coming to a complete stop = stall

[short stop]

Let me clarify because i confused myself reading it.

Always shift down when your coming to a stopping (normally)
Shifting down is really optional when your doing an emergency stop (One less thing to worry about and sometimes you stop faster than you can shift down (Smaller displacement bikes that cruise on 6th gear).

You can keep repeating it, but whomever taught you that is wrong. See my post above about practicing the proper way to do it. And pulling in the clutch and banging down the gears does NOT take up extra time (you're not letting the clutch out between each shift). No one is accusing you of saying that shifting during normal stops is optional.

You need to *read* what others are posting. I don't know what course you took, but I have a hard time believing that any Canada Safety Council approved course would teach what you're describing.

[meme]

You know - I give up.

If you said "I was told this but maybe what you say makes sense and I will try this from now on" or "Perhaps, let me think about it", or even "I do this but will practise this", I'd go on.

Perhaps someone knows just a wee more than you, or is preaching better stuff than you are.

But no - you are right and nothing will change your mind. Or attitude really. Even if you were told that people CAN be wrong and you could easily attribute this fault to them.

Have at it, I've tried a few times to explain where you go wrong. I couldn't care less at this point to argue/reason with you.

[DaFrEnCh-TiCkLeR]

Sushii

bang em down as your pulling on stuff

Your emergency breaking doesnt mean you will have to fully stop, what if you need to Stop then dodge a truck thats Jackknifing behind you? Kind of hard to get out of that jam on 4-5th gear.

For the Op, where you located, I'll be happy to go help you out at lighhts if I'm around your area.

[Sushii]

You can keep repeating it, but whomever taught you that is wrong. See my post above about practicing the proper way to do it. And pulling in the clutch and banging down the gears does NOT take up extra time (you're not letting the clutch out between each shift). No one is accusing you of saying that shifting during normal stops is optional.

You need to *read* what others are posting. I don't know what course you took, but I have a hard time believing that any Canada Safety Council approved course would teach what you're describing.

It is not a time issue. Anyways i will stop arguing and will move on with my life.

P.S I do not disagree with downshifting while emergency braking. We each have our own opinions.

[short stop]

It is not a time issue. Anyways i will stop arguing and will move on with my life.

Jesus H. Christ! You just tried to say it was!

Let me clarify because i confused myself reading it.

Always shift down when your coming to a stopping (normally) I have never ever said to ignore down shifting on regular basis.
Shifting down is really optional when your doing an emergency stop (One less thing to worry about and sometimes you stop faster than you can shift down (Smaller displacement bikes that cruise on 6th gear).

I don't know why I'm bothering. OP, sorry for the thread derailment. Hopefully you've at least learned something from this.

[ZX600]

Sushii, Meme is an instructor, she is right, just let it go...you can do it

[afelotreyu]

Maybe I can try helping Sushii here..

When I was doing my course the instructor did mention something similar and he did said it would be best to push down the gears to make sure you can go again if you have to.. but while we got familiar with emergency breaking it was fine not to down shift at first (it was our first time doing emergency break).

He did however told everyone that didn't downshift to downshift on the next run because of that same reason of maybe having someone behind, by the second or third exercise he was making us go into a complete stop (emergency) and then quickly go on again. So it forced everyone to down shift.

[SLaP]

Don't let it die...

Sushi, explain what you would do in an emergency situation like this.

You are travelling southbound, and are entering an intersection on a green light. You are in third gear travelling at approx 60 km/hr.
You notice a car entering the intersection, travelling Westbound. The car does not stop at the red light and proceeds into the intersection directly into your path.
You slam on "both brakes" and narrowly miss hitting the side of the car.
You then look into your mirror and notice a car traveling toward the rear of your bike, at a high rate of speed.

What would you do now?

What gear were you in?

[El Zilcho]

DONT listen to this.

Pull in on everything, and push down on everything - including your shifter as many times as it takes to get to first gear.

In hard braking most of the weight of the body will go to the front. It may not be easy to make any additional moves once the braking has started.

[El Zilcho]

What would you do now?

What gear were you in?

Imagining such scenarios only makes sense to someone who has experienced them. Otherwise it will be merely a mental speculation. Real things have many little details that make or break a mental image. For example, when braking hard he could delay the downshifting until the bike has lost most of the momentum. Another scenario would be to just squeeze the brake and hope for the best. It's one thing to go through this in one's mind, but experiencing it in real life is a whole different cup of tea. Even after being taught, the "panic instinct" can still take over.

So, what answer were you expecting? "I will be stuck in the 3rd gear, watching helplessly as the approaching car plows into the back of my bike"? Even if that's the answer you get, it doesn't mean that this is what would actually happen.

[El Zilcho]

All of this discussion reminds me of the time just after I started riding. I thought about locking the front wheel and recovering from it. Until one day, when I wanted to pull over on a highway to take a picture. I moved to the grassy shoulder just a bit too soon. Boom! and I was on the ground. So much for the recovery.

The theory of the Right Thing To Do is one thing, but practice may teach different lessons. That, which a seasoned rider could do is not always accessible to an inexperienced one. Sometimes it's better to stick to what we can do with confidence and hope for the best.

[Jayv]

If you dig around the internet you can find a study which i believe took place in Quebec where results were timed using new riders doing emergency braking with down shifting, clutch in, clutch out, not down shifting etc etc were recorded.The difference was marginal, but as far as this thread goes and considering the OP is a new rider the best advice and practice is the one being taught by all the schools in the GTA/Canada which is gearing down for emergency braking.

[SLaP]

So, what answer were you expecting? "I will be stuck in the 3rd gear, watching helplessly as the approaching car plows into the back of my bike"?

More of a question to provoke thought.

Sometimes it's better to stick to what we can do with confidence and hope for the best.

Or, alternatively we can practice scenarios (ie: emergency stopping while downshifting) so that it becomes automatic (muscle memory). Practice leads to experience.

[El Zilcho]

Or, alternatively we can practice scenarios (ie: emergency stopping while downshifting) so that it becomes automatic (muscle memory). Practice leads to experience.

It does, but there is that time when there is no experience yet. If we have to take a life-or-death action in a split of a second, it may be better to stick to what we know so far, even if it's not perfect.

People are beating down on Sushii here, but he has a point. Until the reflex of downshifting is developed, it may indeed be better to resort to just braking in a real emergency.

[short stop]

But that's the whole point - developing the muscle memory right away, while still a noob. To be honest, it's saved my hide since I began riding. That's why I'm thankful that it was taught in my course.

No one's trying to beat down on sushii - but he does a good job of deflecting and ignoring advice given by more experienced riders.

[Rotten_Ronnie]

Pssst!

(Pull in the clutch as you're stopping, that'll solve the stalling thingy)

Downshifting is tougher, let me know when you're not stalling on busy city streets anymore and we can talk about it.

Take the course, any course and you'll be glad you did.

[stormcat]

OP, aside from stalling when coming to a stop, have you thought about why you're stalling several times when attempting to launch from that stop? I'm putting money on this:

1. You're not looking where you want to go.
2. You're looking at your tach and again, not at where you want to go.

Sushii, always gear down. It takes a millisecond of your time. Your foot is right there, anyway. In an emergency braking situation, you need to have the ability to get your butt back out of there FAST! You're not going anywhere if your bike is still in 4th gear. I took the MSF in 2007. I assure you, gearing down is crucial. Picture this: you come around a blind corner and find a cow blocking your lane, and nowhere to swerve around it. You emergency stop to keep from hitting it. 3 seconds later a car comes flying around the corner and nails you because you're sitting there, moving your bike back and forth and hitting the shifter desperately trying to get the damn bike back into first gear.

[OliverK]

stormcat beat me to an important point. Many bikes don't downshift that well when stationary, and need to be rocked back and forth. Get into the practice of banging down into 1st as you come to a stop. You don't have to count, just tap it a bunch of times. A few more taps when you are already in first isn't going to matter.

NONE of this is reflex first off. We had to learn where every control was on the bike, and what to do with it. Learn it now so it BECOMES reflex.

[skip]

To the OP

When I come to a complete stop at a stop sign I stalled couple times. I Am just wondering what I did wrong ?

Not balancing the throttle and clutch properly. Pratice alot of slow speed stuff in an empty parking lot with just using the clutch and rear brake. It will help you become comfortable it the clutch more.

also a big question I need to know is , lets say I am on 4th gear and I need to QUICKLY slow down , light turns red or someone pulls the brakes infront of me , will I have the time to pull in throttle shift to 3......2....1...N? what if I shifted straight from 4th to 1st? I will probably mess up the bike and fly off ?

Pull in the clutch bang down through the gears while braking. It will be fine, you will do fine. Patrice so you can do it.

Do they teach all this in the riding course?

Yes.

Last question whats the best gear to just cruise on ?? .. lets say 60km-70km .

Depends on the bike and how its been geared, really does.

[jverlaan]

no one seems to have mentioned this so I will . You cant go strait from 4th to first as you have to hit the shifter once for each gear just like you cant pull up any harder and get the bike to go from 1st to 4th by miss shifting . It is always one gear at a time per shift. So if you are not rideing with a nice big safe zone around you and have to suddenly break hard for some thing just pull in the clutch and start tapping down on the gear lever with your left foot. If you just clutch and break you will be sitting in what ever gear you were in when you started breaking. I dont always remember what gear I am in when riding so a good clue is that when you go from 2nd gear to first gear your green neutral light will flash as you shift through neutral to first, that way you know you are not trying to start in 2nd , 3rd , or 4th. If you had to panic stop and didnt have the chance to change gears then you may have to roll the bike a little to get each gear to engage so you can downshift again ( some bikes are fussy that way ).

hope the long speach helps you out