ALWAYS insist on a written estimate!

[Snuggles1940]

Especially if you deal with dealers like Mission Cycle in Angus, Ontario. If they won't give you the information that you need, to be able to make an informed decision, DO NOT DEAL WITH THEM! Do not accept a verbal estimate because you will most likely find that the final cost will be much higher than the verbal estimate.

After you sign a "blank" work order (one without prices) you will be open to price gouging. Signing that form also makes it easy for the dealer to get a lien against your bike if you try to dispute the bill or try not to pay.

Buyer beware! Get it in writing!

[TwistedKestrel]

I was under the impression that registering a lien against your bike was *harder* if they failed to provide a written estimate.

[Declan Gunn]

Whether you sign one or not... there's a stipulation with "estimates" that you agree it is an "approximate price only" and that it "may increas or decrease at any time".

that's why they're called estimates:guesses, approximations, and not reflecting of the actual or final price.

[Brian P]

My own practical experience has been that the need for a written estimate is inversely proportional to the level of trust between both you and the shop doing the work.

I have certain shops that I will deal with because I know they won't rip me off and in turn, they know I won't stiff them. I've had those shops do extra work over and above what was in the original plan. "Did it need it?" ... "Yes!" (usually I knew this was the case anyway) - not a problem. And the converse ... same shop opted NOT to do certain work that was verbally agreed to ("Find out what's making that funny squeaking noise and fix it") because another part of the job ended up fixing that noise, so nothing else needed to be done. If you have a written estimate then you WILL be paying for that, even if it turned out not to be needed.

[Brian P]

Should also add that there are certain jobs where it is simply not possible to make an accurate estimate, until a lot of labour has gone into dismantling something and making an inventory of everything that actually needs to be replaced, and at that point, there is no turning back. The only written estimate that you can get for an engine or transmission overhaul, is one that has to be really high to make sure the shop is covered for every possibility. This is where trust in the shop/mechanic is really important.

[LiNK666]

My own practical experience has been that the need for a written estimate is inversely proportional to the level of trust between both you and the shop doing the work.

I have certain shops that I will deal with because I know they won't rip me off and in turn, they know I won't stiff them. I've had those shops do extra work over and above what was in the original plan. "Did it need it?" ... "Yes!" (usually I knew this was the case anyway) - not a problem. And the converse ... same shop opted NOT to do certain work that was verbally agreed to ("Find out what's making that funny squeaking noise and fix it") because another part of the job ended up fixing that noise, so nothing else needed to be done. If you have a written estimate then you WILL be paying for that, even if it turned out not to be needed.

which shop?

[Sushii]

I thought that whenever shops give an estimate the total price can't be 10% over what the estimate was. And if it is you can go to court or something.

[butters]

I thought that whenever shops give an estimate the total price can't be 10% over what the estimate was. And if it is you can go to court or something.

True. When the work is going to go over the written estimate a shop needs to call you and get permission to go ahead with the extra work and/or charge you extra money.

[kneedragger88]

I get asked for estimates all the time. If you ask me how much to install a chain and sprockets for instance I can nail it within a couple bucks. If you ask me how much to stop the oil smoke then its a guess at best. If you push it I will give you a astronomical quote and if we move ahead you will be pleasantly surprised likely.
Brian is right. Use a mechanic your comfortable with.
I would like to know some details regarding the OP. I have known Todd at Mission to be a stand up guy. Years ago he has done some work for our race team and I always was very happy with his work and personality.

[Brian P]

I thought that whenever shops give an estimate the total price can't be 10% over what the estimate was. And if it is you can go to court or something.

And what that means is that in a situation where an accurate estimate is not possible without a lot of disassembly and inspection (i.e. an engine or transmission overhaul), the estimate is going to be really, really high so that the mechanic can cover their butt.

As a customer, it's best to have at least some idea of what a project is going to cost before you get into it. If you expect a mechanic with a shop and a big investment in tools to give you something for next to nothing, it ain't gonna happen. Some people expect that anything on their bike can be fixed for 30 bucks and anything more is a ripoff. Doesn't work that way.

[regder]

And what that means is that in a situation where an accurate estimate is not possible without a lot of disassembly and inspection (i.e. an engine or transmission overhaul), the estimate is going to be really, really high so that the mechanic can cover their butt.

As a customer, it's best to have at least some idea of what a project is going to cost before you get into it. If you expect a mechanic with a shop and a big investment in tools to give you something for next to nothing, it ain't gonna happen. Some people expect that anything on their bike can be fixed for 30 bucks and anything more is a ripoff. Doesn't work that way.

In such a case, the customer has to be informed that the job will be charged on a straight time basis, and then the customer will usually authorize the shop to continue up to X amount at which point the shop has to contact the customer to authorize additional work. There is no real blank cheque for repair work. If the shop does not make sure that the customer authorizes the repair or is aware of the possible charges, push comes to shove, the shop will lose.

The final bill cannot exceed the authorized amount by 10%, doesn't have to be based on the original estimate, but the customer does have to authorize anything additional.

It's interesting that I haven't seen one bike shop that is careful with making sure that they do have proper authorization, or a mutual understanding of the potential costs between them and the customer. As I said, should the customer want to push the issue, the shop will lose under the law

[Declan Gunn]

The final bill cannot exceed the authorized amount by 10%, doesn't have to be based on the original estimate, but the customer does have to authorize anything additional.

Where'd you pull that "10%" from? Because its not in legislation or precedent.

You people need to start reading these work orders that you sign - SOME (not all, but some) of them say you grant them total access to whatever 'necessary and reasonable' repairs the m/c needs without the need to authorize. But something I almost always see is "This estimate does not reflect in any way the final bill amount" (or something along those lines).

It's open to interpretation... some will call you after $50, some after $500, and like B.P. said - get your work done at a shop you trust.

[butters]

Where'd you pull that "10%" from? Because its not in legislation or precedent.

http://www.search.e-laws.gov.on.ca/e...&context=#hit1

The Consumer Protection Act, 2002 provides you with rights in relation to having a motor vehicle repaired. Among other things, you have a right to a written estimate. A repairer may not charge an amount that is more than ten (10) per cent above that estimate. If you waived your right to an estimate, the repairer must have your authorization of the maximum amount that you will pay for the repairs. The repairer may not charge more than the maximum amount you authorized. In either case, the repairer may not charge for any work you did not authorize.
If you have concerns about the work or repairs performed by the repairer or about your rights or duties under the Consumer Protection Act, 2002, you should contact the Ministry of Consumer and Business Services.

[FZ1Oakville]

Declan - there is such a thing as the Motor Vehile Repair Act --- I dont know all the rules... but one is that the repair shop must provide a written estimate....the other is that the repair bill must not exceed the estimate by more that .... 10% --- it is the law --
Idem
(2) No person shall charge, for work or repairs for which an estimate was given, an amount that exceeds the estimate by more than 10 per cent. R.S.O. 1990, c. M.43, s. 4
(It was a quick look up .... read the rest http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/rep...es_90m43_e.htm)

[Fingolfin]

I think the entire issue the OP has is because he signed a blank workorder.. thats the easiest way to get ripped off


sorry OP... but im not sure what your legal options are as they will just say you signed it....


live, learn, become wiser.....


welcome to the wiserhood....
drink responsibly

[Speedtospare]

I generally dont pay attention to these people who no post count adn just join up to complain on how they get ripped off. If a member has been here for a while and has a valid complain I listen. A the time of me reading this post the OP has 8 posts.
/shrugs shoulders and walks away

[regder]

Thanks for saving me a google search at 3 in the morning. A lawyer would be better able to discern the Consumer Protection Act, but based on the part quoted, doesn't look like a shop has any way of getting around a dollar amount authorization.

http://www.search.e-laws.gov.on.ca/e...&context=#hit1

The Consumer Protection Act, 2002 provides you with rights in relation to having a motor vehicle repaired. Among other things, you have a right to a written estimate. A repairer may not charge an amount that is more than ten (10) per cent above that estimate. If you waived your right to an estimate, the repairer must have your authorization of the maximum amount that you will pay for the repairs. The repairer may not charge more than the maximum amount you authorized. In either case, the repairer may not charge for any work you did not authorize.
If you have concerns about the work or repairs performed by the repairer or about your rights or duties under the Consumer Protection Act, 2002, you should contact the Ministry of Consumer and Business Services.

[FZ1Oakville]

Especially if you deal with dealers like Mission Cycle in Angus, Ontario. If they won't give you the information that you need, to be able to make an informed decision, DO NOT DEAL WITH THEM! Do not accept a verbal estimate because you will most likely find that the final cost will be much higher than the verbal estimate.

After you sign a "blank" work order (one without prices) you will be open to price gouging. Signing that form also makes it easy for the dealer to get a lien against your bike if you try to dispute the bill or try not to pay.

Buyer beware! Get it in writing!

I agree with insisting on a written estimate..... I hate shops that dont give you detail or that think that they are doing you a favor by doing service for you --- WTF!!! Im supporting your business....and I'll only continue to do so, if you treat me well, and give me fair and proper service....... Otherwise I'll do everything to educate everyone else on your shoddy practices.....

[TLDeano]

So the price was more than you thought it would be, Im betting doing the work on your bike took longer than it they thought it would take, and your bike needed more stuff than anyone thought.
But was it done properly? Completely? And did they actually do what they said they did?
In this day and age its hard to put a price on that.
You shoulda got calls or updates tho unless you told them to just fix it .

With the OP giving absolutely no specifics, the slagging of this shop holds no water with me.

[nobbie48]

I get asked for estimates all the time. If you ask me how much to install a chain and sprockets for instance I can nail it within a couple bucks. If you ask me how much to stop the oil smoke then its a guess at best. If you push it I will give you a astronomical quote and if we move ahead you will be pleasantly surprised likely.
Brian is right. Use a mechanic your comfortable with.
I would like to know some details regarding the OP. I have known Todd at Mission to be a stand up guy. Years ago he has done some work for our race team and I always was very happy with his work and personality.

Is there anything harder to quote / estimate thanan intermittant electrical problem? Sometimes you pull a cover, a loose wire falls off and the problem is fixed in two minutes. Other times you have to check every connection and component on the bike and still you have your fingers crossed. Electical Roulette