maniacs on sport bikes.

Here I am a female 38-year-old Doctoral Candidate on a 'crotch rocket'. Writing crap like the above stereotypes EVERYONE on a sport bike. It also gives your readership 'justification' to be a complete jerk to me on the road because they think I'm nothing more than a 16-year-old hooligan with a death wish.


“You’ll see every 16-year-old kid who wants to go out and buy a 200-horsepower motorcycle — I always recommend they purchase a life insurance policy at the same time,” says Scott Johnson, who works in a claims department at an insurance company that doesn’t cover sport bikes and who also rides one."

Where are these 200HP bikes? Jenny, you and the agent you purportedly spoke with don't have a freakin' clue. Just stick to your scooter, mmmk?


‘You will die’

“If you’re 16 on a bike like that, you will die. The funny thing is there’s no way I can even use the full abilities of my motorcycle, I’m not that good of a rider and I’ve been riding for 26 years,” he says.

26 years of experience and he can't handle a bike? I say sell it and take up stamp collecting. As for "you will die," seriously? What a moronic statement. It's like saying a 16-year-old in/on any vehicle WILL DIE. Period. No discussion. How can anyone make such a ridiculous statement as this? I realize you're catering to mom and pops who'd rather little Johnny don't get a little 12HP CBR125R, but this is plain stupid. I'm at a loss for words here...


"From 2000 to 2009, the hospital saw a total of 551 motorcycle trauma patients. Of those, 34 were drivers who died and four were passengers who were fatally injured. There were 130 under 25 years old and the majority of those admitted were male."

34 riders/passengers died at Sunnybrook. How many people in CARS died from collisions in the same 9 years? How many cyclists on pedal bikes died? How many died from rollerblade or skateboarding injuries? Only 34 riders died during 9 years. I'd say riding is pretty safe by comparison. Of course, you wouldn't admit to that, now would you, Jenny? How many riders died because they were hit by people in cars? Let's not make this an issue of riding. Most of this is an issue of ignorant, disrespectful people in cars.

Interesting that you keep referring to the type of bike one rides as the source of the problem. You completely ignore the fact that sport bike riders are more apt to wear full gear in comparison to cruiser riders. Yeah, this isn't a biased article kowtowing to its public's need for unsubstantiated spectacle at all, eh?

[RetroGrouch]

Writing crap like the above stereotypes EVERYONE on a sport bike. It also gives your readership 'justification' to be a complete jerk to me on the road because they think I'm nothing more than a 16-year-old hooligan with a death wish.

It's all in your head. No one is out get you because you ride a sportbike.

Interesting that you keep referring to the type of bike one rides as the source of the problem. You completely ignore the fact that sport bike riders are more apt to wear full gear in comparison to cruiser riders. Yeah, this isn't a biased article kowtowing to its public's need for unsubstantiated spectacle at all, eh?

Whew, you really took this article personally didn't you? If the shoe doesn't fit, don't wear it.

[Sundie]

The only answer to the question "why do you want a more powerful" bike is "i want to go faster/quicker." the younger crowd's belief in their own immortality and that "nothing can go wrong", or rather their belief that they can handle things if they do go wrong, gives them a misplaced confidence in their ability. Us old ****s know that things happen, and hurt, and lately will probably hurt more, for longer.

There's your justification for young driver restrictions.

For *any* age, there should also be a graduated period. I've noticed a lot of my friend's starting to have their mid-life crisis', and considering a 600cc a "small" bike. Then they get on their shiny new 1100 and scare themselves to bits and sell it within a year, or get into one of those situations they "just couldn't have avoided".

Those are two different conditions that are covered by the same solution.

I believe graduated power licensing to be an excellent idea. If you really want that high displacement rocket, what's the issue in waiting a few years for it?

ps - note that while i used the word "rocket" above, i don't mean i'm only including crotch rockets. You basic showroom high displacement Harley has more than enough power to scare a newb and get them in serious trouble too.

[MotoStark]

I saw the quote - i felt it was used rather disjointedly in the final article. I was not asked for permission, but the quote was 'published' from a public source, and i was 'quoted' as the source, so no journalistic integrity rules were broken at all.

Who cares, you're famous now. Can I have your autograph?


As for the Sun, people still read that "newspaper" for actual, realistic, factual news stories?

Thought it was only good for the pics and the pages of never ending ads.


.

[bear22099]

Hey Jenny Yeun, you need to take responsibility for the things you write, and the BS you perpetuate. Do you even have a conscience? Probably not. If you did, you wouldn't be working for Sun Media in the first place.


“We call them ‘ninjaboys’ — a slang term for these maniacs on sport bikes.

Here I am a female 38-year-old Doctoral Candidate on a 'crotch rocket'. Writing crap like the above stereotypes EVERYONE on a sport bike. It also gives your readership 'justification' to be a complete jerk to me on the road because they think I'm nothing more than a 16-year-old hooligan with a death wish.


“You’ll see every 16-year-old kid who wants to go out and buy a 200-horsepower motorcycle — I always recommend they purchase a life insurance policy at the same time,” says Scott Johnson, who works in a claims department at an insurance company that doesn’t cover sport bikes and who also rides one."

Where are these 200HP bikes? Jenny, you and the agent you purportedly spoke with don't have a freakin' clue. Just stick to your scooter, mmmk?


‘You will die’

“If you’re 16 on a bike like that, you will die. The funny thing is there’s no way I can even use the full abilities of my motorcycle, I’m not that good of a rider and I’ve been riding for 26 years,” he says.

26 years of experience and he can't handle a bike? I say sell it and take up stamp collecting. As for "you will die," seriously? What a moronic statement. It's like saying a 16-year-old in/on any vehicle WILL DIE. Period. No discussion. How can anyone make such a ridiculous statement as this? I realize you're catering to mom and pops who'd rather little Johnny don't get a little 12HP CBR125R, but this is plain stupid. I'm at a loss for words here...


"From 2000 to 2009, the hospital saw a total of 551 motorcycle trauma patients. Of those, 34 were drivers who died and four were passengers who were fatally injured. There were 130 under 25 years old and the majority of those admitted were male."

34 riders/passengers died at Sunnybrook. How many people in CARS died from collisions in the same 9 years? How many cyclists on pedal bikes died? How many died from rollerblade or skateboarding injuries? Only 34 riders died during 9 years. I'd say riding is pretty safe by comparison. Of course, you wouldn't admit to that, now would you, Jenny? How many riders died because they were hit by people in cars? Let's not make this an issue of riding. Most of this is an issue of ignorant, disrespectful people in cars.

Interesting that you keep referring to the type of bike one rides as the source of the problem. You completely ignore the fact that sport bike riders are more apt to wear full gear in comparison to cruiser riders. Yeah, this isn't a biased article kowtowing to its public's need for unsubstantiated spectacle at all, eh?

All the "issues" you appear to have are really not the authors doing. You simply do not like some of the opinions that are presented.

But you did miss the most obvious disconnect in the article. It starts and ends around the accident of Goldie Eng. That accident (according to the article) has nothing to do with sport bikes, nothing to do with inexperience of new riders on fast bikes and actually nothing at all to do with any part of the article. The accident was caused by someone running a stop sign. Could she not find some examples that were pertinent to the subject of the article? And I supplied her with opinions supporting the other side of this discussion, they were not included in this article, so it was purely a one sided editorial.

[Moreno636]

"ninjaboys" really? Really?

And how did that one guy know the guy who wizzed by him was under 21?

[Kool]

You can die riding a sport bicycle too..wtfc?
What about all the drownings in Ontario...??? Does nobody care ??? It's a freakin epidemic out there.
We need swimming lessons for everyone...or you can't go near water.
Dolton?...anybody?

[CanadianBiker]

It's The Sun, what do you expect? They pander to the lowest common denonimator, based on a Grade 6 reading comprehension level, and on anything they will always put some kind of violence/sex/salacious spin on things. Trotting out hackneyed cliches like "donor cycles" says more about the writer's lack of imagination and skill than it does about motorcycles, even if it's allegedly a quote.
I started riding a 125, largely because it's all I could afford. As I earned more money, I bought bigger bikes. Credit wasn't as easy then as it is now, so I was limited to what I could pay cash for. In my opinion, that was a good thing. Any kid now can walk into a dealership and buy whatever strikes his or her fancy, easy payments. And I don't know of many dealers who actively discourage buyers from particular bikes. Even if they did, the kid will just go somewhere else. It's a tough business and turning away sales is suicide.
All that said, I'd hate to see size or HP restrictions legislated. We already live in a nanny state; our benevolent dictators paternalistically tell us what to do and how to do it every single day. As a result, people have abandoned the idea of personal responsibility.
Maybe a better approach is graduated enforcement. New riders face tougher penalties, in an effort to force them to ride more responsibly, give their skills a chance to develop before they ride over their heads.
Or maybe just let Darwin sort it out. There will always be riders who confuse their bikes' abilities with their own, regardless of age or experience. If they weren't on a bike that couldn't ride as well as they think they can, they would be in a hi-po car or some other vehicle they haven't truly mastered. You can't fix stupid.

[Bandit Bill]

Who cares, you're famous now. Can I have your autograph?


As for the Sun, people still read that "newspaper" for actual, realistic, factual news stories?

Thought it was only good for the pics and the pages of never ending ads.


.

Considering the publication, i'd rather much take pride in an early 2000's Cycle Canada article that i penned, and got $50.00 for the effort.

I read the Toronto Sun at work, but only when it's been passed on to me by one of my clients.. it's a great paper for the functionally illiterate, lots of pictures.

[CanadianBiker]

Here I am a female 38-year-old Doctoral Candidate on a 'crotch rocket'. Writing crap like the above stereotypes EVERYONE on a sport bike. It also gives your readership 'justification' to be a complete jerk to me on the road because they think I'm nothing more than a 16-year-old hooligan with a death wish.

Sometimes stereotypes exist for a reason. I imagine that there are far more 20-something males riding sportbikes than 38 year-old women. Not sure how being a PhD candidate makes a difference - academic education doesn't equal motorcycle skill - but assuming it does, that would narrow the field even more. So the stereotype has some credence, even if you don't fit.

26 years of experience and he can't handle a bike? I say sell it and take up stamp collecting.

He didn't say he couldn't handle his bike, he said he's not a good enough rider to realise its full potential. Big difference and one I would guess applies to 99.9% of riders. If they really were that good, they'd be duking it out with Rossi on the track, not squirting around public roads. He just has enough on the ball to recognise it and is humble enough to admit it.

34 riders/passengers died at Sunnybrook. How many people in CARS died from collisions in the same 9 years? How many cyclists on pedal bikes died? How many died from rollerblade or skateboarding injuries? Only 34 riders died during 9 years. I'd say riding is pretty safe by comparison. Of course, you wouldn't admit to that, now would you, Jenny? How many riders died because they were hit by people in cars? Let's not make this an issue of riding. Most of this is an issue of ignorant, disrespectful people in cars.

Mere numbers mean nothing. It would have to be a comparative study of total number of vehicles, fatalities per accident, years driving, miles driven, weather conditions, and a whole whack of other factors only a statistician could think of. Saying more people died in cars ergo cars are as or more unsafe than motorcycles is ridiculous without context.

Interesting that you keep referring to the type of bike one rides as the source of the problem. You completely ignore the fact that sport bike riders are more apt to wear full gear in comparison to cruiser riders.

Cite your source for this "fact". I live in Caledon, near FOTC and I see tons of bikes every single day. I'd guess it's 50/50 for gear, other than full face helmets. And no amount of gear makes up for lack of skill or judgement. And while there are certainly cruiser riders who probably should trade in their bikes for bus passes, the bikes don't lend themselves to the kind of high speed antics that have been in the press lately, so the focus is justified.

I understand and appreciate your ire at this article but your counter arguments don't hold water.

[Venom01]

A middle age person hopping on a 600+ lbs. Harley for the first time can be pretty dangerous too.

Yep
http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_u...&v=TEBCTIlfMow

[stormcat]

It's all in your head. No one is out get you because you ride a sportbike.

If you hadn't noticed, the article title and body is specific to sport bikes. Missed that part, eh? Moreover, that Jenny 'thing' is merely reiterating a common stereotype about sport bike riders. Bunch of hooligans, maniacs, law breakers with no respect for speed limits, yadda, yadda.

Whew, you really took this article personally didn't you? If the shoe doesn't fit, don't wear it.

Personally, no. Ability to reply in a critical manner, yes. So, ya know, if you don't actually have anything to say, maybe you shouldn't say it. Thanks for the non-contribution to this discussion there, bro.

[inreb]

Considering the publication, i'd rather much take pride in an early 2000's Cycle Canada article that i penned, and got $50.00 for the effort.

I read the Toronto Sun at work, but only when it's been passed on to me by one of my clients.. it's a great paper for the functionally illiterate, lots of pictures.

Ah, geeeze, I wish you hadn't posted that I was gonna make a nasty remark about "you get what you pay for" in reference to the Sun piece and Jennys' remuneration.

I have Cycle Canada going way back. What issue? Or link.

[inreb]

[quote=stormcat;1404955]

You're off to a roaring start this morning, stormcat Don't be such a victim

[adri]

The article I've been waiting for? In the Sun of all places?

All this article does is reinforce all the social stigmas we face as riders:

- Young riders don't understand/recognize the power of their bikes.
- Young riders ride like maniacs.
- If you're 16 on a motorcycle "You will die".

I particularly loved the:
“A couple months ago, I was coming up on the parkway and one of them buzzed by me between the cars. There was no way he was older than 21,” Durrant says.

Durrant, you must be a hell of a judge of age to be able to recognize how old someone is from beneath a full-face helmet covering 90% of their head. Way to go dude.

I'm wondering when the last time any of the people who made these comments actually took the time to regularly ride with and really get to know these younger riders they were judging, rather than just casting judgements.

My girlfriend (21) and I (22) both ride. We don't ride with anyone our age, usually with people anywhere from 10 years older to twice our age. On our own, we don't ride like this article hints we would. This is my fourth season riding and I've never been in accident, I average about 15k km/annually.

I have many friends who've been in accidents this season (stop following ZX600!), some were unfortunate, some were pushing their limits, some are newer riders than me despite being nearly twice my age. Drop the pointing fingers at age, it's experience that makes the difference. Isn't this common sense?

[Wingboy]

Hmm? Just read the article.I have no problem with it at all.I've heard all the stereotyping before,and I'll hear it again.As far as those of you criticizing her writing are concerned.You should have stepped up to the plate when she asked for input.You are now the "peanut gallery".

[Jag_V4Ape]

This articles great I think. Toughed upon some good points about rookie riders. I think here in Canada they should do what UK does. You need experience on a smaller machine before jumping on a bigger one. (age does not matter).

Also, 250cc would be a great bike to begin with..

[Bandit Bill]

Ah, geeeze, I wish you hadn't posted that I was gonna make a nasty remark about "you get what you pay for" in reference to the Sun piece and Jennys' remuneration.

I have Cycle Canada going way back. What issue? Or link.

Not sure now on what issue/year. I figure that it was around 2002-2003, and was written for a reader's submission two page spread on "funny and amusing riding anectdotes".

My article related to a very early 1990's incident involving a flipped sidecar rig, a pre-broken leg and crutches flying, and the contemplation of what exactly constitutes squidly behavior and how i qualified for it.

I don't have that issue readily on hand at this time, it's somewhere in the many bundles of moto-mags that i have in storage.

[stormcat]

Sometimes stereotypes exist for a reason. I imagine that there are far more 20-something males riding sportbikes than 38 year-old women. Not sure how being a PhD candidate makes a difference - academic education doesn't equal motorcycle skill - but assuming it does, that would narrow the field even more. So the stereotype has some credence, even if you don't fit.

The point is that I am not 16-year-old high school boy out on a 1k SS bike like the author implies. There are lots of us that aren't, so we need to stop stereotyping everyone on a super sport as such. We're from all different backgrounds, ages, educations, family structures, the list goes on.

You ride an HD according to your avatar. Does that mean you're grossly obese, in need of a good shower, back shave and some clean clothes as per the stereotype? No, you're probably a dentist clinging to a bad boy image as the other stereotype maintains? Which "shoe" fits? More importantly, do you see the issue with stereotyping riders based on the type of bike they ride? Pretty stupid, isn't it?

I don't understand why some people on forums can't seem to connect context to a statement.

He didn't say he couldn't handle his bike, he said he's not a good enough rider to realise its full potential. Big difference and one I would guess applies to 99.9% of riders. If they really were that good, they'd be duking it out with Rossi on the track, not squirting around public roads. He just has enough on the ball to recognise it and is humble enough to admit it.

He said he's "not a very good rider [despite] 26 years of experience." What does the author of that statement mean? Well I suppose your guess is as good as mine, but it certainly didn't sound like the author was describing reaching the full potential of the bike.

Mere numbers mean nothing. It would have to be a comparative study of total number of vehicles, fatalities per accident, years driving, miles driven, weather conditions, and a whole whack of other factors only a statistician could think of. Saying more people died in cars ergo cars are as or more unsafe than motorcycles is ridiculous without context.

It sounds like we're in agreement on this.

Cite your source for this "fact". I live in Caledon, near FOTC and I see tons of bikes every single day. I'd guess it's 50/50 for gear, other than full face helmets. And no amount of gear makes up for lack of skill or judgement. And while there are certainly cruiser riders who probably should trade in their bikes for bus passes, the bikes don't lend themselves to the kind of high speed antics that have been in the press lately, so the focus is justified.

My source is empirical. I ride. I notice what others wear or don't wear around me. The vast majority of cruiser riders wear shorty helmets and t-shirts. The vast majority of sport bike riders wear full-face helmets and jackets.

I understand and appreciate your ire at this article but your counter arguments don't hold water.

And your contribution and rebuttal is what exactly?